Ah, NOW I get it. I am a lying hypocrite. My bad for not using my Republicanese dictionary more.

[DFW]

I saw a post on another thread claiming that "One cannot be democratic and conservative at the same time without lying, and being a hypocrite." Well, THAT sounds pretty absolute. Jawolhl, Herr Standartenführer! Except that I use an English dictionary, not that Standard Dictionary of Republicanese.

I am your classic conservative, at least as defined in a dictionary of the English language (as opposed to Republicanese).

I still work for the same outfit that recruited me out of college in 1975. I have been with the same wonderful woman since 1974. We have raised two solid, intelligent children who have grown up, think independently, did well in their respective colleges, and have jobs in which they earn their own living, have stable, long-term relationships, and are well-respected in their chosen fields.

I am risk-averse, and do not like to make rash, un-thought-out decisions. I have no debts. I have no addictions, not even to alcohol, religion, gambling, or nicotine. My favorite American philosopher is the 18th century Thomas Jefferson.

I am the epitome of “conservative.” Why am I a Democrat? Simple: I do not believe that having a different ethnic background, belief, or income makes one a superior or an inferior being to myself.

I refuse to let users of Republicanese define me. Maybe going a little lighter on the clichés would help the mood around here.

[multigraincracker]

1. Words are confusing.

At least perplexing.

Words are symbols, not the thing.

That is my Taoist view.

[DFW]

5. Not only symbols, though

I am no Taoist, of course.

But they are also building blocks, weapons, malleable objects that can be used to clarify, confuse, and wound.

It just depends on both the skill (or lack thereof) and intent of those who wield them.

[multigraincracker]

7. My problem with the Republicans dictionary is it

is "either, or", Like "gay" or "straight", "Black" or "White" when in it's all really gray, or a bell curve. That's just how my brain works.

[DFW]

32. They are very much the party of "either/or"

Nuance is not in the Official Dictionary of Republicanese

[Claire Oh Nette]

42. They're stuck in a narrowly framed, black and white 1950s world...

...while the rest of us gladly embrace all the ambiguity of glorious technicolor and panavision.

Unless one is white, straight, and culturally wonderbread Christain, it's all shades of gray.

[multigraincracker]

49. Not sure if White or straight are either, or.

Dig far enough in their genes and you'll find what some call a "race". Same with sexuality , probe anyones brain and there will be at least a tid bit of an attraction to a same sex person. Someone once ask John Lennon if he was gay, he said "I don't know, I haven't found a man I'm attracted too yet".

That doesn't mean you can't be at the far end of the curve, but there will always be someone above or below you on that curve. If not today, tomorrow.

[7wo7rees]

2. Hi, DFW. I'm up late and you are up early......

Very much appreciate what you say.

Hope you all get to have a nice weekend.

[DFW]

3. We are 7 hours ahead of you, don't forget!

it's 10:30 in the morning here, and we are having a late breakfast!

[7wo7rees]

9. Got it!! Will not forget. Mangia che te fa bene.....

[DFW]

11. Mangio sempre che mi fa bene--troppo, propio! n/t

[betsuni]

4. Reminds me of Meghan McCain.

She kept accusing her "The View" co-hosts of being radical liberals and they had to keep reminding her that they were individuals. That they all had family in the military. No, liberals don't all hate the military. That Catholics can be conservative about abortions and marriage and be Democrats. No, not all liberals want everyone to get abortions and don't care about family because they want to hump everyone they see. The Republican caricature of Democrats is silly, as is the caricature of Democrats being wealthy out-of-touch corporate elites.

[DFW]

6. And congratulations, by the way

That has to be the first post I have seen in months that used the word "corporate" and still made sense!

[Hekate]

8. Excellent, excellent post, DFW

Have a good weekend.

[sarchasm]

10. Nice one DFW!

Thank you.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. The European definition of conservative differs from the American even among Democrats

If I understand it, also European left and right are somewhat differently oriented compared to the USA. That's before we even get into questions about where the center is located and whether a single dimension (spectrum) is even adequate. Democrats in the US tend not to use the European sense of conservatism.

There is also the classical definition of conservatism / liberalism from the 18th and 19th centuries.

Plus there is even a thing "liberal conservatism", which is not what probably 90% of DU thinks it is. The note says "not to be confused with conservative liberalism", which is also another thing, surprisingly.



But, yes, many here including me tend to value some degree of stability and careful self-conserving behavior while looking forward to a more progressive future.

