General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums
A Merry Christmas to all the other atheists here.
Yes, I know it's a religious holiday, but all cultures in the Northern Hemisphere have a Winter festival of some sort, to celebrate the days getting longer, the sun being higher in the sky, and the anticipation of better days ahead.
As an atheist, it is good at this time of year to humbly acknowledge the existence of higher powers that have helped me through some of life's darkest days -- my fellow human beings, who have given help without any expectation of benefit to themselves. I can't repay them directly, but maybe I can pay some of the debt forward. It's large. I doubt I'll be around long enough to retire the whole principal. One does the best one can.
I have learned that I can enjoy gospel music by hearing it as aspirational and not about a concrete reality. Religion can be good that way. One can always hope that the good will persist and the bad will fade away. That's more aspirational than a concrete reality, but there's always hope.
Happy Holidays everyone. Spring is coming!
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)that it's entirely possible to enjoy the Christmas spirit and the Christmas season without actually believing in the Jesus myth.
malaise
(292,858 posts)
Ferrets are Cool
(22,532 posts)
Maru Kitteh
(31,255 posts)
SYFROYH
(34,213 posts)
Tree Lady
(13,009 posts)The holiday. Love the lights, decorations, being with family (when we can not lately), and more.
Tommymac
(7,334 posts)It's the Spirit of the season, goodwill and cheer to all Our fellow travelers on this big old SpaceBall.
calimary
(89,041 posts)Nice one, Tommymac!
Biophilic
(6,404 posts)
catbyte
(38,661 posts)
mountain grammy
(28,685 posts)
JI7
(93,223 posts)
Pacifist Patriot
(25,188 posts)
myccrider
(484 posts)but I can still b#tch about the endlessly repeated xmas carols (even the ones I like) and the crass commercialization. 
homegirl
(1,926 posts)celebrates the pagan Winter Solstice,
so to everyone..
"Congratulations on the successful completion of your annual trip around the Sun.
old as dirt
(1,972 posts)And from the Southern Hemisphere, where my wife is from, as well.
Villancicos: Qué Bonito está mi Niño
Intérprete: Cantaoras del Patía
Autor: Folclor Tradicional
El Patía, Cauca
Buckeyeblue
(6,199 posts)Last night my religious mother said, we are all here because of Jesus. Because I'm a smart ass I said, at least we know who to blame.
dhol82
(9,631 posts)The whole holiday, from trees to tinsel to fake snow, is just so fun.
If I had a fireplace I would light a Yule log.
Bayard
(28,597 posts)But I bet nobody in the bible ever said--Merry Xmas! (Mary Xmas doesn't have the same ring to it).
I'm sure enjoying our pagan Xmas tree and feasting!
aunt when I was a kid who would write in letters or cards merry Xmas. Guess I was not too bright (still questioning my intelligence well into my 60’’s) and had to ask my mom what that meant.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)in its wisdom.
God, grant me the Serenity
To accept the things I cannot change...
Courage to change the things I can,
And Wisdom to know the difference.
lapfog_1
(31,664 posts)is a pagan holiday to celebrate the "return of the sun" (after the winter solstice).
DavidDvorkin
(20,493 posts)At length, here:
https://eyeblister.blogspot.com/2021/12/chrismanukkah.html
old as dirt
(1,972 posts)Las almas de los violines ‘negros’
(page 155)
http://repositorio.unicauca.edu.co:8080/handle/123456789/134
Iggo
(49,655 posts)Bookmarked like a motherfucker!
😎👍🏽
ItsjustMe
(11,971 posts)Christmas was heavily influenced by the Roman festival of Saturnalia. The historical Jesus was not born on December 25th as many contemporary Christians believe. Many staple Christmas traditions predated the festival and were tied into ancient pagan worship of the sun and related directly to the winter solstice.
Christmas as we know it today is a relatively new holiday. Many traditional elements we associate with Christmas predate Christianity by many centuries. There is also a lot of debate as to how much corporate and commercial interests have influenced this holiday as well.
Nowadays, there’s a lot of hand waving when it comes to the Christian origins of Christmas. Inarguably, however, is the fact that the holiday’s modern iteration has been influenced by many pagan and secular festivities.
wnylib
(25,355 posts)than Christianity. Thst's what happens when different cultures meet and blend their beliefs and cultures into each other. Has happened many times in many places throughout human history. In anthropology it is called religious syncretism.
