boy says he was mad at his dog so he killed it

[xchrom]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BOY_HANGS_DOG?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-10-29-09-13-37

SALINAS, Calif. (AP) -- A 12-year-old California boy says he killed his dog because he wanted to see the terrier mix die.

The Salinas Californian reports ( HTTP://BIT.LY/TPA7WQ ) police officers found the 12-pound dog hanging by its collar on a bedroom door handle.

Investigators say the boy told officers he was mad at the dog and he wanted to see it die.

Dispatchers got a 911 emergency call Friday afternoon from a female caller saying the boy was hurting the dog. People in the boy's apartment refused to open the door when Salinas police arrived, so officers obtained a pass key.

[jorno67]

1. little fucker needs to spend the rest of his life in a mental institution.

[barnabas63]

5. He needs serious help...he's only 12.

Ok, I dislike what he did as much as you - but he's not 16 or 17. Where were his parents? Jesus your statement is really harsh. Someone who is 12 deserves to get help and not be condemned as a future serial killer.

[jorno67]

9. I said mental institution not prison...

Maybe it did sound harsh but killing pets to see them die is exactly what future serial killers do...I ask this question: Would you rather Mr. Dog killer stay in a mental health facility for the rest of his days eating jello and playing bingo or do you want him living next door to you or your kids?

[barnabas63]

11. duh. he's 12. nt

[FrodosPet]

24. Children are harmless

We need to pat him on the head and say "You poor little boy. We are sorry this mean world made you hurt that puppy dog. Now pretty please have some ice cream, play some Call of Duty or GTA on X-Box, and try not to hurt any more kitty kitties and doggies. Thank you".

[joeybee12]

48. He's a 12-year-old psychopath...

Let's put him into some group where he'll get hugs and kisses...this kid is sick,12 or not.

[Kurovski]

55. frodospet probably realises that, it looks like a snark on negligent leniency.

Killing small animals is a sign of a future possible serial killer. Killing your own dog would mean you are well on your way.

[treestar]

14. I think it's more disturbing coming from a 12 year old

For some reason - I guess a kid should be more innocent then - and there was no one else egging him on, as might be the case with older teens.

If you can be that evil at 12, what will you be at 17?

[jorno67]

15. Exactly!

[progressivebydesign]

59. He will never be okay. Never able to be around people.

Sorry.. but I don't care what age you are. Animal killers, sociopaths, cannot live out among people .Next he'll kill someone's toddler... sometimes people are defective and should never see the light of day again. Thankfully they got him before he killed a baby sister to watch her die.

[Dash87]

91. I don't think he can be helped, unfortunately.

He sounds like a classic sociopath. Someone who kills a living thing "just because," and then treats it as no big deal would probably kill again.

[coalition_unwilling]

6. While this does not technically violate DU's ToS, it is very, very

offensive. I would encourage you to self-delete it.

America has not descended (yet) into the barbarism of sentencing 12-year-olds to life sentences. I pray it never does.

[barnabas63]

7. i agree..

that makes me sick.

[joeybee12]

50. Yeah, keep the psychopath out there so he can kill again...

He needs serious help, and locking him up is the only way right now.

[coalition_unwilling]

64. Did you even deign to read the post to which I was responding? Or are you

saying you're perfectly OK with locking up a 12-year-old for life????

Jeesh!

[Chan790]

94. I am saying that I'm not only okay with it...

I have a slight problem with you and barnabas for thinking that a budding violent sociopath does not belong in a mental facility until he is determined not a danger to society, which is probably never.

Today dogs, tomorrow people. No, he belongs locked away from society.

[fishwax]

81. clearly the only two choices are to lock him up forever or to let him go now

I agree he needs serious help, joey, and that that will require an institution at this point. I don't agree that he necessarily should be locked up for the rest of his life, though.

[progressivebydesign]

60. We're entitled to our opinion. But when the hugs and kumbaya don't work..

..perhaps you can ask him to babysit your children for you.