Further, nearly every single person here is advocating conservation of species, conservation of cultures, languages, and societies, and conservation of global temperature regimes. We wish to conserve the earth so that we can return what we have borrowed from those who will be the seventh generation descended from us.

So there is that word which goes to the essence of a more fundamental notion of conservatism.

[DFW]

15. One can insert all the nuances one wants, of course

It's the absolutes that bug me. "You're a lying hypocrite because I say you are." That sort of thing.

In Europe, every country has their goalposts, and they are set in jello, not granite. The "conservatives (Merkel's Party)" in Germany are to the left of Manchin, whereas in Poland and Hungary, they would embarrass Mitch McConnell. Gmany does have its extreme right (the AfD), but they are at least considered extremists publicly, and no other party wants to work with them. Merkel's party said there wasn't even a question of working with them, and instead opted to give up power and go into the opposition.

Here in Germany, there is a small, pro-business party called the Free Democrats. They call themselves "Die Liberalen," or "the liberals," though they have little in common with us. They have their nebulous goals, and are in the coming coalition with the Social Democrats and the Greens. I speak nine European languages, and let me tell you, it's different everywhere.

But leave the "-isms" by the wayside, for a moment. "Liberal" in English has its clear meaning, too. Take the Republican attitude toward gun ownership. They want anyone who wants to buy a firearm to be free to do just that--as often and as deadly as they wish. What could be more "liberal" than that? Republicans are the ultimate liberals on the subject of gun ownership. By the way, don't tell a Republican that--you don't want to be the cause of any unnecessary heart attacks.

Again, leaving the "-isms" aside, I happen to be "conservative" by nature, as laid out in my OP. Not "a conservative" as defined by Fox "News," but just the original meaning of the word, as it used to be before letting party propagandists get their hands (or pens) on it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. Yes, absolutes are example of binary thinking fallacy: all or nothing, all-good or all-bad. . . . nt

[mahina]

13. The only ones conserving anything are Democrats

Republicans are nihilists and destroyers.

[DFW]

17. Mahalo!

Spot on.

For a group of self-labeled "conservatives," the Republicans don't seem on conserving much of anything.

The Spanish Inquisition might be an exception to that, but only with them as Grand Inquisitors, of course.
As Mel Brooks put it: "Let's face it. You can't Torquemada anything."

[Snoopy 7]

14. of course you can

I'm sure the people who say ""One cannot be democratic and conservative at the same time without lying, and being a hypocrite."" are either republican or don't understand what conservative means.
1.
averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values.
2.
(in a political context) favoring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially traditional ideas.
1.
a person who is averse to change and holds traditional values.
2.
a person favoring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially traditional ideas.
Definitions from Oxford Languages

One- republicans are not conservatives, name one thing that they conserve other than conserving more money for the rich that's why they favor monopolies.
Second- the Democratic Party are the conservative they are the ones who balance the budgets and save for the future. We also save the planet, how damn conservative is that(?) how about helping the not so well off and conserving their lives... So how is a Democratic Party member not a conservative?

[genxlib]

16. Get outa my head

You just described me. Just about 10-15 years behind you and only one kid.

33 years with the same company. 27 with the missus. Plus many of the other things you describe

I even look the part as a middle age white guy with short hair, no tattoos and simple dresser. I get mistaken for being being Republican a lot.

I will say my reasons for being a democrat are probably more extensive since they also go to things like the environment. But again, that is an area that lends itself even more to the word conservative.

Ironically, my close friend that I debate with a lot is what we would call really conservative but he thinks of himself as being aligned with classical liberalism. It is maddening some times because he always trying to sway me by telling me what I should believe as a “liberal”

The definitions are fluid at best

[DFW]

18. Always beware of people who tell you what you "should" believe.

People with that kind of attitude are usually addressed as "Ayatollah."

[marble falls]

20. Other than the trivializing of Nazi fascism bit, I agree 100%.

[DFW]

24. Living in a country that had its own Ministry of Propaganda less than a century ago

I hardly find it trivializing. I find the tactic uncomfortably similar. Look up some of the early 1920s quotes of the future Propagandaminister of the Nationalsozialisten. He was heavily into both parts of their name, not just the "nah-tsee-oh-nahl" part of the equation.

[mitch96]

21. I agree.. I see my self as socially liberal and financially conservative. We are all in this

spaceship earth together. YMMV
m

[DFW]

29. Putting unfriendly labels on those who consider themselves allies

That is not only usually foolish, but usually a way to discourage allies, as well.

