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Fri Nov 19, 2021, 10:40 PM

So let me get this straight:

White teenager with a loaded AR-15 crosses state lines and murders protestors in cold blood because he was obsessed with Call Of Duty. Starts spouting MAGA catch phrases and NRA talking points while hanging out with noted white supremacists. He gets a get out of jail free card because the judge is also a member of the MAGA cult and 3 right wing members of Congress competing over who gets to hire him as an intern.

Meanwhile an innocent black man gets accused of using a fake $20 by a racist convenience store clerk = instant death penalty. No trial necessary!

Fuck, I give up sometimes.

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply So let me get this straight: (Original post)
Initech Nov 2021 OP
asiliveandbreathe Nov 2021 #1
Ohiya Nov 2021 #2
Initech Nov 2021 #3
llashram Nov 2021 #4
Zeitghost Nov 2021 #5
PDT69 Nov 2021 #6
Jose Garcia Nov 2021 #7
BlackSkimmer Nov 2021 #13
uponit7771 Nov 2021 #8
Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #9
uponit7771 Nov 2021 #10
Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #12
uponit7771 Nov 2021 #14
Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #15
uponit7771 Nov 2021 #16
Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #17
uponit7771 Nov 2021 #18
Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #19
uponit7771 Nov 2021 #20
Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #21
uponit7771 Nov 2021 #23
Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #24
Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #22
malaise Nov 2021 #11

Response to Initech (Original post)

Fri Nov 19, 2021, 10:45 PM

1. Never Give Up..Celtics NBA player Tatum..tattoo on back of his left calf..n/t

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Response to Initech (Original post)

Fri Nov 19, 2021, 10:47 PM

2. I can't stop thinking of Tamir Rice tonight.

12 year old African American with a toy gun killed by the police in Cleveland a few years ago

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Response to Ohiya (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 19, 2021, 10:49 PM

3. Or Philando Castillo.

The guy who was murdered by a cop in front of his pregnant wife. Ain't no justice.

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Response to Initech (Original post)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 01:25 AM

4. ++

ain't Amerika grand sometimes... yet while the nationalists are making waves and noise like the George Floyd murder I still hope decent people will carry the day. I got to believe that. After witnessing, in Georgia as a child, the consequence of a black man not properly respecting the white massa to today with the Arbery trial in Georgia Amerika is showing its yellow racist spine of cowardice, again... If those three walk, Amerikkka has come full circle in my life and is continuing the 300 years of a racist tradition and culture of this shit based on skin colour.

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Response to Initech (Original post)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 01:34 AM

5. That's one way to spin it

It's not consistent with the facts, but that doesn't seem to matter around here anymore. KR is a "them" and must be found guilty in spite of a mountain of evidence that he was attacked and reacted in self defense.

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Response to Initech (Original post)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 01:48 AM

6. What's with this being stuck on...

 

Crossing state lines stuff? He didn't cross state lines with a firearm. Kenosha was like 20 minutes away and his dad lives there. KR had as much right to be there breaking curfew as anyone else.

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Response to Initech (Original post)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 01:52 AM

7. He didn't cross state lines with the gun

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/nov/15/viral-image/kyle-rittenhouses-mother-did-not-bring-him-kenosha/

If you are that confused on this simple fact, perhaps you need to step back and reevaluate your opinion on the whole case.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 08:43 AM

13. I've learned there's a lot of ignorance on this board.

This silly canard of him crossing state lines with a gun is just one example.

Iíve also seen three DUers who believe Rittenhouse shot black men, not white men.

It astounds me.

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Response to Initech (Original post)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 08:27 AM

8. K&R, So its legal for 17 yr olds to open carry AR-15s in Wisconsin ?!

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 08:30 AM

9. Yes.

 

Also for reference; Almost every state has "Carve-outs" that allow children under 18 to carry openly. Even in super-strict New York or California. Most firearm restrictions re. age revolve around handguns, not rifles.

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 08:33 AM

10. I'd like to see those carve outs, that makes no sense on its face for kids to go to school open

... carry with any firearm.

Yeah, I'd like to see the New York law that allows a kid to carry around PGRs outside of the grounds of a school for instance.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 08:37 AM

12. From Wikipedia.

 

"Contrary to handguns, N.Y. state law does not ban the open carry of shotguns or rifles, except in restricted buildings such as schools and courthouses."

The only restriction is on magazine capacity of the rifle, not open carry itself. And before you point to "Assault-style" and say "This isn't PGR", a lot of modern guns are marketed as "Safe-act compliant" specifically for the purpose of complying with New York Law. Namely, Rittenhouse's rifle has SAFE-act compliant variants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York#Miscellaneous_laws


ON EDIT:

Also from Wikipedia,

"The law is extremely vague on open carry. Open carry in public is not legal in most instances. While no law specifically bans open carry, a license to carry is issued to carry concealed as per penal law 400. Therefore, pistol permit holders must carry concealed. Open carry permitted while hunting and possibly on one's own property. Open carry of unloaded long guns is not explicitly prohibited by any law, but is generally not practiced. It is illegal to transport a loaded long gun in a motor vehicle, except in some scenarios while hunting."

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #12)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 08:43 AM

14. Unnnn, this is from giffords law center on 17 yr olds which is my question.

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/who-can-have-a-gun/minimum-age/#:~:text=New%20York%20City,a%20firing%20range

So in New York it looks like the answer is no ... a 17yr can't go about a city open carry like an idiot.

