Can the families of those who were murdered/wounded by

[raccoon]

Rattenhouse (sic) bring a civil suit against him?

[FoxNewsSucks]

1. God I hope so

He may not be rich and famous like OJ Simpson, but Slaughterhouse and his enablers should be sued into a lifetime of poverty.

[Ocelot II]

2. Yes, and I'm sure they will. That's what happened to O.J. Simpson following his acquittal,

which was just as bogus. The burden of proof is different in a civil suit - preponderance of the evidence - so acquittal in the criminal trial doesn't preclude a civil lawsuit. Whether Rittenhouse has any money to recover is another question - I think he got a lot of Gofundme money - but at least they could have the satisfaction of holding him responsible in some way.

[milestogo]

27. Exactly.

[fescuerescue]

29. But OJ had money

this 18 year? Not a nickel.

This is his likely game plan:

File Ch 7 bankruptcy.
Wipes his credit cards and legal debt.
wipes any liability to the families as they will be listed as possible debtors
Loses any assets. Like his rifle and maybe beat up old car.

6 months later his case is closed.

Then sign the book and movie deals.

[Ocelot II]

34. A judgment creditor can place a lien on property, and that debt

is not normally dischargeable in bankruptcy.

[fescuerescue]

45. Yes but for unsecured debt

That's is easily removed in bankruptcy. It's just a motion that is always granted.

And a civil judgement is unsecured.

And from what I can tell. He has no property.

[Effete Snob]

55. Don't forget the lawyers who like to work for free

People get a weird idea of how the legal profession works because of the way that insurance works.

They have this idea that there is an abundance of lawyers who work for free, and don't quite get that, yeah, for a lot of stuff, there is an insurance company standing behind the defendant who will pretty much pay nuisance value for pretty much any plausible claim.

Someone hit you with their car and you got hurt and want $20k? No problem. If you were in a car, and it got it by someone else's car, then someone else's insurance company is going to pay $20k just to get rid of the claim. They are not going to spend $50k litigating to find out whether you really got hurt to the tune of $20k. Show some reasonable documentation, match it to their standard payout chart, and, boom, claim done.

Slip and falls, car accidents... there's a bunch of ways that people get hurt day-in, day-out on the premises of or through the instrumentality of, an insured person or company.

But people see these ads on TV for "We get our clients millions and you don't have to pay unless we win!" and they think every legal claim fits that mold.

Likewise there are some sorts of claims, like civil rights claims, that have legal fees built in. So, a lawyer can balance the complexity/merits of your case against the prospect of getting paid.

Finally, doing certain kinds of public service legal work can defer student loan payments.

But, yeah, you go find the young up-and-coming lawyer with $150k in student loans who is looking forward to spending weeks of time out of the next year not getting paid in order to get a judgment against somebody with no money.

[treestar]

53. Judgment for a thing like this

may not be dischargeable in bankruptcy.

[fescuerescue]

59. But it almost always is

It's not fine, it's not a tax. It's not a student loan. It's not the government punishing anyone. In fact such a civil judgement isn't a punishment at all.

It's reimbursement for damages. Those are discharged every single day in bankruptcy court.

They would have to go for not JUST "negligence" but "Gross negligence".

That's a REALLY long shot with a not-guilty verdict in the pocket.

here's what one lawyer says about it:

https://www.pocono-lawyers.com/personal-injury-law/wrongful-death-faq#9

[treestar]

66. you're right

section 523 of Title 11 -

(9)for death or personal injury caused by the debtor’s operation of a motor vehicle, vessel, or aircraft if such operation was unlawful because the debtor was intoxicated from using alcohol, a drug, or another substance;

So it goes no further than that. He wasn't drunk driving.

[brooklynite]

40. The OJ Simpson civil trial was based on a Wrongful Death charge...

...the Kyle Rittenhouse criminal trial established fairly clearly (from a Wisconsin legal perspective) that the deaths weren't wrongful.

[Ocelot II]

41. But the standard of proof is different in a civil case. Also, not everyone is dead.

The injured guy might have a better case for negligence, which requires only a finding that the defendant failed to exercise ordinary care under the circumstances.

[fescuerescue]

46. That's possible

But I think it has to be gross negligence.

Ultimately, suing poor people is NOT a path to riches.

[treestar]

68. true, though maybe there's a way to find insurance covered it

We used to get homeowner's insurance to pay for injuries caused by minors - and he's a minor when the injury took place.

[Zeitghost]

57. Mr. Grosskreutz

Killed any chance at a successful civil action when he testified that KR did not raise his gun and shoot until he drew and pointed a Glock at him.

The footage of Huber beating him with a skateboard isn't much better.