[Sherman A1]

22. Well, I was accused of working for some sinister international marketing cabal

because I tried to post silly food holidays to lighten up the days a bit in the cooking and baking group last year.

That darn Lemon Cream Pie Day just set whoever it was over the edge and they had to call me out.

Thankfully with the help of critic I saw the error of my ways, have spent time in the Re-Education Camps and I have been able to achieve "Proper Thought. I also do not visit that group anymore.

BTW Happy Nacho Day!...... ooops I slipped up there don't tell anyone..........

[niyad]

23. Now I know what happened to some of my favourte posts! Please keep slipping up.

[DFW]

26. I live in Germany. If i don't tell anyone it's Nacho Day

Nobody will know!

** Someone blasted you for "Lemon Cream Pie Day?" For real?

[Sherman A1]

27. Thanks

Let’s keep the international food holiday marketing cabal a tippy top secret.

[MaryMagdaline]

28. Too funny! Picturing Nacho Day in Germany ...

[DFW]

30. For the record

I don't recall anyone celebrating Sauerbraten Day in Dallas, either..........

[Hugin]

34. PIE! can be a touchy subject...

It is the only dessert where my SO and I have a court order stipulating that my dimpled darling must prepare me one Banana Cream Pie per year. I tried to get a single French Silk Pie in addition, but, at that the judge, both attorneys, the jury, and the bailiff loaded me in an ox cart destined for the village square. Only a last second stay from the Pillsbury Dough Boy saved me.

It's on appeal.

[Sherman A1]

37. I feel your pain

I believe I may have seen you passing by in your oxcart ride while I was in the Re-Education Camp. We were told that the beatings would continue until morale improved.

[Hugin]

45. That was nothing compared to the Thanksgiving Pecan Pie crisis of 'aught six...

Polite people don't talk about that day.

[Sherman A1]

54. Ah!

The troubled times in which we live……it’s just enough to make one ill tempered and out of sorts.

[niyad]

25. KNR

[lastlib]

31. I like John Kenneth Galbraith's explanation of the difference between liberals and conservatives:

"A liberal does the wrong thing for the right reason. A conservative does the wrong thing for no reason at all." --JKG

[DFW]

33. I would update that, as it uses definitions from another era.

Democrats sincerely want to do the right thing, and fail far too often.
Republicans sincerely want to do the wrong thing, and succeed far too often.

[FakeNoose]

36. This is so true

... and the definitions of "right" and "wrong" are a moving target, especially in the post-Reagan USA.

[Sherman A1]

38. Precisely and well said

hits the nail on the head.

[NoMoreRepugs]

35. Trying to figure out what in your "bio" makes u a

classic conservative?
I’m 72, white, no addictions other than my joy in seeing my granddaughter, a 1%er in terms of assets and have been a liberal Democrat since campaigning for McGovern.

Not being a jerk here, just trying to understand. Primarily because I have zero idea today what a conservative believes in.

[Sherman A1]

39. Conservatives today believe in a couple of things

but it comes down to "Me First" and "My way or the highway".

[panader0]

40. "In my second visit with Thomas Jefferson, we did have a long chat about his life."

You got lucky there pal. Not many people still living have chatted with him.

[DFW]

46. Well, in all fairness, that was my fictitious twin, Ro-Bair

He was the one who actually got to chat with Jefferson. At least he wrote it all down for posterity!

[malletgirl02]

41. Married vs Single People

So what do you consider liberal? You you consider single people inferior to married people?

[Backseat Driver]

43. Please explain your "conservative" handling of any downhill periods of your life

If I were to explain my life since the 70s, I'd more describe that I also have always tried to have balance in my life. So surely you've had rough spots too? I never thought to be wealthy but comfortable, wealthy in the things money could not buy. But in so doing, I find my senior years quite different and actually painful and disenfranchising; my experience leads me to think that there are many doing far worse as well, for which I'd have plenty of empathy and compassion but now so little for those doing so much at the top of the heap where nothing is unaffordable.

Different things: female gender with a spouse of 51 years this month; different employers over the years; introvert; non-traditional 2-year PT student with a no-debt degree that took 5 years to complete. I've always lived in diverse neighborhoods, quite frankly because I enjoy that diversity and it's what this family could afford. So what went wrong as I navigated life? Maybe shame and constant frustration. I considered myself a "conservative" Democrat as well, so I suppose it's nice to hear how "lucky" you've been at a way more lofty altitude where you are more immune, insulated, to the policies and practice of the group-think Orwellian GOP - It's not that I did not see trends in society by the time I was in elementary school though all four of our parents were poor life-models with an bent of pulling one up by one's own bootstraps; they didn't believe in supportive nurturance; just Jesus! I think everyone's experience and ongoing story in life may vary and one shouldn't hold up one's oh so virtuous values - sure gives credence to what one counselor told us was the fatal flaw - "hubris."

