Something has been bothering the Hell out of me...

[Ferretherder]

(this will be long,, very sorry)...and I just have to ask a question, and get some feedback, to see if it's just me that feels this way, or maybe,....well, first a little background.
I just read a news story about people in America moving to different states, or even specific cities, to be around 'politically like-minded' people - and how this is polarizing our country more and more. The story also featured a few words from an author of a book about this very phenomenon, and how he felt the polarizing of our political environment is escalating and how unhealthy it is for this country's society-at-large.
Here is where my heart began to sink...because I and my wife live in Monroe(West Monroe, specifically) Louisiana - about as red a place as you will find in this country - and we would LOVE to be around more progressive and open-minded people, and the thought that this is bad for our country's political future is demoralizing and depressing as hell...because it would be such a wonderful thing for OUR lives and OUR mental health, and WHY should WE have to make a sacrifice like being in a hostile environment of antagonistic people that we absolutely don't have ANYTHING in common with, to try to make some kind of geopolitical 'parity' statement by staying put? The author lamented that if we just congregate with like-minded people, our political discourse deteriorates to 'echo chambers' of disparate little populations of people who never influence a change of heart in an opposing faction's political thought, because they never interact with those political groups.
Here is my honest, heartfelt question - and, in no way is the irony of my posing this question on a liberal forum lost on me - why do I have to defend what I know in my heart to be right and true: that truth and understanding and compassion and tolerance are the hallmarks of a healthy society, and caring for ALL people on this planet is the highest goal of becoming a wholly enlightened human being. Why should I NOT want to be around people who think this way? My dilemma is worrying about being 'close-minded', so to speak, to opposing views...but HOW can I open up to the possibility that beliefs that I hold to be unshakable truths and, more importantly, the RIGHT thing for a caring and inclusive society could possibly be, in some way, misguided?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, why should we, as progressives, feel the need to try to defend doing 'the right thing' to people who are so antisocial and hateful as today's republican party? I just feel depressed as hell that doing right by your fellow human beings is looked on in today's distopian republican America as being a 'stupid liberal' or a 'socialist' or, (gasp) a 'communist'! I DO feel WE are the ones that history will vindicate...I have to believe this...

...for my own sanity. (Thanks for reading this long-assed, and somewhat cathartic, post...sorry, no happy ending)

[jimfields33]

1. You don't have to move. Most won't.

They say 22 percent live like this. A minority. The reason for the story is that it was 6 percent a few decades ago. I’d stay put if you love where you live as many will as well.

[treestar]

2. The right is a lot worse when it comes to the echo chamber

They really created a cocoon, a cut-off Jonestown via technology, where they just dismiss what they don't want to be true and believe whatever they want to be true without proof.

The blue areas are still natural, taking in all facts, and sometimes disagreeing. That is the herding cats problem of why the left won't stick together like the right does. So I don't think it would be a narrow minded echo chamber to be in a blue area. But the it make the red area even worse.

[ms liberty]

3. I understand the dilemma . I live in a rural, very red county in NC

I would move in a heartbeat, but my husband wouldn't even think about it while his mom is here. I considered him marriage material when I saw how well he treated his mom. We've been married 27 years now, so I think it was a good indicator!

[gab13by13]

4. Well said,

I live among them in central Pa. If I golf with them I tell them no politics. Whatever event I am with them I tell them no politics.

They can't help themselves so I listen and then I respond, not in a confrontational form, because that doesn't work, but I give them little bits of food for thought. I give them little zingers to make them think a little bit outside their bubbles.

My aim isn't to convert them, I would go mad if it were. My aim is to make them a little bit less rabid and I think I am doing that with some of them. Some, I flat out avoid even giving them zingers. One can't carry on a polite conversation with a zombie.

[chia]

5. Saw the article, have issue with the premise. Most large cities have/had ethnic neighborhoods,

or cultural neighborhoods: Polish, German, Jewish, Irish, Catholic, Chinese, Black, and so on. That's a bad thing if forced (i.e. redlining in the U.S., Jewish ghettos of the Holocaust) and a good thing for those who desire it under good circumstances, particularly for immigrants who can acclimate to the U.S. gradually by living in a neighborhood where there are more likely to be neighbors who share their language and culture.

What you're talking about, with the article in question, are ideological neighborhoods. And similarly, if you desire it, and under good circumstances you can make it happen - go for it. It seems all but impossible to find common ground with MAGA. You shouldn't have to live with it if you're able to get away from it. Not everyone can move, but if you can, you shouldn't feel obligated to take one for the team.

