WaPo: Manchin's private offer to Biden

[BlueCheeseAgain]

Full headline: Manchin’s private offer to Biden included pre-k, climate money, Obamacare — but excluded child benefit

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/12/20/manchin-biden-child-tax-credit/

Sen. Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.) last week made the White House a concrete counteroffer for its spending bill, saying he would accept a $1.8 trillion package that included universal prekindergarten for 10 years, an expansion of Obamacare, and hundreds of billions of dollars to combat climate change, three people familiar with the matter said.

But Manchin’s counteroffer excluded an extension of the expanded Child Tax Credit the administration has seen as a cornerstone of President Biden’s economic legacy, the people said, an omission difficult for the White House to accept in the high-stakes negotiations. The people spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the closed-door deliberations.

Manchin’s private proposal to the White House — the details of which have not been previously reported — was made just days before a spectacular public collapse in negotiations between the White House and the West Virginia senator, marked by bitter and personal recriminations that left the status of the talks unclear.

...

But it remains possible that the administration and Manchin could still reengage in talks, as common ground remains between the sides. While the precise details of Manchin’s offer remain unclear, it adheres to his repeated demand that Democrats fund for 10 years its economic programs — rather than reduce their top line cost by only funding them for a few years, people familiar with the matter said.

So it seems the big sticking points are

(1) Manchin wants everything in the bill to be fully funded for 10 years. This of course means they make a much bigger hit to the bottom line, and that means fewer things in it.

(2) The child tax credit. It would cost around $100 billion annually, so over ten years it would cost $1 trillion, which would likely crowd out a lot of the other priorities. President Biden really wants it, so this might be a hard gap to bridge.

What do you all think? Would something like Manchin's proposal be worth passing?

[11 Bravo]

1. At this point, the only thing I see Manchin passing is gas. And it reeks.

[2naSalit]

12. Perfect description!

[The Magistrate]

2. I Say Fuck Him, Sir

The shit-heel would vote against his own proposal if it came to the floor tomorrow.

He's lower than an alderman, he won't stay brought. His word is as good as a junkie's saying he won't lift cash out of grandma's purse.

He is not negotiating, he is stalling.

He runs as a 'good Democrat', in other words, as not one of those bleeding heart tax and spenders who coddle the poor and colored, and he is not going to shift off his brand just because it would help the people, the country, and his Party.

I repeat: Fuck him.

[DLevine]

4. +1

[2naSalit]

13. +2

[11 Bravo]

17. How do you really feel, Sir?

(And very well said, my friend.)

[MFM008]

21. Exactly

Manchin gives Biden his marching orders
Not just Biden but every American that voted for Biden.
The coal baron from a shit state running all 50.

[hack89]

3. I support the 10 year funding requirement

I am getting tired of Congress' budget games. If it is important then it is important to commit to a significant period of time.

[The Magistrate]

6. Even Stalin Contented Himself With Five-Year Plans, Sir

I cannot off-hand recall one prediction of what things would be like a decade hence that proved remotely true.

I am tired of budget games as well, but most are rooted in economic ignorance. Anyone, for instance, claiming 'the deficit' will ruin us is an idiot. I grew up with the old Chicago Tribune. Every day there was a cartoo on the front page predicting 'government spending' would ruin the country and reduce us all to penury. We were going to be vacationing on the moon in 1995, too, I recall....


"The future is hard to predict, on account of it ain't happened yet."

[empedocles]

8. Suspect that 'games' have been an issue throughout.

[NCjack]

9. I accept Manchin's basic view. If a program

Planned and funded for 10 years, very hard for Republicans to kill.

Let’s get a deal for 10 years, get voting rights, and go back to work on the missing pieces.

[doc03]

14. I can see his point if the child tax credit is passed for 4 years it will be impossible to get

get rid of in the future. I think not counting it for ten years is not being honest about it. I hear people can get the child tax credit
and make up to $200,000, I agree with him they shouldn't. That isn't pulling any kid out of poverty. The paid family leave would
become a paid vacation for some that will always abuse anything.