[DFW]

51. Downhill periods/rough spots were definitely mostly medical issues

My parents went through long and tragic deaths, as did my wife's father did. Remember Göring's "Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?" My wife's dad WAS that poor slob on a farm. He was drafted off his farm into World War II at age 17. He did not return home in one piece.

Heart issues, including a very near miss, and an infarction were my adventures. My wife had cancer twice, including a bout with a rare form of cancer known here in Germany as "der Mörder," in English, "The Murderer." Not exactly an encouraging diagnosis. Her luck was that the oncologist said he had never seen this cancer detected so early. Usually, it is so silent that it only is detected when it is too late. As it is, she was kept in the hospital for a month after her 6 hour operation. When it was touch and go, in both of our cases, we had support of family, friends and, in my case, an understanding employer. My wife's German employer was furious with her for "getting sick" and missing 7 months of work, but couldn't fire her without getting in hot water with his own higher-ups, and possibly German law. He mobbed her for 11 years after, though. My American employer said, in both my case and my wife's, "don't worry about us, take all the time you need." I realize this is not the attitude of the typical employer in the USA, but it does happen to be the attitude of mine.

As for neighborhoods, I've lived in what was considered to be a wilderness (dirt roads only, asphalt came later), a room in a small apartment in Spain, a dorm room shared with two friends in Philadelphia, a tiny apartment rural Massachusetts, and then one in Gladbeck (Ruhr area of Germany), and then, when the girls were born, a somewhat more spacious apartment near Düsseldorf. We finally got to move into a house of our own eight years later, when I could afford it. I went through a lot of "living arrangements" before I was able to afford and move into the place we are in now. My conservative nature prevented me from trying to live in some place beyond what I knew I could afford, that's all. Some people think they have to show off some kind of extravagance, be it house, car, whatever. Many go deeply into debt to be able to do so. Whatever floats their boat. I don't judge, but I will not apologize for saying, "that ain't my style." As for your "oh so virtuous values," that my be your problem, but its not mine. My values are my values. If they are bad or good in someone else's eyes, that's their issue, not mine. I'm of the Popeye school of thought on that: "I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam."

[Autumn]

44. Other than being retired, I my huband of 46 years and I have raised three intelligent children

who have grown up, think independently, did well in their respective colleges, including their children. My 22 year old grandaughter just got her BA in Microbiology and is now going for her Masters. My Daughters and SIL's all have jobs in which they earn their own living, they are all very well off have and stable, long-term relationships, are well-respected in their chosen fields and they are raising wonderful intellegen children. Despite all that there is not a conservative among them. One SIL considered himself a Republican for a while but Mitch and Trump cured that

Very similar to yours. Ournhomes are paid for, we enjoy our hobbies, I am an Almost Athiest and enjoy an occasional glass of wine. don't smoke. And here I am a proud radical flaming Democratic Socialist. Not a damn thing in your post makes you conservative. You may not let users of Republicanese define you but you are attempting to define others.

[DFW]

47. Quite the opposite. I refuse to let others define me

And to answer your post, I do so again. Except for the "Almost Atheist" part. For us, you'd have to remove the "almost" part.

Congrats on the granddaughter, by the way. At ages 3 and 1, ours are a little young to be at that stage of their education.

[bigtree]

48. different from political conservatism

...which is essentially a defense of corporatism and opposition to social spending.

Not much opposition to your conservative lifestyle out there.

[DFW]

52. As far as orthodox Republicanism goes

They are the ones who hijacked the term"conservative." They don't own it as far as I am concerned. I don't call them "conservatives" any more than I call them "conservationists." Right wing extremists who defend power and privilege, yes, but that is about as far as I would go. I/we just do our thing, to the extent that we can, and within our means. We tried to raise our daughters to do the same. So far so good. I don't get where that suddenly transforms someone into a lying hypocrite, but maybe I've been living away for too long.

[mcar]

50. No one has the right to define you, DFW

[DFW]

53. I quite agree. Obviously some do not.

Like Rick Nelson sang:

But it's alright now
I learned my lesson well
You see, you can't please everyone
So you got to please yourself.

Or the chorus of a more obscure song:

I said, "no thanks, I'll go my own way."
They said, "Kid, you got to be crazy."