The Zoroastrian god, Mithra(s) is more closely associated with Christmas and Christianity. He became popular among Greeks and Romans after the Persian Empire spread westward, and after the Greek and then Roman conquests. His birthday was December 25.
Greeks were interested in Judaism, especially after some Jews became partially assimilated as Hellenized Jews who were educated in Greek but maintained many of their own customs and beliefs. They shared in common a love of learning, story telling, and philosophy. The abstract spirit god of monotheistic Judaism appealed to many Greeks as similar to their belief in an unknown spirit force beyond the Greek pantheon. Romans were influenced by Greek and Jewish religious concepts, as well as Persian Zoroastrianism. The concept of a Messiah to reign over a kingdom on earth came from Zoroastrianism when Persians ruled over Israel. It was tweaked to fit Jewish culture and religious beliefs.
As Christianity spread into northern Europe, it incorporated pre Christian customs and beliefs. Religious syncretism again. People don't give up their centuries old customs easily. They keep them and find ways to reinterpret them into new religions. Happened again in the Americas among indigenous people who became Christian.
old as dirt
(1,972 posts)When I first met my wife, one of the first stories that she told me about her religion (Roman Catholic) was about how her ancestors ran away some 500 years ago and established a palenque, El Palenque del Castigo in the Patía valley.
They were called "cimarrones", and were among the very first "illegals" here in América.
In the Patía valley they climbed a mountain, to the top of el cerro del Manzanillo, to see if they could see África. When they couldn't see África, they played their drums and cried.
Whenever their descendants were sad, like their ancestors before them, they would also climb to the top of el cerro del Manzanilla, and look out to see if they could see África, and when they could not, they would play their musical instruments and cry.
Over time all of those tears coalesced to form a lake.
El cerro del Manzanillo is a magical mythological and geographical place.
As it happens, my wife was born very close to it, and when she was a child more than half a century ago, there was a rumor going around Patía that la Virgen María had appeared at the top of el cerro del Manzanillo, so her and her friend climbed to the top to see if they could see Her.
Here's the best video documentary available about my wife's religion. It's got some of the best views of el cerro del Manzanillo in the second half that are available on the web.
Bambuco Patiano - Bambuco Negro
wnylib
(25,355 posts)albacore
(2,744 posts)But it's funny.
Eric Idle... from the Python's comments about Christmas... in a song.
chowder66
(11,856 posts)albacore
(2,744 posts)
childfreebychoice
(476 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)human organization, before human populations increased to where widespread authoritarian forms of organization, fed by sex on the wrong brain, began to dominate the small group cooperative democratic less male-centric organization that had dominated human survival for millions of years.
the march toward 'old world' sex on the wrong brain authoritarianism and greed, stimulated by wrong handed masturbation, continues until we can get some sex ed past the authoritarians.
HAB911
(10,288 posts)Party on!
RFCalifornia
(440 posts)It's been secularized to the point that it belongs to EVERYONE
I'm a fellow humanist and we can all enjoy each other's cultures as long as we don't force it on anyone
That's all we atheists, agnostics and humanists are asking
multigraincracker
(36,989 posts)I can't answer all of your questions, but I can question all of your answers.
Not sure it was because of nature or was it nurture, but I seem to have been born with an "internal locus of control". Mom says I was born that way.
Crunchy Frog
(28,214 posts)And I've always loved Christmas. My favorite Christmas song is "Oh Holy Night".
Deuxcents
(25,538 posts)I had The Trans Siberian Orchestra blasting n when they play O, Holy Night, I go to mush. I don’t care about the caroling n such but that one.. This season to me means giving and not so much material things but of myself..doing favors or donating. The lights n happy atmosphere has been hyjacked by Madison Avenue but the human touch is for me, the reason for the season. Best wishes to you and all my DU friends for a Happy n Healthy New Year 🌴
John1956PA
(4,827 posts)RobertDevereaux
(2,023 posts)... and it inspired me, over the years, to produce three and a half Santa Claus novels so far (NOT for children).
RussBLib
(10,425 posts)Happy Holidays, y'all. Stay strong.
2022 is the year for justice to rain down.