[Mad_Machine76]

33. Why does it seem like potentially indefinitely extending the CTC is being made out to be a BAD thing

If a program is good and helping people, then why would we want to get rid of it? Kind of like saying that we should get rid of Social Security or Medicare?

[doc03]

34. Well that is the point I was attempting to make. The CTC will be like

SS, Medicare and the ACA you may as well figure it will be a permanent entitlement. All of which the
Republicans have fought against from day one. That is Manchin's point in counting the cost over 10 years,
obviously he doesn't want to create a new entitlement program.

[Calista241]

21. Agreed, it's not like future congresses, as long as they were Dem

Weren’t going to deauthorize the child tax credit. And if the Repubs let it drop, we were going to hammer them for it.

[Pantagruel]

5. Perspective helps

I saw 10 year budget projection that's somewhere from 60 to 70 $Trillion .
A proposed 2-3 $Trillion increase isn't that significant in the big picture.

[Nixie]

7. Take what you can get and move forward.

Leave personalities and brand building out of it. Extract the concessions and move on! Just like in college — one class is closed so you have to beat cheeks to go find another and you take what you can get. You don’t give up on your whole long term agenda/degree because one door closed. Keep moving forward!

He won because his vote is needed. Accept it and move on!

[harumph]

10. Without the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act

it won't matter anyway.

[Irish_Dem]

11. Manchin is a proven liar and negotiates in bad faith.

You cannot negotiate with someone like this.

[MFM008]

23. And going on faux news

Just like he did when Biden was out of the country
Hes a snake.

[Irish_Dem]

26. Right, he is not working for our party at all.

He is working for someone else.

[iemanja]

15. You assume he would vote for his own proposal

He has said he will not.

[UCmeNdc]

16. Why in private?

[BlueCheeseAgain]

18. I assume most offers/counteroffers are done privately, and not publicly?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question.

[PufPuf23]

19. Can a State (say West Virginia) do a recall election on a US Senator?

I should know this but don't and wonder if the option varies by State law.

IMO Manchin did not deal in good faith and this reportage is likely the narrative that some want to have believed to make Biden and the D's look bad.

What is more in your face hostile one the Democratic party than one of its supposed own messes and compromises away major components of signature and necessary legislation then makes the announcement on Fox News.

[Mr.Bill]

20. No. No member of Congress can be recalled.

[Calista241]

24. Manchin's approval rating is 30 points higher than Biden's

In West Virginia.

[redstateblues]

28. Lot of posters overlook that number

His constituency is very Trumpish

[PufPuf23]

29. Thank you, Mr. Bill and Calista. I should have known that a State's

Senator could not be recalled.

Wish so much time and concessions had not been granted to Manchin.

Make him vote on full banana and rub his face in how it hurts many common people especially those in West Virginia.

[BGBD]

27. So you'd rather have

The guy that is currently suing to stop vaccine mandates to have that seat?

You guys seem to want to remove the most centrist member of congress and replace them with somebody to the right of Ted Cruz.

[PufPuf23]

31. Not so sure who you mean by "You guys".

Obviously, I did not think that far ahead when asked the question.

My perception is than Manchin did not act in good faith.

Better legislation was watered down to please Manchin who never intended to vote for BBB in any form because of his own politics (that differ from the Democratic Party on BBB and the contemporary well-being of the USA as well as most individuals in West Virginia).

I am at DU hoping to see a positive path.

[Vinca]

25. They should vote on what he proposes and call his bluff. If, by some miracle, it passes, the

other items should be brought up either separately or as part of another bill that has to be passed. At this point, I think Manchin is totally full of shit and his offer probably never existed at all.

[SKKY]

30. Manchin sent a staffer to inform the White House he was a no...

....while he ran to Fox News. That's pretty much all you need to know about Joe Manchin.

[Fiendish Thingy]

32. A known liar offering a Sophie's Choice Shit Sandwich is no "deal". Nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. If anyone thinks this proposal wouldn't change if Biden made signs that he would accept it,

they're delusional.