[HiPointDem]

131. Novelist Anne Perry disagrees with you.

Born Juliet Marion Hulme in Blackheath, London....Together with her school friend Pauline Parker, Hulme (age 15 at the time) murdered Parker's mother, Honora Rieper in June 1954....The two teenage girls, who had created a rich fantasy life together populated with famous actors... did not want to be separated. They had hoped to go to England with Hulme's father after the divorce...

On 22 June 1954, the girls took Honora Rieper for a walk in Victoria Park... On an isolated path Hulme dropped an ornamental stone so that Ms. Rieper would lean over to retrieve it. At that point, Parker had planned to hit her mother with half a brick wrapped in a stocking. The girls presumed that would kill her; instead, it took 45 frenzied blows from both girls...

After being released from prison, Hulme returned to England and became a flight attendant...Hulme took the name Anne Perry... Her first novel, The Cater Street Hangman, was published under this name in 1979....As of 2003 she had published 47 novels, and several collections of short stories. Her story "Heroes", which first appeared in the 1999 anthology Murder and Obsession, edited by Otto Penzler, won the 2001 Edgar Award for Best Short Story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Perry

[cthulu2016]

16. Feel better now?

Or does giving into the impulse just make it worse?

[jorno67]

25. fail...

This kid seriously needs some mental help...I did not say prison. I am not advocating punishment!!! I'm advocating a life time of close supervised treatment.

[cthulu2016]

41. Fail.

Everyone can read what you said.

[jorno67]

45. Yep...and at no point did I say this little fucker should be in prison...

Did I? So yeah everyone can read what I said - it would be nice if some would comprehend what I said.

[cthulu2016]

46. Funny, I don't recall claiming you said he should be in prison

As for comprehending what you said, why are you even defending it? It was horrible.

[jorno67]

52. No it wasn't. What he did was horrible.

nice spin, though...
Kid kills family dog because he was mad at dog and wanted to see it die
Jorno says kid should have a life time membership to a residential mental facility
cthulu says Jorno is a bad man for suggesting such a horrible thing

????

If what I said was so freakin bad then alert on it.

[coalition_unwilling]

66. You advocated locking up a 12-year-old for life. You can't spin your

way out of it.

Your opinion is simply reprehensible and I seriously considered alerting the mods but decided it did not violate a DU TofS.

On edit; after looking more closely at DU's TofS, your original comment clearly qualifies as 'crazy talk,' so I have now alerted on it.

[jorno67]

71. Good luck with that...

I'm not spinning a damn thing. I said what I said and I stand by it.

JR Serial Killer needs a life time of mental treatment in a residential facility.

[cthulu2016]

75. If you stood by it you wouldn't keep rephrasing it, pretending it means something else.

[jorno67]

78. ha! I was trying to phrase it in a way you'd understand it, as you clearly did not understand it in

its original form. I was trying to help you. but if it make s you feel better:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1658532

[coalition_unwilling]

101. Sometimes I wonder about DU. A jury voted 3-3 to leave your post standing and

so it stays. But half the people who reviewed it found it out of line, something you might wish to consider before posting again.

As for myself, I have no desire to read anything further you have to contribute on any subject whatsoever so am putting you on Ignore (which I probably should have done first thing).

[jorno67]

102. Good for you!

Oh by the way...read this entire thread, the other half agree with me. Are you going to ignore them too? Or is that just for me?

[glacierbay]

107. So do you feel good about yourself now?

I agree, this little future serial killer needs intense therapy, removed from the home if there's mental or physical abuse, which is usually the case, and if therapy doesn't take hold, then incarceration in a mental facility to remove a danger from society.

If he's not stopped now, then there's a very good chance that he will graduate from animals to humans.

[hifiguy]

103. There's nothing to "spin" out of.

To the extent medical science knows much about sociopaths, they appear to be born, not made. Some just manifest the characteristics earlier than others in a manner similar to schizophrenia.

[coalition_unwilling]

108. Just to be clear: you are thereby advocating locking up a 12-year-old for

life (in keeping with the post that first gave rise to the myriad objections from numerous DUers).

So long habeas corpus, it was nice knowing ya. Hello, 12th Century.

