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brooklynite

(94,604 posts)
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 11:44 PM Jan 2022

Dems' filibuster conundrum: It's not just Manchin and Sinema

Politico

A Democratic senator from Arizona is still not sold on changes to the filibuster. And it's not Kyrsten Sinema.

Mark Kelly is not yet committed to a change in the Senate rules that would allow elections reform legislation to pass by a simple majority. A centrist who is up for reelection in November, Kelly said Monday he is still undecided just days before he may have to vote on proposals to weaken the filibuster.

“I’ve never been part of an organization where it’s really, really hard to do things. So if there’s a real proposal, I’ll take a look at it and evaluate it based on what’s in the best interests of the country,” Kelly said. He said he has yet to see what, exactly, he would vote on and that the proposals Democrats have discussed change “almost weekly.”

Sinema (D-Ariz.) and Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) are the source of most liberals’ frustrations these days, with both publicly rebuffing changes to the Senate’s 60-vote threshold. But it’s not like Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer starts a pivotal week — focused on changes to the very fabric of the Senate — with 48 iron-clad votes for a particular filibuster reform.

...snip...

Some, like Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) like a talking filibuster but are “not crazy” about making an exception for voting rights. Meanwhile, Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.) says reform is needed but is promoting more modest changes. She cites the near-impossible odds the party faces in getting all 50 Democrats on board for changing the filibuster unilaterally, also known as the “nuclear option.”
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Dems' filibuster conundrum: It's not just Manchin and Sinema (Original Post) brooklynite Jan 2022 OP
Yes, others are hiding behind them n/t Yandex Jan 2022 #1
But if they aren't willing to come out from behind Manchin and Sinema, they'll fold... Salviati Jan 2022 #5
I know I'm new here but.. Yandex Jan 2022 #15
It looks as if I've got another phone call to make tomorrow wackadoo wabbit Jan 2022 #2
What is so fucking hard about this ??? nt Progressive Jones Jan 2022 #3
Because what goes around comes around PBC_Democrat Jan 2022 #6
I get it, but that was then. This is now. It's an entirely different World now. nt Progressive Jones Jan 2022 #7
Think Back to 2017 when the Rs held the House, Senate, and White House PBC_Democrat Jan 2022 #10
Obama was President for all of 2016, and the first 20 days of 2017. Celerity Jan 2022 #14
People often forget that the president that wins an election takes over the following year. ColinC Jan 2022 #16
You are correct ... Post has been changed PBC_Democrat Jan 2022 #24
Mark Kelly's a "centrist" ?? Politico says so, so it must be A LIE. Budi Jan 2022 #4
He's from Arizona, a place hardly known as a bastion of progressive thought and policy. Calista241 Jan 2022 #8
Mark Kelly has no 'progressive' policies? ? Not a one?? Budi Jan 2022 #12
So your issue is Politico describing Kelly as a Centrist, not Kelly's direct quote? brooklynite Jan 2022 #9
My issue is Politico. RW rag mag hiring RW Trumpers to enhance their rotting messaging. Budi Jan 2022 #11
Are you saying he's not a centrist? brooklynite Jan 2022 #18
Can he be only a centrist? Can he be moderate or progressive on some votes/policies Budi Jan 2022 #19
Labeling is for simplicity brooklynite Jan 2022 #20
Or the nuke waste dump in Sierra Blanca Tx debacle. Or the "Rape Fantasies" he wrote Budi Jan 2022 #21
No one hates politico more than me, but yes Kelly is centrist..sorry to say! PortTack Jan 2022 #13
+1 n/t ChazII Jan 2022 #17
Repubs in power in 2024 manicdem Jan 2022 #22
Heed Sen. Byrd's words The Grand Illuminist Jan 2022 #23

Salviati

(6,008 posts)
5. But if they aren't willing to come out from behind Manchin and Sinema, they'll fold...
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 12:51 AM
Jan 2022

... like cheap suits if those two do.

IMO the Democrats should take a two pronged approach, publicly trying to convince Manchin and Sinema, while privately working on these more under the table holdouts, undercutting the support that Manchin and Sinema may be counting on the maintain their stance. It seems to me that's the strategy that they may very well be taking, because we've seen a number of senate Democrats that were previously also skeptical of filibuster reform come out in favor of it in the past several months...

