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H2O Man

(73,690 posts)
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 04:02 PM Mar 2022

Man and Superman

"The art of government is the organization of idolatry." -- George Bernard Shaw; Man and Superman.


Four people stopped at my house yesterday, and two so far today. The number one topic is the Russian military invasion of Ukraine, and the destruction and suffering it has caused. Some think it is time for the US, NATO, and/or the United Nations to step up and protect the people of Ukraine, while others are convinced that would lead to another "world war." Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course, and mine includes some of the social dynamics that I've commented on here on this forum for years. Let's take a look.

Sociologists recognize three basic types of leadership: traditional, bureaucratic, and charismatic. Since traditional leadership was found primarily in pre-industrial societies, we can focus on the other two as we compare Putin and Zelenskyy. Putin is, by definition, a bureaucrat. He is a specific type, who believes in exercising autocratic power. Reports indicate that he has been isolated -- likely to avoid Covid -- and that seems to have amplified his Cluster B personality traits. In some troubling ways, Putin has begun to resemble a severely disease villain from a James Bond film in real life.

People recognize that Putin is a bully, prone to making threats, yet his statements about nuclear weapons have to be taken for something that has, at least on some level, crossed his mind. Still, it is important to understand that bureaucrats -- even the blustering bullies -- tend to follow the processes of the bureaucracy they head. Thus, if Putin continues to be frustrated, he will place blame on those just below him. Like Trump, he will then select benvh players to replace them. And that contains some real dangers.

If he becomes more paranoid, especially if he thinks the US and NATO are actively assisting Ukraine, creating problems for the Russian military, he would be more likely to attempt other forms of wardare than immediately using nuclear weapons. That includes a number of options, from attacking the grids of the US and NATO countries, to perhaps resorting to biological wardare in Ukraine. There is no way to predict if the Russian military and intelligence would go along with this. It becomes more likely they would remove him if he demanded nuclear attacks.

One can only speculate at this point, but I think that Putin's time as the idol Shaw describes is running out. The planning of the invasion of Ukraine, while extremely brutal, has not gone as expected. Things have gone a wee-bit differently than in the past conflicts that Putin has been involved in around the borders of Russia. The sanctions that the Biden administration has led the global community to place on Russia are far more intense than Putin expected. Putin did not expect 20,000-plus miltary and medical volunteers from distant lands -- including Canada and the US -- to travel to Ukraine to fight the Russian army. He did not anticipate the condemnation of the global community. Instead, he thought the invasion would solidify the reputation he seeks, as a feared superman. But he is now exposed as a vile little man.

Contrast that to the law school graduate turned comedian who became the president of Ukraine. Is there any wonder why Putin wants Zelenskyy killed? For Zelenskyy, who has an above average grasp of bureaucratic systems, was elected with 73% of the votes. He stood his ground when Trump attempted to strong-arm him. And he has transformed into the most charismatic leader in the world as he leads the fight against Russia. Unlike Putin, he has not sought the safety of isolation far from the conflict. Rather, he has become the voice of the Ukrainian people, expressing their thoughts, fears, and desires. Again, the complete opposite of Putin.

Throughout history, charismatic leaders have been compared to shooting stars that create a bright but brief display of light. Many have been killed by enemies, others by former close aides, while very few have reached old age. However, it seems possible, perhaps even likely, that Zelenskyy will survive longer than Putin. And that, my Friends, is Putin's biggest fear -- that if the Russian people were able to access accurate information, that they, too, will demand democracy.

Peace,
H2O Man

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Man and Superman (Original Post) H2O Man Mar 2022 OP
Excellent BeyondGeography Mar 2022 #1
Thanks! H2O Man Mar 2022 #5
Sadly WaterMan people across the planet malaise Mar 2022 #2
I hear you. H2O Man Mar 2022 #7
Thanks bro malaise Mar 2022 #10
These days: H2O Man Mar 2022 #13
True re the natural world malaise Mar 2022 #15
Your "life struggle for the social good for all" is not a wasted dream. panader0 Mar 2022 #17
Thank you panader0 malaise Mar 2022 #18
Your spirit shines through your words Sister. panader0 Mar 2022 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author malaise Mar 2022 #3
Very good analysis. Tomconroy Mar 2022 #4
Thank you! H2O Man Mar 2022 #8
KnR. Thought-provoking as always Hekate Mar 2022 #6
Thanks! H2O Man Mar 2022 #9
...K&R... spanone Mar 2022 #11
Thank you! H2O Man Mar 2022 #12
Wonderful! Elessar Zappa Mar 2022 #14
Thank you! H2O Man Mar 2022 #16
Well, Putin knows for sure that the US and NATO countries are actively assisting Ukraine. panader0 Mar 2022 #19
Right. H2O Man Mar 2022 #21

BeyondGeography

(39,393 posts)
1. Excellent
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 04:52 PM
Mar 2022

At the end of the day, Putin is asking far too much of everyone, including his own people. In return for nothing more tangible than extended misery. A corrective will emerge.

Thanks, Waterman.