[hlthe2b]

6. Well, count me in as one who proves the point. My move back to my beloved Colorado (then

showing definitive signs of "purple" politically) from several years in the deep south was not merely for political reasons, but that was a damned nice bonus. That it was destiny came when the person I almost literally ran into at the Atlanta airport on my way out was none other than my detested then-Congressman, the forever sneering Newt Gingrich--fresh after a humiliating loss of support as Speaker--essentially deposed by his own. If I needed a signal I was doing the right thing, well, I got it in spades.

We have our pockets of regressive RW or libertarian to the detriment of all in areas of Colorado, but in the years since returning to my true home, my efforts along with many others have gone a long way to preserving the blue. Do I feel heartened at the small changes in GA's political system since? You bet. And I will do what I can to help that movement, both financially and with time spent on phone banking, etc. But, I'm a much calmer person now living in an area not overwhelmed with RWers spewing hate.

But, for those who stay in red areas and work for change, I have nothing but admiration and I will do what I can to support them. We all have to make our decisions based on a myriad of issues and the fight is the fight wherever we are.

[mopinko]

7. i just rented a house in chicago to a family escaping from utah.

they are so freakin happy. married couple and 21 yo son.
raised in casper wy. so over the righties, and their boiled down culture. and they were in slc, she worked at the u. not like she was in podunk.
they had a month to settle in before he started the job he came for, and they had the best time exploring the city. had a nice warm dec, just for them.

yeah, i'm w you. it rly is about more than who you vote for.

[scarletlib]

8. I, myself, no longer talk to most MAGA's or hard right conservatives.

I just don’t like to argue. It’s too upsetting to me.

In areas where you have a lot of church going conservatives, you could start with Jesus. What did Jesus preach if not love and compassion for others, tolerance and forgiveness, taking care of the “least of these”?

In the Gospels, he not only preached the words he acted them. He fed the poor (Miracle of the loaves and fish). Forgiveness of those who hurt him etc.

Liberals as a whole espouse these ideals and try to enact policies to do just that.

Good luck if you try.

I have never been a hater unwilling to forgive, but it is increasingly difficult for me to refrain from such emotions in listening to these people and seeing what they do.

[catrose]

9. Amen!

[Karadeniz]

10. I'm sure lots of people here share your situation and feeling. Don't personally try to defend your

values to those without values. You can't get through the defenses their Minds have created to protect their egos. I won't go into Mind because I've beaten that horse dead here, but their Minds are concerned only with themselves. To desire justice means considering all sides. Equality concerns others. Sympathy and compassion by definition includes others. Generosity... others. Kindness... others.

Their outlooks have been condoned by centuries of ignorance fostered by church and state. Church could help tremendously, but they teach what they've been told and their theology benefits them.

Leaving home for a more congenial comfort zone isn't a long-term solution. Stay where you are and demonstrate your values. If you attend a church, speak to your pastor about having sermons and activities that encourage Jesus's fundamental messages of loving one's neighbor.

That's all for now.

[Samrob]

11. I believe progressives should move all over the country. Stake a claim to truth and justice.

Encourage others to do the same. We can take the country back for justice and truth and harmony if only one neighborhood at a time. The GOP uses all kinds of hidden money to build and invest in certain areas around the USA. Sometimes using government measures to move in enclaves of immigrants from selected right-wing autocracies. They come in small groups, buy properties and land (a way to launder ill-gained $$ from their native countries. Some of our wealthiest do the same in reverse.)l and form active voting blocks in those small red areas that report in early on election night.

We must not allow ourselves to be removed from the places we seek to live. I get calls every day from real estate agents offering to purchase my condo for as much as 3X my last valuation which was three months ago. I refuse to move. I have been here for 26 years. Great schools, diverse neighborhood when we moved in, walking distance to popular mall, public transportation almost at the front door, close to the hubs of county and Federal governments. Quite a few have sold for the hefty cash offer. 260 units. At least 60% have been sold and everyone of them was sold to foreign language family....can't say if they are immigrants or not but most do not speak English as a first language. Russian, Iranian, and French. Those of us who have been here for more than 10 years try to be friendly to the newbies and for the most part they are friendly too. But here is what I noticed over the past four elections. Our once deep blue county is getting more and more pale blue to purple. Sitting in on condo board meetings is becoming unbearable as the tone is much more hostile with all of the Board save one, having lived here less than 6 years. We old-timers still run for Board seats but never seem to be able to win against suspected voting blocks. Just a glimpse of what is going on where I live so I know the feeling of depression when you sense being surrounded by conservative thinking and actions.

