Florida woman fatally shot after pointing gun at man

[ecstatic]

This story perfectly illustrates the insanity of our gun laws, gun owners, and our justice system:

An Orange City woman who was also a Volusia County librarian was fatally shot Saturday after she pointed a handgun at a man whose motorcycle she had earlier hit and the man returned fire.

Morales drove to her Wisconsin Avenue home after she hit the motorcyclist (Andrew Derr) on Volusia Avenue/US 17-92.

The motorcyclist and two other witnesses, who did not know each other, then followed Morales to her home in attempt to help identify her for police, Sampsell said.

Once at the home, Morales exchanged words with Derr and the witnesses and then went into her house and came back with a gun, the lieutenant said.

"Morales pointed a handgun at the witnesses and Derr," a press release states. "Derr having a valid Florida concealed weapons permit, drew his concealed handgun and fired multiple rounds, striking Morales."

https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/2021/11/22/police-orange-city-woman-fatally-shot-road-rage-incident/8718048002/

The motorcyclist/shooter hasn't been charged yet, but it'll be interesting to see who is allowed to stand their ground? The woman who was killed was 5 months pregnant.

[brewens]

1. I hate to say it, but this may be a good thing. I mean how fucked up do you want? Jesus! From this

report, it sounds like the woman was clearly in the wrong, and the guy had as good a reason as you could have to shoot her. But the fetus makes it a little complicated.

Assholes have this pregnant lady ready to attack someone with a gun without knowing what the hell she's doing. Right or wrong, if you drew on someone, it's a good idea to avoid letting them get a gun out and shoot you, especially if you're pregnant!

Then how likely was the rider to confront her if he had not been packing? It might have been a lot more likely they would have spotted the woman's car, stood off at a distance, and called the cops. No one dies that way.

[brush]

5. The woman thought pointing a gun at the guy would scare him off. Big mistake.

Nowadays you never know who's packing.

[peggysue2]

15. First lesson of gun ownership

Never point a gun at anyone unless you're prepared to shoot to kill.

Too many people out there waving guns around have no idea what they're doing.

[uponit7771]

24. +1

[ecstatic]

10. I agree. She had a false sense of security

From the moment she intentionally hit the motorcyclist to the moment when she left the security of her home, repeatedly, to engage with him. It's mind boggling.

And you really can't blame the motorcyclist for thinking she was unhinged enough to use her gun. After all, isn't that the standard play now--to get 911 on the phone while you shoot someone?

[Buckeyeblue]

11. I agree. She committed a hit and run and then introduced a gun

Her issue was that she should have just shot the guy, not tried to scare him.

The new rule is this: if you have a gun and you feel threatened, you need to use it. Pulling it to scare someone only turns the tables and makes them feel threatened and gives them the green light to shoot you.

The self-defense laws are absurd. But I believe this is what they have come to.

The interesting part will be the fetus. If it's just determined the fetus is part of the woman, then the fetal heartbeat/personhood arguments fail.

[peggysue2]

17. It's not a new rule

It was the very first comment my husband and I heard in gun training:

Never, I repeat never point a gun at anyone unless you're prepared to shoot to kill. Not scare, not wound. Pointing a gun at someone is the ultimate threat. Sounds as if motorcycle dude knew that. Miss Librarian did not.

The outcome was awful but not surprising.

This is what a mass gun culture brings--a lot of tragic outcomes with far too many untrained gun owners.

[Buckeyeblue]

18. Agreed. I've always heard don't point a gun at someone unless prepared to shoot

I guess what seems new to me is that the saying should be don't point a gun unless you are going to shoot.

Like the old west, you better be quick and decisive.

But I agree that we are going to have more tragic deaths. And more people not trained to use a gun in a stressful situation, will lead to accidental killings.

What will muddy the water is that not everyone who thinks they are acting in self-defense will get off. Some will be convicted. Not everyone will get a multimillion dollar defense like Rittenhouse.

And when women, African-Americans and LGBTQ start shooting rednecks in self defense, the alt-right will call party foul.

[peggysue2]

23. That's exactly right

you better be quick and decisive.

It's chilling the first time you hear the instruction: Point the gun, be prepared to kill.

But it drills down the awesome responsibility of gun ownership.

Also agree that the Rittenhouse defense was an aberration in the sense that the average person does not and will not get that sort of high-end team with pre-trial jury focus groups and what not. Rittenhouse was funded by outside political sources who had no interest in justice, merely performance. They used grotesque on-the-book state law to their full advantage.

And so, a reckless, stupid 17-year old gets off murdering two people and maiming another. No amount of crocodile tears will wash that away.

I'm a believer in Karma. The court may not have called Rittenhouse to account for what he did. But eventually he'll pay for those murders.

[Iggo]

22. Yeah, but no one dies that way. Where's the fun in that?

“When do we get to start shooting [people]?”

[sinkingfeeling]

2. I'm 2021 America the answer to every problem is a loaded gun.

Last edited Wed Nov 24, 2021, 12:24 PM - Edit history (1)

[uponit7771]

25. +1, ... gumpers want to even shoot the virus instead of getting a vaccine

[sop]

3. Often it's the last one standing who gets to assert the stand your ground self defense.

[czarjak]

4. Once Donnie declared Open Season, anything is possible. Lots of luck, everyone.

[Progressive Jones]

6. That person did a very stupid and reckless thing. Now she's dead.

She created the entire problem herself.

[Celerity]

7. Something is off. She called 911 and said they were threatening her first, then they followed her.

[sl8]

12. Where did you see that?

The OP's article mentions a 911 call, but not who placed it. It does mention a witness speaking with the 911 dispatcher, though.

[Celerity]

14. Here.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10235381/amp/Pregnant-Florida-librarian-35-shot-dead-intentionally-rammed-motorcyclist.html

snip

Morales also called 911, telling a dispatcher she was being threatened by aggressive men.

'You’re three men. You followed me. Leave me alone,' Morales is heard screaming on the call that was released by the authorities.

[sl8]

16. Thanks. n/t

[Celerity]

19. yw!

[Hortensis]

26. Both parties called 911.

Instead of waiting in the house for their arrival, she went out with the gun, making two potentially deadly weapons she threatened this man with. Sounds like another victim of the violent urges surging through some on the right these days.

The baby is a tragedy. He or she will never coo and kick excitedly on seeing...anything.

[Woodswalker]

8. Isn't America Grand

[Cattledog]

9. Case of "road rage".

According to the article she intentionally hit the motorcycle after an exchange of words.

[shrike3]

21. Is that what happened?

I was wondering why she "intentionally" hit a motorcyclist. Shees.

[Aristus]

13. I'm sorry; when does the whole "An armed society is a polite society" thing begin?

[Iggo]

20. Gunfucker on Gunfucker crime.

Yee-fucking-haw.