I doubt other states are as loose as the judge in WI trial says WI laws are on under 18 open carry

That concept on its face doesn't make any sense

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 08:51 AM

15. New York City is not New York State.

 

The City has different laws than the State.

The State minimum age is 16 for long-guns, 21 for handguns.

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/minimum-age-to-purchase-possess-in-new-york/

from the same site you posted after a brief search.


ON EDIT: For further reading on the legality of NYS gun law.

https://www.brill-legal.com/our-services/criminal-defense/criminal-defense-faq/how-do-gun-laws-vary-across-new-york/

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 09:06 AM

16. Looks like these MOST "carve outs" involve guardian oversite otherwise in context the answer is no

... a 17yr old kid can't walk down the street in most states strapped with an AR15 without oversite except in WI.

There's 23 states that don't allow possession of a "long gun" at all under 18 except while being supervised.

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/who-can-have-a-gun/minimum-age/#:~:text=While%20federal%20law%20prohibits%20federally,in%20hunting%20or%20target%20shooting.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 09:10 AM

17. You're not reading for comprehension, and by extension you're incorrect.

 

And that's not a dig, I promise. But just because there -is- a minimum age, doesn't mean that "A 17 year old kid can't walk down the streets in most states..."

In fact, from your own link, only 23 of 50 states have ANY minimum age. Meaning less than half of the USA has a minimum age to open carry a long rifle.

Look, we can get into this. If you want to, I'll commit to the dialogue, because I genuinely feel this dialogue needs to happen; Open and honest dialogue NEEDS to happen regarding Gun Control. But I want you to know up front, you are more wrong than you know.


Give me the word, we'll have this discussion civilly. But you are NOT going to enjoy it.


((Here's a little spoiler, from your link, again: "Minimum age of 18 is imposed for possession of long guns (16 states and the District of Columbia)." 16 is less than 25, and far less than 50.))

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 09:14 AM

18. "in context" is what I typed, meaning the context of the KR trial not just any situation one could

... come up to be correct.

Half the states in the union a kid can't walk down the street open carry an AR 15, period so I don't know where you got "Almost every state" in the context of the KR trial ... context matters

I'm narrowly defining the situation to what we're experiencing on purpose, I've been through these discussions before.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 09:19 AM

19. Okay, please humor me. I'm doing my research.

 

"Half the states in the union a kid can't walk down the street open carry an AR 15" Well at the very least that doesn't include New York, which was the original point of contention, but no matter; Do you have a citation for that? I can't confirm it yet, but I also am still researching. From what I'm seeing thus far, that statement is incorrect but I'm trusting that you have some knowledge I don't.

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 09:27 AM

20. Click link, state age minimum laws for possession (4th column)

In context of KR trial KR possessed a "long gun" without parent supervision and was open carry with it during a riot not a hunting trip or range shooting or some shit.

Half the states in the union have laws against the KR scenario without parent supervision

The judges simpleton assed decision in this case didn't make WI safer

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 09:35 AM

21. I see something in your link on Mobile, but not on PC. PC talks about suicide numbers.

 

Granted, the Mobile disagrees with you in that it states that Federally, unlicensed persons may sell, deliver, or transfer a long gun or long gun ammunition to a person of any age.


Continuing to try to find what you're talking about.

To quote Mobile from your link: "As described below, federal law and the laws in most states continue to allow unsupervised access to firearms by individuals under age 21."

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 09:41 AM

23. Forgot link (inside)

Click number besides age in 4th column, it points the laws and statues in the states that stipulates laws against underage open carry possession of firearm without oversight which is what KR was doing.

I'm glad, it looks like MOST states in the union have laws against what KR was doing that night and OVERALL a 17 yr old in most states can't possess a loaded rifle and do what KR did before he started shooting at unarmed people chasing him.

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/who-can-have-a-gun/minimum-age/#:~:text=Twenty%2Dthree%20states%20have%20enacted%20laws%20to%20at%20least%20partially%20close%20this%20gap%2C%20and%20impose%20a%20minimum%20age%20at%20which%20persons%20can%20possess%20long%20guns

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 09:46 AM

24. I think we may be talking past one another somehow.

 

Your link states that less than half of the states have a minimum age. Unless I've somehow failed at math like my life depended on it, 1.) 23/50 is less than half, and it is far less than "Most". 2.) The link I've posted a bit downthread indicates that more than a few of the age restrictions are "16", meaning Rittenhouse would be legal to carry.


Am I missing your point somehow? With respect, everything you've linked me to reinforces my position; Less than half the states outlaw what Rittenhouse did, and fewer than that would prosecute him for it. In fact, I'm learning that even places like California and New York (obvs) have carve-outs I didn't even know existed, and permit kids even younger than 16 to carry without supervision.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 09:39 AM

22. Okay, using both Mobile and PC together, I think I've found what you're looking for.

 

20 states disallow anyone under the age of 18 to open-carry a rifle/long gun. (Brief aside, New York's minimum age is 16, so my original point stands.) FAR more than half of the US would readily allow exactly what happened in the Rittenhouse case, including New York. Using your link here, if I'm reading you correctly.

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/who-can-have-a-gun/minimum-age/


ON EDIT: Even fewer, as I was only checking "Long gun carry" and disregarding "Handgun carry/NA" status on most states.

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Response to Initech (Original post)

Sat Nov 20, 2021, 08:34 AM

11. Yep

Looks like it

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