[hifiguy]

109. Hardly. I made a simple statement about the nature of

sociopathy.

This kid should be carefully examined and treated, but he should never again be given the benefit of the doubt about his potential dangerousness to others. He should be under some sort of close mental-health supervision for a very long time. That need not be by way of being locked up.

[coalition_unwilling]

110. So do you hereby repudiate Jorno67's suggestion that "the little fucker . . .

be locked up for life"?

It's OK if you don't, as a jury of DUers decided 3-3 to let that odious and reprehensible sentiment stand.

[hifiguy]

111. I never made any statement agreeing or disagreeing with him/her

in the first place. I have nothing to repudiate, but I offer a qualified disagreement with that statement, nothing more or less.

[coalition_unwilling]

113. Whew! My comment about trying to 'spin' was directed at Jorno67's attempts to

weasel out of the full import of his words.

You don't get to write that you hope the "little fucker . . . is locked up for life" and then try to say you didn't mean it (although the jury deadlocked 3-3 on whether the comment should be suppressed).

[jorno67]

117. again...you left out "in a mental institution" part...

and don't be so proud that a jury went 3-3 on it. I got tired of waiting for you to follow up on your threat so I alerted on it myself...But you have me on ignore and can now take shots at me without me being able to respond. Priceless.

[hifiguy]

118. My statement was made at post 109.

I am not responsible for what other posters write.

[jorno67]

115. you left out the "mental institution" part...

that was convenient for your argument.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Gad...

And will leave it at that.

[TwilightGardener]

2. I guess it's good they know this about him now, before

he turns into an adult serial killer. Poor little dog, what an awful way to go.

[jenw2]

3. At least he didn't strap it to the top of a car

[glacierbay]

18. At least that dog lived

this one didn't and it had to be a slow excruciating death. I can't even imagine the terror that poor dog experienced before dying while that sick little fucker watched.

Glad they got to this kid now, before he becomes a serial killer in training.

[underseasurveyor]

35. Future michael vick. Speaking of sick little fuckers.

That was one of the ways he dispatched a dog he no longer wanted by hanging them

[glacierbay]

40. When I heard about what Vick did

it just sickened me, I love animals, me and my wife will even rescue baby birds and raise and release them back to the wild and I can't even wrap my head around the idea of torturing any animal.

[dixiegrrrrl]

44. "glad they got to this kid"

Hopefully the court will order psychological tests and there should be a life history taken, esp. of bed wetting and fire setting.

I am very pleased to see that so many people here know that what he did is a serious symptom of distrubance.

But now that we know the pre-cursor signs of sociapathic behavior, are therye any tools to effectively and permanently change a predictable pattern in this kid's life?

[glacierbay]

47. I think intense psychological therapy,

investigate the family and see if there's any mental and physical abuse, which there usually is, and if so, remove the child from that environment and hopefully place him in a home with loving adults who are willing to help this child.

[JonLP24]

126. Recent research

since the Macdonald triad has shown that bed-wetting is not a sign of sociopathic behavior. The most common cause is a developmental delay which is completely unrelated to personality disorders. Unlike fire setting or animal cruelty, it is completely involuntary. The myth that there is at all any link w/ bed-wetting has been widely discredited.

[dixiegrrrrl]

128. ty for that info.

[glacierbay]

26. Your kidding right?

Your comparing what RMoney did to what this kid did? Are you saying that strapping a dog to the roof of a car is worse than hanging a dog and watching it die?
I sure as hell hope not.

[jenw2]

32. If the dog lived, why did people make such a big issue about it?

I'm confused.

[glacierbay]

37. Because it was about Romney and his lack of judgement.

This kid killing the dog in no way is comparable to what RMoney did.
RMoney's dog lived, this kid purposely hung the dog and watched it die, how is that even remotely comparable?

[jenw2]

39. I don't remember reading anything claiming that the dog survived

Do you have a citation?