[forthemiddle]

12. This goes both ways

As I’m sure you realize, and I’m not trying to “call you out”, so please don’t take this the wrong way. Should those that live in San Francisco, Austin Tx, or Madison Wisconsin for example be more receptive to the ideas of the far right? Of course not!
Maybe I seen it in a different way because I have always lived among those that think differently than me. My family and friends are almost evenly split between Republicans and Democrats. Life would be so boring if everyone agreed with me.
Just as I would hate to not live in a diversity of cultures and ethnicity, I would also hate to live among all liberals.
We don’t always agree on everything (or anything LOL), but every conversation is an opportunity to learn something new, or to look at something in a new way. That doesn’t mean I will change my mind, but maybe they will!

[Sympthsical]

13. I don't get where people are arguing with their neighbors all the time

In my twenty years of adulthood, I have never gotten into it with neighbors about politics. It's never crossed my mind to touch it. I know the demographics. Right now, I live in a 2/3 Democratic area. However, I also live literally a block away from where the rural starts.

Why would I preoccupy myself with that or introduce that into my life?

A lot of things I see, particularly when it comes to where one lives, is that it is often self-inflicted. "Hey, there's a swimming poll over there. I'm going to jump into it!" Then later. "Why do I keep getting wet? Should I move somewhere to stop myself from jumping in pools?" I mean, maybe. If it really bothers you a pool is there and you compulsively jump into it all the time.

I have no idea what my neighbors think all the time, nor am I inclined to ask. I know there's some Trumpists around and some busybody Karens who sit in judgement of all and everyone in between. I'm too worried about my shit to worry about their shit.

Live and let live. People have forgotten that. Now it's, "Believe exactly as I do - and I mean exactly - or you are a horrible person and something must be done."

Toxic way to live one's life no matter what the location. If you don't like where you live, move. I've moved plenty. Never because of politics. Mainly because they are not part of my core identity. Same way I'm not religious. I vote and all that. Argue things sometimes, but if I had to describe myself in, say, five words, my political affiliation wouldn't be in there.

When people become things and identities instead of just people, well, a lot of options are closed and flexibility gives way to dogmatic rigidity.

If you absolutely cannot tolerate the people around you, then move. No one will care except you and your family. If it's best for you, do it.

But no principle, in either direction, is being exercised in the choice. Go where the happiness is. Simple.

[Ferretherder]

14. Thank all of you guys who have responded so far...

...I truly appreciate your viewpoints and encouragement, and look forward to more discussion!
I DO feel that as long as I AM here in this city(born and raised in this area, so I DO love SOME aspects of my home state), I at least have to try to live by example...it's really all I can do, I feel.

...and VOTE!

[Nanuke]

15. Here's an easy question.

Four kids born and raised in Minnesota (often considered a liberal state). As adults, three of the four are “bleeding heart” liberals (and proud of it I may add). One became conservative, to the point of voting for Slobfather once. Guess which one now lives in FLorida, while the others are happy to live out their lives in Minnesota?

[KS Toronado]

21. The one brainwashed by FQX?

[Warpy]

16. Ah, the isolation of being surrounded by people who believe bullshit

is what drove me to leave Dixie in the late 60s. I fled to Boston, where there were enough Irish people that most understood my sense of humor. That was an improvement, but I was still isolated in a sea of bullshit believers, it was just different bullshit.

I have long preserved what I laughingly call my sanity by going Emily Post on all but people I know well enough to know they won't launch into a tirade if they disagree with anything I say. With acquaintances I find I can live a happier life if I don't know about their crackpot politics, screwball religions, or kinky sex lives. I just don't want to know, thanks. It helps that I don't drink and never go to bars where people are disinhibited and prone to perseveration (Medicalese, sorry, but they're the right words).

If you do go to bars to find a social life, all I can say is grow a thick skin. People who are drinking are going to come out with a lot of unacceptable bullshit they'd never say when they're sober because that's what alcohol does.

Good luck, whatever you decide. And remember, they think you're the one who's full of bullshit and they might be partially right. I know that's true in my own case.

[Ferretherder]

27. I am certainly aware that I am far short of perfect,...

...therefore, I agree with you about them thinking I just might be the one who's full of shit! That part is OK. People can disagree and still let bygones be bygones. The part that isn't OK is when one group feels that you are not just terribly wrong, but you are their ENEMY, all because you don't believe exactly what they believe, and that belief rules every aspect of their lives...and if that belief is based on falsehoods and complete conjecture, they are unable to be reasoned with, because logic will not penetrate their fortress of lies, no matter how long one tries to make them see the truth. It is very frustrating...

Thanks for your input...I used to post here all the time - mostly lurk, now. But I come here every day for a little dose of sanity. Your posts always seem reasoned and sensible.

