The whole "self defense" argument has been bastardized over the past decade

[D_Master81]

Ever since George Zimmerman walked the self defense argument continues to be brought up at these trials and to me has skewed far from its intent. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for someone having the right to defend themselves. But ever since Zimmerman you can apparently go out in public strapped with a gun, even approach others and when they fight back you say “I had to shoot them they were going for my gun.” Of course they were!!! You have a gun and they don’t know you! Do they not get to defend themselves? If the guys in Georgia walk I’ll lose my damn mind.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

1. I agree.

Now it's like, "It's not my fault! The other person got close to me, so I was afraid they'd harm me with the gun THAT I BROUGHT THERE!"

Edit:
Never mind that everyone there was involved in an illegal act because it was deemed unlawful assembly at that point.
So that's like trespassing, but the trespasser who brings a gun is allowed to shoot the resident who tries to disarm him because it's supposedly "self defense" if that happens! The resident MIGHT try to shoot the trespasser with his own gun, after all!

[Hoyt]

2. I think we might see some law changes from all this, although

it’ll be slow in red states.

Rube state Georgia clarified its “citizen arrest” laws after the three klansmen hunted Arbery down and murdered him.

[rurallib]

5. disagree - I think the crazies will double down

The whole "get tough on crime" was one of the prime issues that Repubs rode into power in state leges. Can't imagine they would ever go backwards on it.

[NullTuples]

3. It's designed that way, to support white supremacy.

[underpants]

4. Yep and gerrymandering is going to keep it that way

At the state and local level.

[Sympthsical]

6. You're arguing for pre-emptive attack against someone with a gun

In areas where open carry is legal, mere possession is not justification for attack.

If someone has a gun, but is not threatening anyone with it - and possession is not a legal threat in open carry states - you do not have a right to attack that person. Doing so is not self-defense. It is assault, and the person has a right to defend themselves against it.

I don't think the assholes in Georgia will walk.

[live love laugh]

7. A gun is 100x more lethal than a skateboard. This "fear for your life" defense is ludicrous. nt

[Kaleva]

12. To use self defense, you don't have to just fear for your life.

Fear of great bodily harm justifies its use according to WI law.

[maxsolomon]

15. Hence the Zimmerman defense

Hence the McMichael defense.

Hence the defense of any number of unprosecuted DGU killings.

Someone hits you, pushes you, and you have a gun, you get to shoot them dead.

[ManiacJoe]

16. Lethal force does not come in steps like nonlethal force does.

Once you move from non-lethal to lethal, all lethal weapons are at the same level (clubs, edged weapons, firearms).

All club-type objects applied to the head/neck are considered lethal weapons, including skateboards and golf clubs and baseball bats. At that point any lethal weapon can be used to stop the lethal attack by any lethal weapon.

[maxsolomon]

8. One man's open carry is another man's brandishing.

Last edited Sat Nov 20, 2021, 12:24 AM - Edit history (1)

The presence of a adult man (or several adult men) wearing tactical gear and carrying an MSSA with his finger NEAR the trigger is intimidating and threatening to some.

But as we know all too well nowadays, it's perfectly legal to walk around like that, hell, it's even patriotic to many. "No 'fringements!"

If you find it intimidating, well, tough shit, Libtard.

[Kaleva]

13. But in some jurisdictions, one has to prove intent to intimidate.

"“Brandish” means “to point, wave about, or display in a threatening manner with the intent to induce fear in another person.” MCL 750.222(c). This means that the prosecutor has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person with the firearm was trying to frighten someone else by his or her handling or display of the gun on purpose. This would not cover situations where someone was merely removing the handgun from the holster to examine it. However, the intent to brandish could be implied if the person was yelling loudly or otherwise deliberately drawing attention to himself while the gun was displayed. This can also cover a situation where someone is arguing with someone else and he opens his jacket to display the gun in his holster in a menacing manner. Brandishing does NOT require that the person must actually point the gun at someone. In fact, pointing the gun at someone could lead to more serious criminal charges:"

https://www.monroecountylawyers.com/blog/2021/05/what-are-the-penalties-for-brandishing-a-firearm-in-michigan/

[maxsolomon]

14. Yep, aware of all that. It's hard to prove intent to threaten. It's not hard to imply a threat.

Open carry in itself is an implied threat to a would-be assailant. Groups of armed men in pickup trucks parading through your liberal city is an implied threat. Trump implied that it he wanted a violent assault on the Capital. Mob Bosses imply that they'd like this or that rival killed.

You don't come right out and say it. It's all nice and legal.

There was a BLM protest in Sequim WA, mostly moms & teens, and yahoos who thought it was Antifa showed up with guns and DOGS to confront them. Should the moms & teens have been threatened by that? Perfectly legal to carry guns and have your dog with you.

[Johonny]

9. The victim can never argue for self-defense because they are dead

so it's always a biased defense. The other person simply cannot tell the jury their side of the story.

[maxsolomon]

17. Michael Reinoehl told Vice News it was self-defense

And Trump's DOJ sent US Marshals to shoot him down in the street the next morning.

[Skittles]

10. the problem is, they're taking the words of murderers at face value

because their victims are DEAD

[keithbvadu2]

11. "I had to shoot them they were going for my gun."

Is it normal training that you get close enough that the suspect can grab your gun?

"sarcasm" ???