[glacierbay]

43. 1 minute with google would have enlightened you

http://www.washingtonpost.com/mitt-romneys-dog-on-the-car-roof-story-still-proves-to-be-his-critics-best-friend/2012/03/14/gIQAp2LxCS_story.html

Dog got sick but didn't die. This in no way excuses what Rmoney did and I'm certainly not defending it, but in no way is this comparable.
Off topic, but the dog incident with Rmoney is just another reason in a long line of reasons why he's not even close to being qualified to be Pres..

[joeybee12]

53. Actually, the rumor is the dog got down from the car, and ran away in Canada

Mittens and his scum family lied that it lived on his sister's farm afterwards...but of course there are no photos to prove it.

[glacierbay]

54. If I were Mittens dog

I would run to the nearest country that had a no extridition treaty with US.

[TwilightGardener]

42. Because it's a cruel way to treat a dog.

Wow, I've never heard REPUBLICANS defend Mitten's dog abuse. You are in a class by yourself.

[underseasurveyor]

57. I have to wonder then....

If this dog only suffered abuse and torture but not to the death, would it not be a big issue?
I mean come on, really?

[REP]

4. The children are our future

[marions ghost]

8. Budding Vulture Capitalist

sorry...

[quinnox]

10. these things happen

It doesn't mean he will become a killer though.

[TwilightGardener]

12. These things don't happen unless a child is pretty severely disturbed.

Children sometimes do cruel things, but it takes a special mindset to hang a dog from a doorknob and watch it struggle and die--probably took a while. And this wasn't a frog or a mouse, this was the FAMILY PET. This kid needs to be watched for a long, long time.

[alphafemale]

69. I've heard it does take a long time for a dog to die from hanging.

They have stronger muscles in their neck that will prevent their passing out nearly right away like a person would.

[TrogL]

19. He already is a killer

For reasons I'd really rather not go into, I've had to research serial killers fairly extensively. Many start with starting fires and killing pets, then move on to rape and/or kill people.

The common theme is a complete lack of remorse.

[hifiguy]

21. It's a pretty good leading indicator, though.

Most serial killers started with small animals and worked their way up to people. Dahmer and Ed Kemper come immediately to mind though I know there have been others.

[progressivebydesign]

61. are you being sarcastic????

A 12 year old that wanted to watch his family pet DIE because he was mad at it, WILL end up killing other things.. and people. that's how they start.

I can guess that the kid has issues BUT I have a huge problem with stupid parents who have extremely violent "entertainment" as well as their own violent personalities, around kids when their brains are supposed to be developing empahthy. There is a point in a child's brain development, I think around 7 or 8, when you NEED to surround them with "empathy building" stories and such. If they're playing violent games, watching violent movies, and being around violent people, they will become angry little psychopaths, like that.

How many teens have we seen lately that have killed neighbor kids because they "wanted to see someone die."

[AverageJoe90]

99. I mostly agree, BUT........

Contrary to propaganda pushed by certain types of people(y'know, Michael Savage, Glenn Beck, et al.?), violent video games, movies, etc. do NOT cause or even influence real life behavior in most players. Gotta be careful not to fall into traps like that.

[JonLP24]

138. If watching violent movies or playing violent video games

caused sociopathic behavior I'd be a sociopath. There would be far more sociopaths than the 2%-4% that are.

The causes are not well known but there are some theories. The strongest evidence appears abnormal brain function such as lower levels of serotonin. Less activity in the amygdala which makes them fearless as as a larger & prefrontal cortex which is the "conscience". Thinner corpus callosums which cause the no remorse, no feelings, etc. Brain damage in the amygdala and prefontal cortex area can cause sociopathy but not everyone. Other times, it causes behavioral problems but not necessarily sociopathy.

Also genetics & environment have been theorized to play a role but it is clear as far as brain functions go. Sociopath's brains are wired differently. Playing a video game isn't going to reduce feelings of empathy, guilt, fear, etc.

[Odin2005]

83. Shrub blew up frogs with firecrackers as a kid.

Look how he turned out, killer of hundreds of thousands of people.

[treestar]

13. Wow horrible

This could be a future Ted Bundy.