H2O Man

(73,690 posts)
5. Thanks!
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 05:36 PM
Mar 2022

I think that while things will get worse in the near term, there will be a turn around in time. The military people are not wealthy, and are generally more interested in Russia than in Putin. I do take pity upon the poor kids that didn't know why they were being sent in to Ukraine, and are being killed. Their families are unlikely to view their death as for a noble cause.

malaise

(269,277 posts)
2. Sadly WaterMan people across the planet
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 04:54 PM
Mar 2022

including in the USA want democracy, but we are getting kakistocracies or oligarchies.
When it is near war to provide health care, a decent education, infrastructure, etc because the rich won't pay taxes, what exactly is this democracy today? Whether we call them oligarchs or corporate billionaires, it is the wealthy who finance our parties and set the rules and parameters for debate.

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that my life struggle for the social good for all has been a wasted dream.

H2O Man

(73,690 posts)
7. I hear you.
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 05:54 PM
Mar 2022

As I age, I look back on things I worked on, and wonder what I actually accomplished. That's a fair question, of course, but one that I suspect has more to do with the part about my aging, than if I actually did any good. I have to remind myself that the "negative force" is always there -- since before we were born, and it will be there long after we are gone. We did our best to keep it away, though it sure as heck is making a comeback these days.

I watch the news about Ukraine, and parts are painful to see, while other parts are encouraging. Still, I think to myself about how I've gone from being an angry young man, not opposed to violence, to an old man who is convinced that the way of Gandhi and King was correct. It makes me sad to hear Americans saying, "I never expected another war in Europe, after WW2." What? perhaps they haven't paid attention. Perhaps they do not recognize the racism in assuming white Europe is more civilized than the rest of the non-white world. It reminds me of a line from Lennon's song, Serve Yerself: "...bomb ya back into the stone age, if you won't live like me."

Then I think that it is likely that I am supposed to be the cranky old man that I am, at this exact time. From my life's experience, I can tell younger folk that things do not have to be this way, that they can change for the better. It's an option that is one of several available to us today, starting right now. Because the connection between society changing -- for the better or worse -- is always connected with individual people changing -- for better or worse. And, as much as we might wish otherwise, everything will continue to change, just as it always has and will.

H2O Man

(73,690 posts)
13. These days:
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 08:02 PM
Mar 2022

Here is something that I posted on a few other social-political forums last week:



An old dead tree, blown over by last night's high winds, lay across the path to the pond. It spooked the dog, who gave it a mighty good barking until I could convince her it was okay to step around. At the pond, she had fun digging holes in the ice, and uncovering the water she enjoys wading in during the warmer months. There are three springs gurgling water into the pond. I love that sound. Into the field, I saw two red-tailed hawks, circling high in the sky. A turkey vulture flew over, too. The dog sniffed every inch of ground possible, following our trail from yesterday. Then through the pines at the edge of the woods, where a dog can easily mistake pine cones for chew-toys. Eventually, something in the woods caught my eyes. We approached for a closer view, and I was surprised to see a significant number of robins, busy examining the ground for a meal. In these strange and unsettling times, it is good to get out in the Natural World and appreciate the little things you encounter.


(Plus we must remember McCartney's "it's getting better all the time!" followed by Lennon's "can't get much worse.&quot

malaise

(269,277 posts)
15. True re the natural world
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 08:33 PM
Mar 2022

I do enjoy our morning walks and thankfully the feral cats have me busy taming three kittens.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
17. Your "life struggle for the social good for all" is not a wasted dream.
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 08:51 PM
Mar 2022

It counts very much to everyone you have reached, including many people on this forum.
Never despair, the smallest things can count in a positive way. All things are headed for fruition.

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

H2O Man

(73,690 posts)
9. Thanks!
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 05:57 PM
Mar 2022

I'm doing pretty well lately. Shoveled the snow out from my driveway the other day. Despite the driveway seeming much longer in the winter than the rest of the year, I was able to finish it in one turn of shoveling. Of course, everything started melting hours later!

panader0

(25,816 posts)
19. Well, Putin knows for sure that the US and NATO countries are actively assisting Ukraine.
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 08:58 PM
Mar 2022

Even Japan has now removed Russia from the Most Favored Nation trading status.
But the military setbacks are now not the worst of his problems. The economy is tanking,
and even if Putin dies tomorrow, it will take many years to recover. I fear the specter of
nuclear war, as do we all, but I don't believe that will be in the works. (knocking on wood).
Another fine essay H2O Man. Your love of reading benefits us all.

H2O Man

(73,690 posts)
21. Right.
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 09:32 PM
Mar 2022

I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that Putin suspects the attacks by "Anonymous" include various intelligence sources. (I realize I've said the bet bit for 50 years now, and have no idea how much doughnuts cost. I may need to switch the order there.)

There are things that don't get a lot of attention in the media -- and there can be good reason for that in cases like this. But there's a reason beyond current reporting for why the Russian forces are being frustrated. Why they can't shoot down the drones that take out their tanks. Why they haven't communications among the government, military, and citizens of Ukraine. And it ain't for a lack of trying.

It is sad what it is doing to Russian people, too. And you nailed it: it will take many years for them to recover.

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