General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI firmly believe that President Biden should have made the securing of voting rights and
fair elections the top priority on his agenda, even before the BBB Act and he and the Democrats in Congress should be moving to abolish or make exceptions to the filibuster to accomplish that. My reasoning is that as long as Republicans believe that they can rig elections, they will not care about doing the will of the people or cooperating with Democrats and, because of that, Biden may never accomplish his agenda.
leftstreet
(36,106 posts)Takket
(21,560 posts)but it is DOA unless Manchin and Sinema carve out the filibuster for it.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)AND WHO can we get to replace them mid-term?
Are the Governors in these states ReThug or DEM? Because don't they appoint replacements like in case of death or some other way of leaving office?
Would there be a special election in that case?
IF THESE DEMS won't be DEMS, then how can we replace them because ESPECIALLY IF the elections of 2022 and 2024 are rigged DEMS WILL NEED THE FILIBUSTER to keep the Creep Show from DESTROYING AMERICA.
AS DEMS (even if only DINOs) they are OUR problem. Let's solve it.
Keep the filibuster so we can be as much of a pain in the ReThugly collective if we lose the majority in the future.
Because it seems to ME that that may be what the ReThugs want, for the DEMS to abolish the filibuster so they can rig elections, get a majority and leave US completely powerless.
Think about it.
jimfields33
(15,769 posts)Both hail from states with republicans as governor who would love nothing more then replace them. Not sure wed be thrilled. As far as recall, honestly itd be expensive and not sure its easy for a senator to be recalled.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)These states do not have Democratic governors, no.
Agree that abolishing filibuster is a risky proposition. BUT ... it's been pointed out in various articles I've read that Republicans use it and rely on it far more often than Democrats traditionally. Mainly because the GOP never wants to enact 'big' things, so Dems don't get many chances to use it.
ARandomPerson
(2,406 posts)Manchin and Sinema are senators. They represent states, not congressional districts.
There is no mechanism for recalling US senators or congressmen.
West Virginia and Arizona both have Republican governors.
And in any case, West Virginia is very red and Arizona leans red. The idea that Democrats can replace Manchin or Sinema with impunity is absurd. In fact, Joe Manchin may be the only Democrat who is capable of winning in West Virginia. (Sinema is more expendable.)
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)There has NEVER been an ability to recall Federal elected officials. Add to which, the appointed or elected replacements would certainly be worse.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)They GET into position by the voters, we should have some remedy when they obstruct the party against their own voter's rights.
These Senators are STILL representatives of the people in that State. Why on Earth didn't the people get this power from the get go?
zaj
(3,433 posts)Q: How exactly would we establish a recall process?
A: Secure 67 Senators AND 294 House members AND ratification 38 state legislatures.
So, good luck with that?
justhanginon
(3,290 posts)that crapfest in California over the governors recall.
Polybius
(15,385 posts)Even if there were, Manchin's wouldn't be recalled. He's got over a 60% approval rating in WV. They love him.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)I think it is really interesting how this board has changed and everyone expects people here to be Constitutional Scholars and are no longer willing to help anyone anymore, just shoot them down.
Years ago we called that trolling, today it's just standard operating procedure.
Don't help educate anyone on the specifics of a situation, just come on and complain and call people names.
I'm out for today, but thanks for restoring my faith in DU.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)Trust_Reality
(1,722 posts)Thanks for participating.
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)They can only be removed by their respective houses of Congress. They are federal offices, not local offices, and once elected no recall is possible. It's in the Constitution, and they are Constitutional elected officials.
It is important to understand basic things like that. If you haven't read the Constitution recently, I highly recommend doing that.
Response to Raven (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
tinrobot
(10,895 posts)Not productive.
Let's focus on the people who are obstructing passage of the bill, not those who support it.
leftstreet
(36,106 posts)not blame
dawg
(10,624 posts)Because you're not wrong about the importance of those things. I just don't think there was ever any realistic chance of getting them done.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)Like withdraw Federal Funds for any state that chooses to take voting integrity out of the hands of The People and hand it over to elected officials who have a vested interest in appeasing party leaders.
Mary in S. Carolina
(1,364 posts)just not Manchins. Manchin now has what he wants, so let's get this passed.
Colgate 64
(14,732 posts)has blinders on, concentrating on his economic reforms but not paying attention to the existential threat to our democracy that is blinding us.
Beastly Boy
(9,310 posts)Remember, we live in a largely racist and xenophobic society with white voters in the majority. Too many of them think of voting rights as a zero sum game - the more rights minorities get, the fewer rights they have left. Their position is ridiculous on its face, but persuading them to the contrary doesn't seem to be within the reach of the Biden administration.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)for all these policies that need his yes vote instead of blaming Biden for not being able to make Joe M to vote right
Dan
(3,550 posts)It will truly be a one party government.
I guess we will see what happens - when POC can no longer vote, unless they are safe GOP voters.
We are not going back to the days of old Jim Crow!
I will die first.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... in ballot request AFTER they reduced the amount of time to request them.
This is what the center of the anti democracy acts from the GQP looks like; reducing resources to vote.
This is worst than voter suppression (mostly misdirection and misinformation) this is taking away the resources to vote in specific areas so people CAN NOT vote no matter the turn out.
