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EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:16 PM Jan 2022

Elvis Costello asks radio stations not to play Oliver's Army

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59950583

Elvis Costello has revealed he will no longer perform his biggest hit, Oliver's Army, and has also asked radio stations to stop playing the song.
Written about the conflict in Northern Ireland, the lyrics contain a racial slur used to describe Irish Catholics.

"That's what my grandfather was called in the British army - it's historically a fact," he told The Telegraph.
"But people hear that word... and accuse me of something that I didn't intend."

Released in 1979, Oliver's Army was played unedited on radio stations for decades - but as the word became increasingly taboo, many took the decision to bleep the lyrics.

On his last tour, Costello rewrote the song to address being "cut down by the censors", singling out the BBC, which attracted criticism for editing the song in 2013.
"They're making it worse by bleeping it, for sure," he told The Telegraph. "Because they're highlighting it then. Just don't play the record!"
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Elvis Costello asks radio stations not to play Oliver's Army (Original Post) EX500rider Jan 2022 OP
Yikes: It's 'white n----r' CurtEastPoint Jan 2022 #1
As he says, it was a common term for Irish Catholics. Not pretty. As an Scrivener7 Jan 2022 #2
I've never heard that till now re: Irish Catholics. I'm sorry. CurtEastPoint Jan 2022 #5
Not in my time, thank God. But my grandfather had stories that could curl your hair Scrivener7 Jan 2022 #6
Seriously? PatSeg Jan 2022 #3
One the catchiest off Armed Forces. maxsolomon Jan 2022 #13
The only anti-Catholic slur I ever heard growing up SCantiGOP Jan 2022 #9
You never heard "Mick"? or "Paddy Wagon"? Those are specific for Irish Catholics. maxsolomon Jan 2022 #14
Yes on Mick SCantiGOP Jan 2022 #17
Costello didn't really understand the impact of that word in the US AZSkiffyGeek Jan 2022 #4
Yeah, it's pretty hard to ignore that incident... regnaD kciN Jan 2022 #24
The song was never a hit here Freddie Jan 2022 #7
The only time I've heard the song played is... tenderfoot Jan 2022 #8
Me too Freddie Jan 2022 #12
Sirius XM "First Wave" station has it on regluar rotation. Coventina Jan 2022 #10
Interesting... i've several times heard the song was about something else entirely... Ohio Joe Jan 2022 #11
I always thought it was about mercenaries maxsolomon Jan 2022 #15
"Oliver" is Oliver Cromwell Effete Snob Jan 2022 #16
I think it's a different Oliver Retrograde Jan 2022 #20
. Effete Snob Jan 2022 #21
That's the great thing about art Retrograde Jan 2022 #22
Yes but in this instance... Effete Snob Jan 2022 #23
It is - and mercenaries were being used by apartheid South Africa in Namibia then muriel_volestrangler Jan 2022 #19
His biggest hit in the UK - reached no. 2 muriel_volestrangler Jan 2022 #18

Scrivener7

(50,956 posts)
2. As he says, it was a common term for Irish Catholics. Not pretty. As an
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:33 PM
Jan 2022

Irish person raised Catholic I don't like it, but it was what we were called - there and here - for generations. Probably in the US up till WW2. Certainly very common before WW1.

And in Northern Ireland, till more recently.

Scrivener7

(50,956 posts)
6. Not in my time, thank God. But my grandfather had stories that could curl your hair
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:47 PM
Jan 2022

about growing up Irish Catholic in NYC in the nineteen tens.

PatSeg

(47,512 posts)
3. Seriously?
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:35 PM
Jan 2022

I really don't remember the song, but I understand why Costello doesn't want it played on the radio.

SCantiGOP

(13,871 posts)
9. The only anti-Catholic slur I ever heard growing up
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:52 PM
Jan 2022

(and it was used jokingly by friends of mine) was Mackerel Snapper, after the Catholic practice of eating fish rather than meat on Fridays.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
14. You never heard "Mick"? or "Paddy Wagon"? Those are specific for Irish Catholics.
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 07:28 PM
Jan 2022

The Paddy Wagon being used by the Police because "the Irish were such drunks".