[bucolic_frolic]

17. Don't ask why, don't doubt yourself, just snub, ignore, boycott, shun them to oblivion

When they are left holding the bag - being bagholders - of their negative energy, deprived of participation in a loving, caring, prosperous society, they will question their judgment and some of them will change their behaviors. The rest will be in jail or dead from covid.

[hay rick]

18. Fox News has rotted out their souls.

I no longer think of most Republicans as people, I think of them as the walking dead. The problem with promoting dialogue is that dialogue requires mutual respect and that is no longer possible in many cases.

[Ferretherder]

28. Totally agree.

n/t

[yardwork]

19. I live in one of the most progressive small cities in the nation.

I like it here and have no intention of leaving. It's a red/purple state so I guess I get a little (accidental) credit for that - I mean, my vote for governor, senators, president matters every election. And there are lots of heartbreaks.

In local elections, my choices range from "progressive" to "very progressive" with an occasional moderate who runs for the hell of it and almost never wins.

My city wasn't always like this. For many decades a conservative white minority had control. My local votes mattered. My votes for statewide offices still matter very much.

I don't believe in the concept of safe districts. There's a lot of work to be done everywhere. Live where you choose, in a community that sustains you. There's plenty of work to be done everywhere! Don't let a columnist bother you - the writer probably lives in Brooklyn.

[Ferretherder]

29. Lol!

[Traildogbob]

20. History

Will not look favorably on progressives. Texas writes text books. Liberal history will not be allowed to be taught in schools. It will destroy young minds. Can you imagine what history Putin and Kim allows to be taught. Assuming there is even a future that will be around to teach anything. Cockroaches and rats will just be laughing with joy at that once stupid species no longer destroying everything. They will remove ALL the statues that honored that invasive species.

[Ferretherder]

30. My worst nightmare...

.. and I sometimes feel there is no avoiding it.

[panader0]

22. Your progressive views have more weight in a red area than in one where everyone shares your ideas.

There is an element of danger due to the chance of violence. I wouldn't go around with a bunch
of Biden/Harris bumper stickers on my vehicle for example.
I may be wrong, but I think the extreme right will lose strength in the future, maybe the near future.
trump will be indicted (eventually) and hopefully, Repubs may return to their less aggressive past.
Young people are more liberal than ever and the die hard reds will fade.
I agree that Democrats need more representation in the rural areas. I live in a rural, fairly red area
and don't have any issues with people around here. I love living in the country with lots of elbow room.
I don't think I could handle city life.

[Kali]

23. I have a small Biden Harris sticker on my car. along with the BEEF plates, I like to think

heads explode.

I enjoy wearing a mask into the Willcox sale barn to collect my check too.

[panader0]

24. I wish I had a big freezer and I could buy a side of beef from you.

How much would something like that (the beef, not the freezer) cost, including the butcher?

[Kali]

25. too dang much!

here is what Willcox Packing charges for beef they supply. I would have to charge similar or you would buy a share of a live animal and pay the processing which ends up being close to the same thing.

https://willcoxpackinghouse.com/buy-from-us-2/

https://willcoxpackinghouse.com/page/

[I_UndergroundPanther]

39. Wow thats expensive

Wish I could have a chest freezer but my landlord sez nope .

[Kali]

40. yeah, the only real saving is raising your own animals

and if you don't care for grass fed, even that is pretty expensive when you get to feeding for 90 to 150 days of grain. the economy of scale that conventional ag has evolved to has a lot of negatives, but it does allow many people to eat better than they would otherwise.

[electric_blue68]

26. If you are living in a rural area is there any chance that there's a purple town, suburb, or

small city in Your State you'd be willing to move to? Or even a violet area (violet is more on the bluer side but not blue). It's not a term used in this kind of charting red to blue areas, but I'm calling it as such. 🙂

Sacrificing your mental, emotional health that often isn't good for you if you're finding it now just too stressful to deal with anymore.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[Ferretherder]

31. New Orleans, probably parts of Baton Rouge...

...not many other places in this state that I know of. Immediate family is all that keeps me here(I'm the only liberal...sigh). DU helps...a LOT.

[electric_blue68]

32. Of course, New Orleans (I'd momentarily forgot as I was typing what State u were in) ...

Rough place to be in. 😔

Glad DU helps you!


I saw DU briefly on line when they'd soon arrived back in the day but I only had access to the net at the library or net cafes, so I forgot to look for it

Then in mid '20 as my usual site for liberal political talk (a sub forum on a progressive music band's site) just wasn't getting enough posts anymore for my TFG angst etc -
I googled up DU.