[BannonsLiver]

7. You mean like when the Goldman family won a massive civil judgment against OJ after he was let off?

[Deuce]

18. You can't be serious...

[ElementaryPenguin]

32. Right - the guy with the AR-15 DEFENDS himself against the unarmed. WTF?!!

I suppose if you drive up in a tank - you can also plead self defense against the unarmed.

So FUCKING STUPID!!!!!!!!

[Zeitghost]

64. The possession

Of a rifle doesn't make 9mm bullets or skateboard trucks bounce off you. The prosecution tried to make the same flawed argument and suggested that we sometimes must take beatings. The law clearly disagrees. That your means of self defense is more effective or efficient than the item with which someone is attacking you does not negate your right to self defense.

[ismnotwasm]

19. Sigh.

Yes, they can

[MineralMan]

22. Nonsense. Anyone can sue anyone.

You are woefully incorrect.

[MineralMan]

31. But, you see, you came in here and said a flat NO.

Clearly, that is not correct. They can sue if they want to. Will they win? Perhaps they will. You don't know, and neither do I.

Not a good start, I'm afraid.

[The Magistrate]

26. You're Very Cute

A verdict of wrongful death can be sought independent of criminal liability. Another jury might well take a different view of whether self-defense occurred, especially given a preponderance of evidence standard for the plaintiff's case to prevail, rather than the beyond reasonable doubt a prosecutor faces. The limitation to further action would seem to be a quirk in Wisconsin law limiting a parent's liability for a minor's actions unless minor was obeying the parent. It is laughably small for a wrongful death award.

[Effete Snob]

15. OJ had assets worth going after

That is why he was romping around hotel rooms in Las Vegas making cash deals on sports memorabilia.

[BannonsLiver]

42. That's true.

The OP had asked if they could file a civil suit, which they can. It’s chances of success are remote. Though on the assets end I would expect Rittenhouse to monetize this to great effect at gun shows etc., so at least in the short term he will likely have significant income.

[Effete Snob]

44. There are ways to separate oneself from income like that

Plus, the fantasy of suing someone for everything they have and leaving them with nothing is pretty much just that. There are limits to how much of someone's income you can attach or how much and what kind of assets you can seize.

If you are ever in serious debt, buy the biggest house you can afford in Texas and move into it.

[EX500rider]

50. "to monetize this to great effect at gun shows etc." ? eh?

How would that work, have you been to a gun show, they have tables where dealers sell firearms, ammo and outdoor equipment, not high paid guests speakers.

[WarGamer]

4. anyone can sue anyone...

How successful the suit is... that's another matter.

[brooklynite]

5. What aspect of civil rights law would apply?

[WarGamer]

6. +1000 nt

[BannonsLiver]

9. Whatever it is, it apparently worked pretty well for those folks.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/05/us/civil-jury-finds-simpson-liable-in-pair-of-killings.html




And read more carefully. It's CIVIL SUIT not CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT, or do you not understand the difference?

[iemanja]

10. It doesn't have to be a civil rights issue

They would need to show damages with a preponderance of the evidence.
There are all kinds of civil suits that have nothing to do with civil rights.

[Effete Snob]

14. A 'civil suit' - i.e. not a criminal trial. An ordinary lawsuit

I'm not seeing "civil rights" in the OP. You might want to clean your glasses.

As has been discussed extensively before, Rittenhouse has no assets worth going after in a civil suit.

[Ocelot II]

35. He has a bunch of Gofundme money. Maybe a lot of that will go to his lawyers,

but the MAGAts will keep him well-funded. And a civil judgment can result in a lien on property that doesn't go away.

[Effete Snob]

37. He doesn't own any property

Whether he, personally, has "a bunch of Gofundme money" sounds like another one of those "things everybody knows."

You know, for a fact, that there is a large amount of money that is his, personally, and not held by some trust or designated fund managed by counsel? It's right there in his personal bank account?

[Ocelot II]

38. I don't know anything for sure, including who actually holds the money.

I'm just pointing out that he might not be completely without assets, and that regardless, there might be some benefit to filing a civil action against him.

[Tommy Carcetti]

24. Civil suit, not civil rights.

Wrongful death.

[milestogo]

30. Civil suit - over wrongful death.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

56. The family of Huber is represented by a prominent civil rights law firm

REFER TO THIS POST IN ANOTHER THREAD

If you go to the source link in the other thread, there is an embedded link to the suit, so you can peruse it and see for yourself.

[GoodRaisin]

62. Yeah, none.

Probably just ordinary murder law.

