"For the children" written on side of Russian rocket that killed dozens at train station

[Calculating]

Good to see the Russians continuing to be world class monsters.
https://news.yahoo.com/russian-rocket-struck-ukrainian-train-145232642.html
A Russian rocket that hit a Ukrainian train station had "For the children" written on the side.

The Friday morning attack in Kramatorsk killed dozens and injured over 100 people, authorities said.

Civilians had flocked to the train station to evacuate the city ahead of an anticipated Russian assault.

A Russian rocket that struck a train station and killed dozens in eastern Ukraine on Friday had a Russian phrase meaning "For the children" written on its side, Ukrainian officials said.

At least 50 people were killed and over 100 were injured after two Russian rockets hit the train station in Kramatorsk, which is in the Donetsk oblast.

Ukraine's communications center tweeted that two children were killed in the attack.

The phrase — seen scrawled in white on the side of a purported Russian rocket in photos and video from the scene of the attack — translates as a message that the missile was sent in vengeance for children, not that it was intended to be used on children.

Russian propaganda has accused Ukrainian troops of killing children even as Russian forces fire on civilian targets, including a theater in Mariupol that was serving as a shelter for residents and children.

[ChazII]

1. Sickening. n/t

[MineralMan]

2. Sadly, I cannot see the preposition

before the word meaning "children" clearly in that photo. The word for children is in the genitive case, though. The preposition, though is only partly visible. The meaning depends largely on which preposition is used, and there are 24 prepositions that require the genitive case of the noun. I wonder if there is a clearer photo somewhere.

However, the most likely preposition, based on the partial characters is Из-за, in all caps. That would mean "because of the children" if that's the one. The preposition that would mean "for the benefit of the children" would be для, but the shape of the last letter doesn't match.

[Hekate]

4. Thank you for noticing. Hopefully another photo will clear it up.

[MineralMan]

7. I edited my post to add a little more detail.

I hope we get a better photo. Russian prepositions carry a lot of the shades of meaning of what is being said or written. It's very complicated, and difficult to translate Russian prepositional phrases without context.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. .

It says за детей, so "on behalf of children," or "for the children." Детей is also the accusative form of "children," and it's used here, with за. If they wanted to imply it was literally for the children it landed on, I would think they'd use для, or simply детям.

[MineralMan]

8. I see the з in another photo.

It doesn't look like из-за, since there isn't room for the entire expression.

So, I think you're right about it being just за.

It's still a pretty fuzzy translation, and subject to interpretation. It could also be ironic in nature.

Unclear.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. It's easier to get when you think of the whole sentence.

"Они сражались за родину," they fought for the motherland; "я голосовал за него," I voted for him.

The article itself says this is the implication; the grabby headline is definitely increasing the confusion, though.

[MineralMan]

12. I saw that in the article. But, that's someone's interpretation of the translation I think.

Here's something from a website on Russian prepositions, as well:

"Many of these prepositions are used in time expressions as well. За+Acc can also mean "for", the antonym of "against (something)".

So, that suggests that the translation was correct.

However, the world of Russian prepositions is very, very confusing at times. I don't pretend to understand all of the nuances. It's one area where being a native speaker can be essential.

This is one of those cases where fogginess enters into the picture, I think.

[TomWilm]

18. "За детей" can be read as "Vengeance for the children"

... since the Russian soldiers are told lies about Ukrainian killings of children in Donbass, that would kind of make more sense.

[MineralMan]

20. Yes, that's possible.

[LisaL]

28. Yep, that's a more accurate translation.

NT

[MineralMan]

14. BTW, I forgot the accusative case.

You're right about the spelling being the same in both accusative and genitive cases. It's been a long time since I've messed around with translating Russian to English. Prepositional phrases were often a tough nut to crack.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. The grammar of Russian prepositions and cases is definitely my jam.

[MineralMan]

16. LOL!

I might have mastered them if I had continued for a few more years. Maybe.

