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Shit.....NOT GUILTY. (Original Post) a kennedy Nov 2021 OP
Murderer walking free. FoxNewsSucks Nov 2021 #1
NO! phylny Nov 2021 #2
Un real!!!! argh! consider_this Nov 2021 #3
Judge is ecstatic dalton99a Nov 2021 #4
I think I hate his demeanor more then anything...... a kennedy Nov 2021 #15
Lord help us from more humpers... consider_this Nov 2021 #5
+10000000000000000 Celerity Nov 2021 #22
Not surprised. BlackSkimmer Nov 2021 #6
Welcome to America, y'all Mr. Scorpio Nov 2021 #7
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scottie Mom Nov 2021 #8
Of EVERYTHING??? Rocknation Nov 2021 #9
yes, not guilty on all counts Celerity Nov 2021 #23
More fake crying. vanlassie Nov 2021 #10
I know, DAMN sickening. a kennedy Nov 2021 #16
UnFUCKING believable. nt. Tammie Nov 2021 #11
That "judge" is more proof that America needs radical reform to it's judicial system. Dawson Leery Nov 2021 #12
As in all professions, there are some bad judges and bad lawyers. Ocelot II Nov 2021 #21
not surprising given the wording of the WI provocation statute Amishman Nov 2021 #13
Sea-lions everywhere will rejoice Torchlight Nov 2021 #14
What does sealioning have to do with this? Celerity Nov 2021 #24
The discussions I've stumbled across about the trial involved one or more of them Torchlight Nov 2021 #29
I understand that, but a sealion is simply a troll who badgers for more and more and more evidence, Celerity Nov 2021 #30
Well, now it's open season Bettie Nov 2021 #17
+1 Auggie Nov 2021 #20
and it's max bonus points if the whites are LGBTQ or LW or even moderately Democratic in orientation Celerity Nov 2021 #31
The families can still sue him as in the O.J. Simpson case. Ocelot II Nov 2021 #18
Sure. And get a piece of paper judgement fescuerescue Nov 2021 #27
Maybe, maybe not. Ocelot II Nov 2021 #28
He would indeed lose the go fund money fescuerescue Nov 2021 #32
Zimmerman Part 2 Catherine Vincent Nov 2021 #19
BOOOOOOOO!!!!! Initech Nov 2021 #25
The prosecution did a terrible job fescuerescue Nov 2021 #26

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
12. That "judge" is more proof that America needs radical reform to it's judicial system.
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 02:16 PM
Nov 2021

Judges need shorter tenure, high standards for lawyers, and far fewer law schools.

Ocelot II

(115,740 posts)
21. As in all professions, there are some bad judges and bad lawyers.
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 02:27 PM
Nov 2021

Most of them are not. But in WI, as in many jurisdictions, judges are elected, and once elected they are hard to get rid of (like bad cops). I don't know whether this particular judge has a reputation for being a screwball or if this was a one-off trial where he finally got a chance to let his freak flag fly, but sadly there's not much that can be done.

The problem isn't so much that there are bad judges and lawyers (or bad cops, doctors, senators, etc.); it's that in almost all professions there are very few effective mechanisms for evaluating and removing the inevitable bad ones.

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
13. not surprising given the wording of the WI provocation statute
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 02:17 PM
Nov 2021

once the drone video of his running from Rosenbaum was out, it became exceptionally difficult to get anything to stick

WI 939.48

(2) Provocation affects the privilege of self-defense as follows:
(a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person’s assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.
(b) The privilege lost by provocation may be regained if the actor in good faith withdraws from the fight and gives adequate notice thereof to his or her assailant.
(c) A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.



So pointing his rifle at someone, his unwanted presence there, being armed in general, putting out fires, etc - all of this would cause him to lose the privilege of self defense under section (a)

The problem is section (b) says that that privilege is regained by withdrawing / fleeing, which it is pretty clear on video that he did.

Now section (c) says if the provoking actions were done with the intent to bait an attack and allow the provoker to cause bodily harm, they cannot claim self defense. I know we all are thinking 'yes, the little shit did!'. The problem is proving intent in court is really really difficult. Other than a few tidbits (like the stupid tiktok video about trying to be famous), there just isn't nearly enough evidence to prove intent to the degree required by the law. Compounding that issue are KR's documented examples of giving aid, putting our fires, and his connections to the town despite not living there - all of these together give a counter-narrative to explain his presence.


The video seems to satisfy section b, and that's all he really needed

Torchlight

(3,342 posts)
14. Sea-lions everywhere will rejoice
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 02:17 PM
Nov 2021

and their guess of a coin-flip will now be evidence of their vast intelligence.

Torchlight

(3,342 posts)
29. The discussions I've stumbled across about the trial involved one or more of them
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 03:00 PM
Nov 2021

Maybe my luck and timing has been bad, but I have a hunch there's going to be a lot of post-verdict pats-on-their-own-backs in the coming days.

That's all.

Celerity

(43,419 posts)
30. I understand that, but a sealion is simply a troll who badgers for more and more and more evidence,
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 03:12 PM
Nov 2021

even when more than sufficient evidence is supplied. I have seen (granted I am not omniscient, lol) little of that in regards to the Rittenhouse trial.

Bettie

(16,110 posts)
17. Well, now it's open season
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 02:18 PM
Nov 2021

because even if you kill white people, it's cool as long as you're a right wing tool.

Celerity

(43,419 posts)
31. and it's max bonus points if the whites are LGBTQ or LW or even moderately Democratic in orientation
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 03:14 PM
Nov 2021

Ocelot II

(115,740 posts)
18. The families can still sue him as in the O.J. Simpson case.
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 02:20 PM
Nov 2021

I feel bad for the victims' families more than anything.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
27. Sure. And get a piece of paper judgement
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 02:43 PM
Nov 2021

This 18 year old kid doesn't have the massive assets that OJ had.

A chapter 7 filing before signing a bunch of book deals will negate any civil liability.

He get's his credit dinged for a couple years that's all.

Ocelot II

(115,740 posts)
28. Maybe, maybe not.
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 02:53 PM
Nov 2021

Not sure what the rule is in WI but in my state a judgment lien is good for 10 years and can be renewed. Of course he could file bankruptcy, but then he wouldn't get to keep all that nice Gofundme money and whatever other goodies come his way from the right-wingers; he'd be effectively broke and unable to milk his new-found MAGAt hero status for a long time. No amount of money is enough to compensate the victims' families or the person who was injured, but a finding by a jury that he was at fault is worth something.

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