[LiberatedUSA]

8. Just answered on MSNBC. A civil suit won't go anywhere.

[Ocelot II]

39. Did they say why?

[LiberatedUSA]

43. They can file it, but the expert didn't feel it would result in a favorable outcome.

[Ocelot II]

47. Why? What are the legal claims they thought wouldn't work?

[BannonsLiver]

11. Yes they can.

Whether or not they can win such a suit? Total long shot.

[Jacson6]

13. They can bring a civil lawsuit against him and his parents.

He was under of 18 so his parents can be held liable, too.

[Effete Snob]

17. Parental liablity in Wisconsin is limited to $5k

And Kyle doesn't have any assets worth going after.

The point of a lawsuit is to get money.

In order for that to happen, the people you are suing have to HAVE money (or other assets) worth going after.

It is a pointless exercise otherwise.

[treestar]

49. He could one day, though

And having a huge judgment against you that you can't pay means you'll never get a loan.

[Effete Snob]

51. And the lawyer is paid how?

Oh, oh, I know. One of those pro bono lawyers out of the goodness of their heart and lack of any need for income themselves is going to litigate a case because, well, someday this schmuck might want a loan?

How many hours would you estimate this lawyer is going to spend on getting paid "one day"?

How much of your job do you do free, for lawyers, who did good stuff for months for nothing?

[treestar]

52. There would be notoriety

Some lawyers will find a way to make something of that. Michael What's his name.

[Effete Snob]

58. Even he thought there as a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow

Avenatti was a straight up crook, who dug a deeper hole for his client than she already was in, and landed one dumb schmuck in jail (John Fry ended up with five years for leaking Cohen's bank information to Avenatti).

No. "Notoriety" don't pay the bills. Plus, if you have a lawyer who wants your case for "notoriety", you should RUN FAST AWAY. Your lawyer should be working for YOU, not themselves.

[treestar]

67. thanks for recalling his name

The client is already notorious in these cases. But it's not like there are no crazy lawyers. Orly Taitz, etc., Ghouliani. I don't know if it paid any bills. Maybe they are independently wealthy and can afford to act like loons in a court.

[Celerity]

16. All the lawyers on MSNBC just said that a civil suit is likely doomed to fail

[Patton French]

20. Absolutely

But definitely an uphill battle. KR was a minor at the time and there's a limit of liability for the parents.

[DVRacer]

23. I don't about Wisconsin

In my state and many others if a jury finds self defense you are shielded from liability.

[Ocelot II]

36. In a criminal case, yes, but if he's sued for negligence that's a different question.

Also, the burden of proof is different in a civil case.

[fescuerescue]

25. Sure. And get a piece of paper judgement

He's no OJ with hundreds of millions.

He's not working for the Feds.
He's not working for a Fortune 500.

He's a broke ass 18 year with no assets.

He'll probably do a ch 7 filing soon. It will ding his credit for a few years.

[Froggyproggy]

33. Short answer is yes.

Painful answer is it won’t work. There’s too much video of him being pursued and attacked giving him the out of “self defense”.

[treestar]

48. Yes

And the burden of proof is lower, so they could prevail.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

54. Kindly refer to this post

LINK TO DETAILS OF SUIT FILED IN AUGUST

[Effete Snob]

63. What does that post have to do with suing Rittenhouse?

Rittenhouse is not even a defendant in that suit.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.95983/gov.uscourts.wied.95983.1.0.pdf

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF WISCONSN
MILWAUKEE DIVISION

JOHN HUBER, in his individual capacity
and as Personal Representative of the
ESTATE OF ANTHONY HUBER,

Plaintiff,

v.

DAVID G. BETH, in his individual and
official capacity as Kenosha County Sheriff,

DANIEL G. MISKINIS, in his individual
and official capacity as the former Chief of
Police for the Kenosha Police Department,
ERIC LARSEN, in his official capacity as
the acting Chief of Police for the Kenosha
Police Department, JOHN DOE POLICE
OFFICERS of the Kenosha Police
Department and Kenosha County Sheriff’s
Department, CITY OF KENOSHA, and
COUNTY OF KENOSHA,

----

Did you even read that post? It's a suit against the city for failing to protect Huber from Rittenhouse. It will go nowhere and is non-responsive to the OP.

[Kaleva]

60. What is Rittenhouse's net worth? Probably not much.

[madville]

61. It would be a gamble, they could lose and be liable

For his legal fees which could potentially be hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Deminpenn]

65. Yes,

that's what the Goldman family did after OJ Simpson was acquitted and won.

[Zeitghost]

69. True

But fortunately for the the Brown and Goldman families, Nicole and Ron weren't on seen on film assaulting OJ. That might have had a small effect on the judgement.