[movonne]

17. serial killer in the making...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

20. This is exactly how serial killers start

[OriginalGeek]

22. 12 year old dog killers are not created in a vacuum

not only does the kid need mental health help, I suspect an investigation into his family life is in order.

[Glimmer of Hope]

27. Yep. Sounds like a cry for help.

[kentauros]

33. I'd say there's suspicion in the family's involvement

just from this part of the story alone:

Dispatchers got a 911 emergency call Friday afternoon from a female caller saying the boy was hurting the dog. People in the boy's apartment refused to open the door when Salinas police arrived, so officers obtained a pass key.

Why would they refuse to let the police in? What else was going on in there?

[glacierbay]

34. I was wondering about that myself. nt.

[KurtNYC]

106. my guess: he lives with alcoholic or rage-aholic parent(s)

[gollygee]

23. This is so not normal

and a sign that something is seriously wrong. This kid needs some major help.

[quinnox]

28. you never burnt ants through a magnifying glass as a kid?

kids do stuff like this. Ok, a dog is a bigger thing, but kids in general can be pretty brutal.

[gollygee]

29. Kids can be brutal to things they can remove themselves emotionally from

like ants, but most kids can't remove themselves emotionally like that from a dog, let alone their own pet, to kill it and so brutally.

[glacierbay]

31. You wouldn't be saying this shit

if you'd seen some of the shit I've seen done to animals by kids in my 30 year career. This is not normal, this is the sign of a disturbed kid and if not nipped in the bud, this kid may very well keep on killing animals until he gets bored and starts on humans.
This is not the same as burning ants with a magnifying glass.
I find it disturbing that you seem to be excusing this behavior and equating it with burning ants.

[quinnox]

38. let's just say I have personal experience

as a kid, I did a couple things to animals, (not hanging a dog but something bad) and I didn't turn into a killer or was disturbed. I learned from my experience, and realized it was wrong to do it with some help in terms of a lesson from adults. This kid could learn from this, and not do it anymore.

I'm just saying I think people jump to conclusions based on tv movies and media myths.

[glacierbay]

51. I'm jumping to this conclusion from my 30 years as a police officer

this is not normal, this is how serial killers start out, I have seen horrible acts done to animals by kids with no remorse at all, and to hang and watch an animal die slowly because he wanted to watch it die, that's a sure sign that this child has some mental issues and needs therapy fast before it goes any further. It's been my experience that after the first kill, it becomes easier and less personal.

[HiPointDem]

132. +1.

[underseasurveyor]

30. You know darn well that his parents saw behaviour(s) previous to this

that were warnings leading up to this boy killing his dog.

That poor dog probably lived a life of hell with this kid, and the poor kid, who knows what kind of hell he was going through.

[Whovian]

36. Some psychopaths are just born that way.

Get this kid into an institution before he starts killing people.

[vanlassie]

87. I strongly disagree that they are born that way.

I am certain this lack of empathy (which is the underlying dysfunction) is the direct result of a lack of responsive and attached care during the first three years of life.

[DevonRex]

100. Yes, some are born that way. Nt

[arthritisR_US]

49. Sociopath, meet your next serial killer :(n/t

Last edited Tue Oct 30, 2012, 01:49 AM - Edit history (1)

[Tom Ripley]

56. Which is his other hobby, bed-wetting or fire-setting?

He is a dangerous child who will become a dangerous adult.

[Initech]

58. Future Dexter in the making?

[progressivebydesign]

62. well considering many Americans think a show about a quirky serial killer is FUN...

then how can anyone be surprised by this stuff???

[Initech]

63. Good point. At least Dexter has a moral code...

[Egalitarian Thug]

65. Is that what it's about? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. n/t

[Incitatus]

73. Future Dahmer maybe.

I've only seen a few episodes, but I don't think Dexter would kill an innocent dog.

[Initech]

79. That is how he got started actually.

[KurtNYC]

67. This child needs some serious love.

Whatever environment he is in that made him think this was appropriate and acceptable is very unhealthy.

Easy to get mad at this child but his own life is likely to be very much like that dog's -- violent, unjust and lacking in real love.