Progressive dog
(7,572 posts)Iggo
(49,655 posts)
(I like that one the best. Let people assume whatever they want about what season I mean….lol.)
Six117
(301 posts)Love you guys for the posts. Just kinda making my day.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)However, it (along with the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc.) does teach children to be wary about believing fantastical crap.
JudyM
(29,568 posts)There’s quite a bit of that.
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)it wasn't much of a leap to also stop believing in an invisible man who lves in the sky.
Greybnk48
(10,667 posts)I don't believe in anything in particular either (atheist), but I LOVE Christmas!
moreland01
(866 posts)Heck, I'd enjoy some winter about now. It's 60 degrees in Colorado and I'm dying for some snow and a little cold.
BigmanPigman
(54,574 posts)of the day and the other half is a religion-free Christmas. Family and friends, foods, stories, decorations, presents, etc. Who wouldn't love that?
mrsadm
(1,198 posts)
Joe Nation
(1,112 posts)LOL!
lindysalsagal
(22,823 posts)They all go to church, but me. They've given up on their heathen sister.
Rizen
(1,025 posts)mjvpi
(1,876 posts)I hope that I’m doing the link correctly
https://americanhumanist.org/news/2013-01-scriptures-go-under-the-knife-in-a-jefferson-bible-f/
The true miracle of Jesus is in the directions on how people should treat each other.
If you delete the miracles, your are left with some timeless advice.
Tommymac
(7,334 posts)
ashredux
(2,872 posts)
nolabear
(43,849 posts)I cry every time.
kairos12
(13,467 posts)
Vinca
(53,357 posts)Weird . . . I like gospel music, too.
appalachiablue
(43,874 posts) 
Rocknation
(44,982 posts)or to want it for others. As for those "fellow human beings" you mentioned, someone once pointed out to me that if we weren't inherently good, we would have wiped itself out thousands of years ago.
Rocknation
triron
(22,240 posts)I am not an atheist, but am an agnostic. Big difference.
Being a retired a scientist does not make me (indeed I'm not) a materialist.
Materialism is empty of meaning to me. I don't believe the universe exists for no reason.
And I really think it is something more than a collection of meaningless energy.
wnylib
(25,355 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 25, 2021, 09:25 PM - Edit history (1)
to find that many Christians do not take every aspect of their religion literally as factual, historical truth. It is the aspirational aspect of religion and the message behind or within the religious stories that have meaning for them. They don't feel a need to believe in literal, factual historicity of religion.
This is true for many clergy as well as lay people. But, people follow what they can accept, so there are also people who take some or even most of religion literally. You will find people of many different perspectives within religions.
phylny
(8,792 posts)It is my experience as well 
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)My parents liked being Catholic because they liked the ceremonial aspects of it all. The Catholics are good at that. They liked that it was ancient and ripe with traditions. In fact, the drifted away from it when the saw things changing, like saying the mass in English, and when they made it okay to eat meat on Fridays. It seemed to them that they were changing something that had been so solid and constant to them.
wnylib
(25,355 posts)some people.
For some, there is spiritual meaning that is symbolized in the ceremony, ritual and stories of religion. For them, that meaning gets lost or becomes shallow if religion is taken literally rather than symbolically.
Joinfortmill
(20,091 posts)
BidenRocks
(2,783 posts)Seasons Greetings All!
Duppers
(28,464 posts) DLevine
(1,791 posts)bluboid
(845 posts)which soars above all religions...
Duppers
(28,464 posts)Amen.
Poiuyt
(18,272 posts)Too much shit going on. It's hard to do my regular shopping because of the crowds. Stress. Expectations. I don't like Christmas music.
But I do like getting together with my family. So there's that.
IronLionZion
(50,823 posts)
And tomorrow is Kwanzaa. Hanukkah ended in early December.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Yes to Festivus! 
LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)We also consider it new year. We have a nice dinner. Drink some champagne.
We celebrate Christmas in the vein of “Peace on Earth, good will to all.” With a bit of made up holiday like Valentines Day.
FakeNoose
(40,196 posts)That way I can celebrate all the holidays! And there are SO MANY that we don't even talk about on DU.
Merry Christmas my friend!
meadowlander
(5,097 posts)On top of not being a Christian, I also live in New Zealand where it's the middle of summer and 80 degrees out. So the last thing I want to do is spend four hours with the oven on cooking a huge meal or watch movies about cuddling up around a roaring fire.