[MineralMan]

21. One of my favorite uses of за requires a noun in the nominative case.

Что это за глупость? - "What is this stupidity?" Or "How stupid is this?"

I first heard that expression at the Syracuse U. USAF Russian language school, when I attempted to say something in Russian, after choosing the wrong word from a British-based English to Russian dictionary. The word I meant to use was supposed to mean "hobo," but I looked up the word "bum" in the dictionary. So, I used the word задница.

The question from the teacher was "What do you want to be in your life?" I said, "я хочу быть задницей." After I spoke, the teacher responded with "Что это за глупость?" Then we got a brief lesson about that idiomatic expression.

I learned an important lesson that day: Always re-translate back into English if you look up words in the dictionary. Much laughter ensued at my expense.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Yes, the use of за as a sometimes negative intensifier has a subtle strength to it.

Mistakes are the best teacher, especially when it comes to learning the nuances of foreign languages. I once used the wrong diminutive with a co-worker, and her reaction taught me more than any professor could have.

[MineralMan]

24. Yes. That was an important lesson for me.

The teacher looked shocked, and then amused. Then she explained what I had said, pointing at that body part on herself. It was hilarious.

[MineralMan]

26. Hmm...I can imagine which diminutive you might have used.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

30. Ha, it makes it sound like harassment, when it was less a "cute diminutive" and more "the short form

that implies disapproval." To my ear, it sounded ironically serious, like, "I'm going to say something serious for a second, but I'm not mad, it's just serious, and then we'll go back to being easygoing colleagues," and she heard it as, "I'm about to drag you in a condescending way." So much in two syllables.

[MineralMan]

31. Yes. Colloquial expressions and diminutives can get you in trouble.

That's true in any language, I suppose. If we're not native speakers, we almost certainly do not get the nuances, and often miss current or alternative meanings for all sorts of words.

We do in in our own native language, too. There are dozens of synonyms that mean girl or woman. Choosing the wrong one can mean insulting the other person. Besides, word meanings change over time. It can be hard to keep up.

For example, the word "boy" is an innocuous word in its simplest meaning. However, using it when addressing some people can be deeply offensive.

Russian is full of colloquial traps for non-native speakers. So, I try to always use the simplest words, especially when speaking of people.

[Celerity]

6. here MM

[lpbk2713]

3. Ukraine hasn't attacked any Russian schools, hospitals, churches or theaters.

Russia can not say the same. The Russians are bloodthirsty barbarians.

[ripcord]

9. Nothing will happen to Russia in the long term

It will be Crimea all over again, the sanctions will fall apart and the UN will send a strongly worded note.

[Celerity]

11. other sites and Russian speaking persons I see (and I asked some too) say 'for our children'

Business Insider seems to have picked a more provocative translation, and probably because that is what Google translate yields







https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-remains-of-a-rocket-with-the-russian-lettering-for-our-news-photo/1239829827

[sakabatou]

17. Say the motherfuckers who hit intentionally hit civilian sites.

The Kremlin has the military wrapped around its finger.

[Emile]

19. Why would Russian people believe Ukraine is killing their children?

People in Russia are that stupid?

[LisaL]

25. They are subjected to a lot of

misinformation by their media.

[Emile]

29. I guess we see it here too with Fox. All other media is fake news.

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. It's been Russian propaganda about the Donbas region since 2014

See https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216578510

[ananda]

23. Russia is a very sick country --

almost as sick as us.

[Calculating]

33. You've got to be joking

Almost as sick as us???

[LisaL]

27. For the children is not a good translation.

More accurate translation would be "because of the children."
Meaning revenge for the children.

[Blueplanet]

32. "because of the children"

LisaL,
This may be a bit far-fetched, but could it possibly refer to Putin's children? Two of his daughters are being sanctioned.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. No.

[Buns_of_Fire]

34. While the world is pondering the subtleties of the message on the side,

a few are probably also pondering how there's enough of the rocket left to be able to read any message at all. It's a good thing that it apparently didn't completely explode, but it also indicates that the mighty russian military might be not-quite-as-awesome as advertised.