PBC_Democrat

(401 posts)
6. Because what goes around comes around
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 12:51 AM
Jan 2022

Five years ago Sen Shumer and Pres Obama were vehemently opposed to filibuster reform.

PBC_Democrat

(401 posts)
10. Think Back to 2017 when the Rs held the House, Senate, and White House
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 01:08 AM
Jan 2022

We can argue (and I agree) that are transformational pieces of legislation.

But we ever end in up in an R controlled Government, prepare for the following pieces of
'transformational legislation':
English as the official language,
Nation-wide open-carry,
Ban on gay marriage,
Ban on immigration,
and many other obnoxious items.

Oh, and a total repeal of BBB and the Voter's Rights Act.


ColinC

(8,301 posts)
16. People often forget that the president that wins an election takes over the following year.
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 04:40 AM
Jan 2022

I'm sure they meant 2017 ....

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
4. Mark Kelly's a "centrist" ?? Politico says so, so it must be A LIE.
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 12:42 AM
Jan 2022

They made that up right?

I'd like to see RW ragmag Politico's list of "who's who" on the Centrist, Moderate and ever cool really Left. Just so we know who to hate based on Politico's need to absolutly categorize Democrats according to their who's hot/who's not list, determined by of course, Celebrity RW Political Rag Mag themselves.

Gad, they suck more each day.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
8. He's from Arizona, a place hardly known as a bastion of progressive thought and policy.
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 01:00 AM
Jan 2022

Last edited Tue Jan 11, 2022, 09:21 AM - Edit history (1)

He'll vote as far left as he can and still get re-elected. Or maybe he's really a centrist.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
12. Mark Kelly has no 'progressive' policies? ? Not a one??
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 01:23 AM
Jan 2022

He votes for nothing progressive for this country?

Well that's a big damned lie isn't it. But let's buy the coded spin on our Democrats as tho it was truth.
The bible of Politico says it is so.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
11. My issue is Politico. RW rag mag hiring RW Trumpers to enhance their rotting messaging.
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 01:16 AM
Jan 2022

"They will tell us what to think"

Mark Kelly is a "CENTRIST."
Why the labels, Politico?
Who in Politico's brilliant spin room decides a politician has to be either one or another?

Politico spins the division in our Party by labels like this coded messaging.
I 'd like to know how Politico defines CENTRIST & MODERATE.

I want to see their spin list.


 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
19. Can he be only a centrist? Can he be moderate or progressive on some votes/policies
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 11:39 AM
Jan 2022

..and centrist on others?
Poiticians can be be either depending on the issue.

Labelling is for division. Why do that?

brooklynite

(94,604 posts)
20. Labeling is for simplicity
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 11:42 AM
Jan 2022

Bernie Sanders would clearly be labeled as a progressive/leftist, despite his support for military aircraft contracts.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
21. Or the nuke waste dump in Sierra Blanca Tx debacle. Or the "Rape Fantasies" he wrote
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 01:21 PM
Jan 2022

Or the NO vote on the ever powerful Magnitsky Act.
I wouldn't label him as progressive, by the standards set by Sen Paul Wellstne & his Progressive Party.

Bernie is a Populist/Independent.

The truth of a Progressive is found in their consistant record of works, not in their record of talks in the Media.




PortTack

(32,778 posts)
13. No one hates politico more than me, but yes Kelly is centrist..sorry to say!
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 01:50 AM
Jan 2022

After his swearing in ceremony he said he would be the “independent” senator AZ needs...geez

The AZ Dems have worked their butts off for sinema and Kelly. We all know what sinema is about, but Kelly, he better wise up. Those voter laws are going to show him the door! WE NEED VOTING RIGHTS!!! He of all ppl should know that

manicdem

(389 posts)
22. Repubs in power in 2024
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 02:21 PM
Jan 2022

I'm not for eliminating the fillibuster. Repubs will eventually take congress and presidency some day, and there's a high likelyhood that will be in 2024 with the voting rights bill or not. I don't know why we keep pushing through congress that have a 100% chance of failing. We need to get some wins, even small ones, for the upcoming elections. Complaints don't win elections.

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