[alphafemale]

70. He can spend the night at your house.

Don't lock up the knives and baseball bats because you might hurt his precious widdle feelwings.

[KurtNYC]

72. Did that feel good?

Passing judgement on me and a child when you know neither of us?

I hope you find peace soon.

[alphafemale]

77. He hung up his pet dog by its neck because he wanted to watch it die. No way I'd embrace that.

He's 12 not 6. He knew damn well what he was doing.

He's not safe.

Never will be.

[Odin2005]

85. Love doesn't fix psychopathy.

This child is neurologically incapable of experiencing love. He is broken.

[KurtNYC]

88. My guess is that he experienced, and in the process learned, this type of behavior

Love includes boundaries and rules.

[mythology]

89. I seem to remember people mocking Senator Frist for making medical diagnosis from afar

You have absolutely no way of knowing if this kid can be fixed or not. None of us do. But as a society I believe we have an obligation to find out. He's 12. Yes this is awful, but he's 12.

It's simplistic and easy to assume that everybody who commits monstrous acts is a monster from birth because it distances us from them. But in that case, was there something in the water in Germany that caused so many to commit atrocities during the Holocaust? Or were they people who were capable of love who chose to act without it?

I don't know a single person who doesn't make choices every day that don't lead to suffering and death. But we hide from the consequences. We eat meat, or dairy or eggs from animals kept and killed for that purpose. We don't donate everything past subsistence level to alleviate the thousands of kids who will die today from lack of nutrition or medicine. But we don't see that so we can lie to ourselves and say that it's not our inaction that causes those deaths. But by making the choices we make, we necessarily don't make every other possible choice. IE we buy that computer rather than using the free one at the public library because it's more convenient, we buy that candy bar because hey it's only a dollar, we eat that steak because it didn't have a face by the time we saw it.

None of us are without sin. But go ahead and judge this kid as incapable of change. After all, you've never done anything that resulted in any unnecessary suffering right?

For all those who point out that serial killers often start with killing small animals, any idea what percent of animal killers go on to become serial killers? I couldn't find anything with a quick google search. Without knowing that, saying that many serial killers killed small animals is useless. For example, all serial killers were once children but that doesn't mean that all children become serial killers. You can't look at the subsection of people and then use that to predict the future without knowing how it differs from the population as a whole. It's bad pseudo-science at best.

Additionally the most recent evidence doesn't support the bed wetting as a predictor.

[darkangel218]

112. You are absolutely corect. nt

[slackmaster]

68. That boy is in serious need of mental health care

I hope he gets it before it's too late. Of course it may already be too late, but it's still worth trying to save him.

[Bake]

74. Children who harm animals grow up to be serial killers.

Dahmer, for example.

Kid needs serious help.

Bake

[markpkessinger]

80. Why, I never knew there were so many experts in adolescent psych. dev. on DU!

I mean, all this certitude concerning this boy's psychopathy, all this apparent expertise in what is or is not effective in treating this 12-year-old "psychopath," all this prognostication about what his future will, or will not, hold -- surely that must mean you are all psychiatrists with a specialty in adolescent psychiatric medicine, or Psy.D's in adolescent psychology, with hundreds of years between you all in clinical or laboratory research settings, right?

Look, we've all seen the documentaries, or read the articles, on serial killers that identify cruelty to animals in youth and adolescence as a commonly found trait. But identifying a commonly found trait is not the same thing as establishing with any certainty that such trait is always an indicator of psychopathy. No doubt this boy's behavior and affect concerning his behavior are red flags for some serious psychological issues, and warrant immediate intervention by qualified mental health professionals. I am not qualified in the field either, but I do know this much: psychopathy, or anti-social personality disorders (the DSM-IV term), are evaluated and diagnosed across a complex of interpersonal skills, emotional affect and behaviors, and a single incident -- how ever troubling -- does not constitute a basis on which such a diagnosis is made. The suggestion that the only thing to be done with this kid is to throw him into a locked mental ward for the next 30 years, based on a report of a single incident, and upon no direct knowledge of the boy or his life circumstances, partakes of the very sort of armchair "expertise" Tea Partiers profess with respect to macroeconomics. And, iw ould submit, it also reflects one of the features of American popular culture that leads us, as a society, to our general cluelessness when it comes to issues of mental health!