LymphocyteLover
(5,643 posts)are what is really really disturbing to me. It's FUBAR.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... are wondering what will we run on when the GQP doesn't have to run on anything.
No, we need to address voter access asap ... a 400% increase in mail ballot request denial in ATL shows how successful their AD measures are
LymphocyteLover
(5,643 posts)I live in a red state and my Sen's and Rep DGAF.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... get through the GQP bullshit.
In 2020 our communication to communities of color were lacking, we need to get on radio and local tv for those communities nationwide this time
AverageOldGuy
(1,523 posts)We are in the state we are in because this nation has never come to grips with the Civil War.
Following the end of the War, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were enacted. Those amendments laid the groundwork for the federal government to abolish state-based abuses of the criminal "justice system" and the electoral system. For the past 150 years, Congress and the federal courts have refused to finish what the Reconstruction Amendments started and now it is too late.
The USA is finished. We are on the way to becoming a fascist state; the journey will be completed with the Nov 2024 election. 1984 was just 60 years late in arriving.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... climate change in 2 months the GQP doesn't care because they have voter denial
Anti democracy measures WORK !!!
That's the reason why they act so stupid 100% of the time, they're not going to pay for it ... NOT AT ALL !!
pamdb
(1,332 posts)I have said from the beginning, right after the first package, the aid for the virus and such,(I forgot what it was called) when he was riding high, the next step should have been securing and improving voting rights. Without that, nothing else matters. Now they've fooled around so long trying to appease Manchin and the flake from AZ, they'll never get anything done or it will be so watered down, it won't make a difference. Infrastructure is all well and good, but not as important as voting rights.
radius777
(3,635 posts)Nicolle Wallace and her panel which includes several former Repubs say that voting rights are the 'four alarm fire' that Dems should be sounding on a daily basis and using every possible mechanism to force the issue.
Biden is president because black and brown voters stood on long lines in urban areas like Philly, Milwaukee, Detroit, Atlanta. Schumer is majority leader because black voters and Stacy Abrams helped win those two Senate seats in GA.
Suburban swing voters also voted for Biden due to fears of Trump and the threat the RW presents to democracy and rights more broadly such as voting rights, civil rights and women's rights/choice. Even though such voters typically lean center-right on economics they tend to lean left on social and structural issues.
bucolic_frolic
(43,128 posts)BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,128 posts)BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)You can LEGALLY "rig the system".
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,128 posts)We have been out-gamed.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)You'd almost think that NOT getting crucial things passed when we we take power helps with fundraising later............
bucolic_frolic
(43,128 posts)It costs money to run those organizations and maintain offices and support.
AncientAndy
(73 posts)Republicans know that it isnt.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... the system in their favor.
People are not understanding the impact of their AD measures
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)Pass BULLETPROOF law after law after law for 2 full years that ENSURE everyone eligible can vote, with MANDATORY and frankly, BRUTAL sentences in Federal prisons to anyone who breaks those laws.
Only THEN can we move on to things like health care, infrastructure, and everything else. Make every law a roadblock for Republicans that will take YEARS to get around or over, so that they will be tied up in the courts for DECADES.
But....nope. Never happened. I firmly believe we would have kept control with Obama and not lost the midterms if we had done so...and now we are only what, 11 months away from FAILING TO PASS VOTING GUARANTEES and very possibly, once again, having Republicans in control of the House, grinding everything to a halt.
It's disheartening. I'm 70 years old, radicalized by Chicago 1968 and the Vietnam war, I've seen it all for a long long time and have never been able to figure out this massive failure on our part.
Let's be honest, Biden won because enough people were FED UP WITH THINGS, and yet, really...was anybody out in the streets because of INFRASTRUCTURE??????????????????????????????????????
radius777
(3,635 posts)meaning we need to gerrymander as hard as we can to get every last seat, need to put laws on state and local levels that strongly criminalize any attempt to subvert elections and suppress votes, etc. Expand and pack the Supreme Court. Make DC and PR states.
Agree that while BIF and BBB are nice things to have, Biden was elected for existential reasons namely the threat Trump and Trumpism pose to democracy and many of the rights liberals have fought for over the past 50 years.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)LeftInTX
(25,258 posts)He had the votes.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)And left a legacy of litigation that will be used by the enemy ad infinitum....Now Biden too, nothing is gonna happen to voting laws, guaranteed....
lame54
(35,284 posts)I thought we hit the ground running and were on a tear.
Oh well, learn something new every day.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Until the middle of 2022 to pressure the Senators to vote for the voting rights or even wait until 2023 for the general elections. Politicians are always thinking in those terms. Its who they are.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)TIME to pass voting laws, BUT, they will DEFINITELY BE ASKING FOR MONEY to really, golly gee, REALLY REALLY REALLY try soooooooooooooooo hard to pass some voting laws real soon..............only they won't.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... enough time to change them.
There would have to be a slurry of "stays" (I think) on the new law for the GQP to win
David__77
(23,370 posts)
33taw
(2,439 posts)election has one top priority and that is packing the courts with supportive jurists from top to bottom. When Hillary Clinton lost in 2016- Roe vs. Wade was destined to be overturned along with voting rights (it's not quite over, but we are close).
LymphocyteLover
(5,643 posts)about it with the Senate he has. We've been trying for almost a year to get Manchinema to change their tune on the filibuster and they aren't budging, appparently.