Lo & behold I was happily shocked to see it'd been going strong for these 2 decades! So I jumped right in. Get the "fix" I need. 👍

Stay safe down there!

[Ferretherder]

33. Will do, my friend,...

...and you, as well!

[electric_blue68]

34. 👍...

Mostly I have to worry about covid being 68 & overwight.

But I live in NYC, and not in the TFG zones in
southern Staten Island, certain southern parts of Brooklyn, probably some more northern of The Bronx (I live in the very western below the mid line (but not the south Bronx), and some parts of eastern Queens.

We out number them 3 to 1, or closer to ?4 to 1.

When I moved to The Bronx - it's the only Burrough of the five that's actually on the Continental US.


Look at you you get a free geopolitical lesson about NYC & it's 5 Burroughs! 😄

See u around the threads. 👋

[ymetca]

35. Funny how

these "too much polarization" stories always seem to run whenever large groups of the oppressed start to organize for change. MLK was "polarizing" too. That didn't make him wrong.

I live in a really red State, but I am constantly surprised by just how "liberal" and "progressive" most people really are. But the system is designed on purpose to make us think there just isn't enough for everybody. We are constantly inundated with false choices, driven by greed and avarice. What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and yet lose his immortal soul?

Methinks this "too much polarization" stuff is just a ploy, trying to pigeonhole us into "Left" and "Right" categories, when the reality is there is a tiny minority of obscenely rich sociopaths running the world right now. It cannot last much longer.

Keep up the resistance, find solidarity with whomever is around you, and treat everyone, always, with kindness and respect. For your home just happens to be where you are sitting right now.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

[Ferretherder]

36. Agree wholeheartedly!...

...and thanks for the encouragement! We can't let Fascism take hold in this country, if it is in our power to prevent it, but the 'obscenely rich sociopaths' you spoke of will stop short of nothing to try and consolidate their wealth and ultimate control of this nation.
It is really scary stuff...when roughly half the people in this country country are their more-than-willing accomplices!...idiots.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

37. If I was living in the red south

I would have already moved to a liberal area.
Being transgendered I would have left as soon as trump ran for office.

I stay the fuck away from the south. And since my mom died I dont have to go to virginia to see her while my aunt was taking care of her.

When I was like 22 I had my punk look.I went into a Roses store my cousin worked at. To kill time until she got off work I looked at stuff in the store.

Bought a nice set of ankh earrings. My cousin saw the store staff shadowing me. She told them off and they were mortified. She told me if that happens again just get her.

Virginia was paranoid of left wingers for as long as I can remember. My grandma lived there had tons of friends,she had a Hillary Clinton display to die for.

If she did that today,I would be scared shitless some magat thug would hurt her,damage her house or car.

If she was supporting Biden because she would I would be going down there with my sister and bil to shore up security at her house,put up cameras install a ring etc.

During Biden's election her butt would be up here watching the election.

[Martin Eden]

38. You should not feel guilty about doing what's best for your own well being

To live amidst Trumpers is to live in a hostile environment among people who believe you are an enemy of America. Life can be difficult enough without that kind of distress piled on.

The diehard MAGA types are beyond reach, and they flaunt their beliefs with red hats, Trump banners, and bumper stickers. They've turned townhall and school board meetings into hideous displays of ignorance and hate. Why subject yourself to being surrounded by that?

I am reminded of the old adage to find the tranquility to accept the things you cannot change; the courage to change the things you can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

You can't change those who worship at the feet of TFG, but you can change your address if that will help to ease the burden we all feel about the threats to American democracy. Those of us who live in blue areas feel that burden even though we're not confronted on a daily basis by ugly displays of Trumpism all around us.

Choosing to live in a less hostile environment does not mean you are entering an echo chamber bereft of a diversity of ideas and conversation. No community is entirely homogeneous. There are conservatives and independents who despise Trump, and everyday folks for whom political ideology barely touches their lives.

And you yourself are free to go wherever your mind and heart and curiosity take you in what you watch and read. We can make a conscious effort to avoid confirmation bias and seek perspectives and ideas different from our own that aren't full of ignorance and hate.

We still live in a country where for the most part life is what you choose to make of it. I'm not suggesting you stop caring and trying to make our world a better place for future generations; I'm suggesting you have the courage and wisdom to make changes in your own personal situation that will eliminate the unnecessary stress of living in a hostile environment where your efforts to influence hearts and minds are futile and frustrating.

Every one of us can do our little part on a daily basis with small acts of kindness and civility. You can do that anywhere -- even in red meat country -- but feel free to move somewhere else without guilt if doing so will make you happier.

Peace,
Martin