[quinnox]

86. thank you

I'm in total agreement

[coalition_unwilling]

116. Thank you. I wish I could rec this response 1,000,000 times and then 1 more for

good measure.

Forget 30 years, some here want him locked up for life.

Ab-so-friggin-lutely astounding.

[glacierbay]

119. I want this kid locked up for life

if therapy doesn't work, I would have no problem with that, but I do think that we have to try to straighten this kid out before he becomes a serial killer.

[coalition_unwilling]

120. The last time I checked, the sentence for animal cruelty was not

locking up someone for life.

Look, when i was 11 or 12 years old, I received a BB-gun for my birthday. I promptly took it out and shot a frog in our crick to death with it. Why would I do such a stupid, senseless thing to a creature who threatened no harm to me? Beats the shit out of me now - hate to say it was just idle pre-adolescent curiosity but I'm pretty sure that's all it was. I shot that frog to death simply because I could.

I felt the most intense regret after having done so and never repeated the incident. But I now think killing animals, even pets, may be part of the maturation process as children develop into adult human beings, without being necessarily indicative of any pre-disposition to serial killing. I would be taking a very close look at 'anger' issues with this 12-year-old and looking very closely at his family environment. But locking him up for life?

[jorno67]

121. WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!

But I now think killing animals, even pets, may be part of the maturation process as children develop into adult human beings, without being necessarily indicative of any pre-disposition to serial killing.

Yikes!

[glacierbay]

123. Scary, ain't it?

I've been a cop for 30 years and if he'd seen what I've seen done to animals by these little sociopaths, he would change his tune.

[jorno67]

125. yeah to think that it is normal for kids to kill their pets...

that is some hardcore justification to sooth ones guilty conscience. But your right there is definitely a difference between a frog and family pet.

[glacierbay]

122. A frog is not like a pet

this kid took the family dog, a pet, and hung it on a doorknob by it's collar and watched it die just to see it die.
In no way does that equate with your plinking a frog.
In my 30 years as a cop, I've seen the horrible things that kids do to pets without any remorse, those are the signs of something mentally wrong and if not treated, may very well escalate to the torture and killing of more animals and humans.
I agree that as a society, we have to try and straighten this kid out before it's too late, but if therapy doesn't work, then yes, lock him up.
BTW, it's been my experience that the first kill is the hardest, it gets easier after that and this kid has made his, AFAIK, his first kill.
Killing the family pet is not a rite of passage, that's just ridiculous.

[hifiguy]

136. If you truly mean this, you have issues of your own.

But I now think killing animals, even pets, may be part of the maturation process as children develop into adult human beings

Words fail me.

I threw a few rocks at frogs when I was a pre-teen but never did I ever think that torturing an animal was an OK thing to do, most particularly any animal that someone loved.

[coalition_unwilling]

137. I grant you that killing a pet strikes me as over-the-top (thereby explaining why

I think the kid needs to be looked at closely for his anger issues and the family circumstances). I do not think torturing an animal is an OK thing to do.

I don't think I considered my action toward the frog as 'torture.' (I didn't think about it at all that I can recall.) As I think back on it now, it almost certainly was torture to that frog, but I don't think I had the intellectual or emotional maturity to understand it in those terms at that age. Had some adult confronted me about it at the time, I might have understood the wrong I was doing.

I feel like I'm flailing about. We all have issues but that doesn't mean we should all be locked up for life. I suppose I was merely trying to suggest that not every child who kills an animal or indulges in animal cruelty goes on to become a serial killer.

[HiPointDem]

139. +1. i also never knew that 'lock the kid up & throw away the key' was the new democratic normal.

[Odin2005]

82. Kids like this punk usually become adult sociopaths/psychopaths.

[graywarrior]

84. That hurts for so many reasons.

[BlueMan Votes]

90. somebody should get equally mad at the kid...

just sayin'.