My Grandfather's barroom buddies called each other derisive ethnic slurs constantly: Polack, Kike, Mick, Dago, Kraut...

AZSkiffyGeek

(11,030 posts)
4. Costello didn't really understand the impact of that word in the US
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:38 PM
Jan 2022

Until Bonnie Bramlett knocked his ass out for calling Ray Charles and James Brown it...

regnaD kciN

(26,044 posts)
24. Yeah, it's pretty hard to ignore that incident...
Wed Jan 12, 2022, 02:18 AM
Jan 2022

I know that Costello insists he was drunk and just trying to provoke outrage, but…isn’t that the same thing Clapton claimed about his “white power” tirade back in the ‘70s?

Freddie

(9,268 posts)
7. The song was never a hit here
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:48 PM
Jan 2022

It’s about a historical event we Yanks don’t know much (if anything) about. All we hear is “that word”. I think he’s correct in deleting it from his playlist. He has a HUGE catalog of great stuff to pick from.

tenderfoot

(8,437 posts)
8. The only time I've heard the song played is...
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:51 PM
Jan 2022

in my house - I have it on vinyl, cd and cassette - my friends house/car, a random party and alternative/college radio stations.

Coventina

(27,121 posts)
10. Sirius XM "First Wave" station has it on regluar rotation.
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:53 PM
Jan 2022

A bit to my surprise.

I guess I'm the exception here, in that I always understood the context of his use of the term (treating people as cannon fodder).
But, I totally understand that the use is problematic.
I'm glad to see Costello addressing the issue.

Ohio Joe

(21,760 posts)
11. Interesting... i've several times heard the song was about something else entirely...
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 05:59 PM
Jan 2022

Back in the late 80's, shortly after I first became a programmer, we were out at a happy hour when the song came on. Someone there said it was about life as a programmer. Throughout the years, I've heard a number of other programmers make the same claim. I never looked into it because... Well, I just did not care all that much what it was about.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
15. I always thought it was about mercenaries
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 07:32 PM
Jan 2022

The line about "we could send you to Johannesburg".

I guess that's just part of the meaning...

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
16. "Oliver" is Oliver Cromwell
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 07:40 PM
Jan 2022

It is about the British army and refers to a number of places where the British Empire fought - e.g. the first and second Boer Wars in South Africa.

Retrograde

(10,137 posts)
20. I think it's a different Oliver
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 11:27 PM
Jan 2022

there's also a reference to a Mr. Churchill, whom I don't think is Winston. But I'm not up to speed on 1970s Tory politicians.

It came out during the Thatcher years, when unemployment in Britain - especially among young working-class men - was high. It is about mercenaries, and that being one of the few jobs available to "the boys from the Mersey and the Thames and the Tyne", former industrial areas that had lost a lot of working class and especially entry level jobs by that time.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
21. .
Wed Jan 12, 2022, 12:06 AM
Jan 2022
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver%27s_Army

“ According to Sound on Sound, the title "Oliver" refers to English Parliamentarian leader Oliver Cromwell, who personally led the English forces which subjugated Ireland in 1649. In addition to the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the song references other "imperialist" conflicts in Hong Kong, Palestine and South Africa.”

https://www.songfacts.com/facts/elvis-costello/olivers-army

The title is a reference to Oliver Cromwell, leader of of the Parliamentary army in the English Civil War against the Royalist army of Charles 1. Among other things, he established what was called The New Model Army, which was the first professional, properly trained and drilled fighting force England had. Costello's song is a general anti-military statement, but its main target is how the only real option the unemployed have is to join the army (British unemployment figures were at an all-time high when he wrote the song in the early '80s). It doesn't have anything particular to do with Cromwell, other than the title.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,322 posts)
18. His biggest hit in the UK - reached no. 2
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 07:58 PM
Jan 2022

Looks like he never had much success in singles in the USA - the highest Wikipedia lists is "Veronica", reaching #19, and he (with or without The Attractions) had 6 more successful singles than that in the UK.

I've wondered about that lyric for some time. The context is that if you sign up as a mercenary, you might be killed, and the guys signing you up (or hiring them) don't care - you're just a (insert slur here) to them. But it does jar.

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