But it's nice to have dates in your calendar when you remember to do things that you enjoy or that you might otherwise not keep top of mind or that serve some other psychological function.
I brought back "advent" calendars this year, not to celebrate the arbitrary date assigned to Mithras's, sorry Jesus's, birthday but because I find the last few weeks of work before the holiday break really drag and it's nice to wake up to a little surprise everyday to remind yourself how close the holidays are. Worked a treat and will definitely do it again next year.
I use my "Christmas" break to take stock of the things I have, the things I think I might need next year, and to get rid of everything else. It's my Marie Kondo holiday. I do the winter-themed stuff for the winter solstice in June.
Also, this is the one time of year I gorge myself on Reeses Peanut Butter cups and binge watch quiz shows.
I highly recommend inventing your own "holiday" traditions and just running with it.
womanofthehills
(10,717 posts)I was just about to. I also loved Alain De Bottom’s book “How Proust Can Change Your Life.” Talks about why Proust had so many friends - Proust gave his friends breaks.
My parents were non religious but we always celebrated Christmas - so I had all the symbolism anyway.
So, my daughter and grandkids basically have no interest in religion. When I was a kid, I joined the Catholic Church on my own for a few yrs and then dropped it - as kids we loved to argue about God and religion. It’s not even a topic many kids of today entertain talking about.
EX500rider
(12,180 posts)
ancianita
(42,901 posts)I worry that believers who trap children early, or who fight believer wars, are missing the point of their holy teachers.
Consciousness and openness to humanity and the human spirit seem to show a faith many religionists don't have.
This old, still relevant song I love, and the fact that Sting was a teacher before he was in The Police, seems appropriate. I gave all my albums -- Ghost In the Machine among them -- to my younger son. Hope he's still got them.
Buckeye_Democrat
(15,490 posts)By science, that was a nice gesture!
Progressive Jones
(6,011 posts)
Capt. America
(2,560 posts)was a great guy who died for his beliefs. That said, I do not believe in his divinity. Any holiday that promotes ethical reflection and copious drinking is okay with me.
soldierant
(9,286 posts)all good things to all the atheists here and everywhere. So many are among the kindest, bracest, strongest pwoplw I have known.
twodogsbarking
(17,582 posts)or eternal damnation. I think that is quite clear.
machoneman
(4,128 posts)Not an atheist here but I respect the rights of all to to worship, or not, any entity they chose.
What amazes me is that the other side is marginalizing all but allegedly Christian followers. Their tent is getting smaller by the day, not even accounting for all the dead-from-COVID 19 Republicans who can no longer vote. Add to that all the scare tactics they have deployed will, if anything, literally scare away their own voters from the polls. Insanity reigns I guess and we will be the benefactors of their asinine tactics.
nowforever
(586 posts)My whole life I have wished it was the jolly white bearded guy that was real....given a choice he wins hands down 🎄🎅🎄
nowforever
(586 posts)My whole life I have wished it was the jolly white bearded guy that was real....given a choice he wins hands down 🎄🎅🎄
Trueblue Texan
(4,194 posts)From another atheist! When I pray and give thanks, I speak from my heart to the “loving and benevolent forces of the Universe.” That is something I actually DO believe in because I am one, as are most of us here at DU. I am grateful for all that these forces offer into the mix of our existence. I celebrate Chrismas, though not for the traditional reasons, and I appreciate folks celebrating Christmas—for whatever reason folks want to celebrate it. I love a lot (not all) of Christmas music and have my own, truer, version of the gospel song, Amazing Grace. (“Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound that loved a soul like me!” Most of that grace came from self awareness and it is ever amazing!)
So I join you in sending holiday greetings to our fellow DUers. Merry Christmas everyone! Stay safe and take hold of and savor every moment of happiness you can! Peace and love!
CrispyQ
(40,674 posts)~crosses fingers
Thanks for a very thoughtful holiday greeting. Season's Greetings, to you, too! 
sarchasm
(1,291 posts)
SergeStorms
(19,997 posts)Christmas, coming from an secular humanist, is a bit hypocritical, but I receive what you're sending.
And I love Gospel music, it meshes with rock and roll beautifully. Any fan of Leon Russell knows what I'm talking about. 