[lonestarnot]

92. Have you considered the possibility that someone already has and that is why he is like he is?

Poor little doggie. Poor kid.

[BlueMan Votes]

97. if somebody already had- he wouldn't have been around to kill the dog.

and yes- i know about those kinds of situations- my father was EXTREMELY physically and verbally abusive to me for most of my childhood and beyond.

[lonestarnot]

104. So you would advocate to kill the 12 year old. Yes we see why you are like you are by your own

admission. You could also use some help.

[BlueMan Votes]

124. oh well...

[JI7]

93. 12 is old enough, i thought he would turn out to be like 8 . but the Kid is on his way to doing a

lot worse to not just dogs and other animals but to other humans.

we had a dog that did a lot of bad things but i could never feel angry enough to hurt him. in fact i never got angry at him. he was a dog. i would have gotten angry at people for doing the same thing but not at him.

so i think kids who hurt animals end up being cruel to people.

Romney is a good example of this.

[AverageJoe90]

95. Anybody else wonder if......

This kid was likely abused when younger? Normal kids who grow up in loving, stable families rarely(extreme understatement, btw!) ever do this kind of thing.

R.I.P., poor dog.

[hifiguy]

105. Dahmer, Bundy and Chimpy Bush

grew up in stable families, as did Rmoney. All of them are sociopaths. It is something to do with brain wiring, as far as we are able to say anything about the subject.

[AverageJoe90]

134. Yeah, but both Bundy and Dahmer were still abused as children.

Don't know about Chimpy Bush, though.....but it's a possibility.

[B Calm]

96. George W Bush liked to kill animals

at this age too and look how he turned out!

[Sunlei]

98. why didn't the 911 caller and other "people" take the hanging dog off the doorknob?!!!

report said the "people" in the apartment refused to open the door. They should all be charged with felony animal cruelty and perhaps child abuse. Sort this out in court.

[Liberal_in_LA]

114. horrible story

[JonLP24]

127. While

it could be a sign of future violent criminal behavior, it isn't a sure thing as others seem to think it is to the point that they lock him up for life. It is a huge red flag for teens over that age but he is in the age group where it could be a sign the child is being physically or sexually abused.

At any rate, he needs professional help no matter the underlying causes.

[glacierbay]

130. In my opinion

it's not a could be sign, it's a sure sign of future criminal behavior if not nipped in the bud, but that's just the cop in me. I do agree that he needs professional help immediately no matter the underlying causes.

[JonLP24]

133. I'm just saying

if you research the causes there are other ones besides "future serial killer&quot in those cases it was far more than 1 animal--which could be more than one for this child as we don't know if he killed more or not). While most serial killers have a history of animal cruelty, most children who commit animal cruelty don't become serial killers and the most common of those cases involve children who are at the receiving end of violence at home. The child could have a developmental disability as well. That is all my point was.

Of course, if it is a DV situation, the cycle of violence needs to be broken or the child could grow up to be an abuser as most abusers were abused themselves as children, not to mention the host of psychological problems that most often develop.

[glacierbay]

135. I'm not disagreeing with you for the most part

I believe that this kid is a victim of mental and/or physical abuse, which might include sexual abuse, and I don't know if there are other instances of animal abuse in his past.
I'm particularly disturbed by the report that the family inside wouldn't let the police in to investigate the report of an animal being hurt, that tells me that the family knew about his history and were trying to shield the kid from being found out, and why the hell didn't someone in the house save that poor dog? They HAD to know about it.
It sounds like the whole family needs investigated, which is going to happen now.
Of course this is all speculation on my part, but I do have a lot of experience from the LE side of this issue and I'm just going on experience at this point.
Regardless, I'm glad they got this kid before it could possiby escalate and he should get intense therapy.

[KamaAina]

129. Look for him on the GOP ticket in 2036

[Hometown Slice]

140. Serial killer

...in the oven. This one is dangerous.

[RiffRandell]

141. The next Jeffrey Dahmer. n/t