Amazing...Sandy claims HMS Bounty. 2 missing, 14 rescued.

[Atman]

This is (was) an iconic symbol of Mystic, CT. They took her out to see because that's what she was designed for, and it's safer than having it tied to a dock or mooring. A testament to the ferocity of this storm.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/29/14775512-14-rescued-2-missing-from-hms-bounty-off-nc-coast

[geckosfeet]

1. Yes - but sailing towards the storm doesn't seem so smart. They sailed right down the coast.

[Atman]

2. Yeah, that was my first impression.

Why wouldn't you sail straight out to see instead down off the coast of NC...they went right into the center of the storm.

[Kindly Refrain]

5. Graveyard of the Atlantic

[Retrograde]

3. I have a friend who often sails on that ship

Haven't heard anything from him in a while - keeping my fingers crossed.

ETA: he just posted on FB - he was on the ship when it went down, but was rescued.

[uppityperson]

12. Happy for you and him. So sorry for the ones that didn't make it.

[HooptieWagon]

4. 500 years of history tells us sailing ships and hurricanes a bad mix.

No, the ship was not safer at sea. Should have sought shelter in NY Harbor or Chesapeake Bay before getting caught off Cape Hatteras. 2 dead crew would still be alive.

[Atman]

6. Actually, they ARE generally safer at sea.

If a ship breaks lose from its mooring while in a harbor it gets blown ashore a crashes into stuff and the ship and God-knows-what on shore are destroyed. Big ships are designed to take high seas, so they're almost always safer on open water with a skilled crew.

[HooptieWagon]

7. No they are not!

A large motor vessel has the speed to avoid a storm, and has the power to hold the bow into the seas.
A sailing vessel is another different animal. Too slow to avoid a storm. Insufficient power to hold the bow into the waves. Insufficient stability to carry enough sail to maintain manuverability.
Marques - sunk in 1984, 19 of 28 crew dead
Pride of Baltimore - sunk in 1986, 4 of 12 crew dead.
Fantome - capsized and sunk attempting to outrun hurricane Mitch in 1998. All 31 crew dead.
Concordia - capsized and sunk in 2010. Crew able to get into liferafts in time, all 64 survived.
There are several other examples.

If you have never been at sea in a storm, you cannot even begin to imagine the conditions.
Yes, the ship may be damaged in port. At least the crew is safely ashore. Ship can be replaced, human lives cannot.

If a sailing ship is caught at sea in a storm, it is better to get away from the coast. If in port, or if a safe port can be made before the storm, then it is better to be in harbor.
I am sure the Bounty had modern communications - single side band radio, weatherfax, probably a computer satellite uplink. They knew the storm was coming, and had time to reach shelter in NY Harbor or the Chesapeake Bay. They were foolish not to. Now 2 people ca n be presumed dead, and rest of crew and Coast Guardsmens lives were needlessly put at
risk. Utterly stupid.

[Atman]

8. It had twin diesels, 54" four-blade props, and was under power, not under sail.

This isn't the original Bounty, it is a replica built for the movies. For some reason the captain decided to attempt to navigate AROUND this giant storm. The were in touch with NOAA the entire time. But it was obviously a very stupid decision.

And yes, I have been to sea in some very bad storms and very high seas, but not this big; apparently 18'. That's big.

[HooptieWagon]

9. I have been aboard.

It was docked in St Pete for many years, recently had spent summers docked in Boothbay, Maine, next door to my parents condo.

There is a tremendous amount of windage with the masts, yardarms, rigging, and furled sails. Plus, the bow is blunt. There is no way the ship could head into the seas with enough speed to maintain steerageway. Rudder doesn't work if ship not moving.
I have been at sea in similar conditions several times, aboard modern ocean racing sailboats. They are far more stable and controllable than an old-fashioned sailing ship, yet still a handful to sail, and risky. To be avoided, if at all possible.
The Bounty was not a ship to take on a hurricane in. Recent event proves my point.

[Atman]

10. Well obviously it shouldn't have taken on this storm.

Once, not sure captain was thinking.

[JPZenger]

11. Maybe it was safer for ship to be at sea than at a dock, but definitely not for the crew

If it was true that the ship went to sea to avoid damage from hitting the dock, that shows a complete lack of respect for the safety of the crew.

As noted above, large US Navy ships leave port and steer clear of storms. But that is a completely different story.

[HooptieWagon]

13. Yes. Navy ship can go 35 knots and avoid storm.

The Bounty maybe does 8. Plus, a Navy ship doesn't have the weight and windage of the masts and rigging affecting stability and manuverability.

[bluestate10]

15. Is it possible to steer clear of a storm as large as Sandy? nt

[HooptieWagon]

23. Very difficult in a slow boat.

[me b zola]

16. That ship should have easily handled 18' seas

I think that there was a design flaw. Mr mbz thinks maybe they didn't replicate the ballast system.

[Atman]

26. These ships sailed across the Atlantic.

They sailed it without power. You don't think they ever encountered heavy seas?

I think this storm was just too big, and yet it kept being called a Cat 1. The captain was monitoring NOAA and keeping in touch...he thought he could go around it. As I've said a few time...bad decision. But I can't belief a ship designed to cross the Atlantic couldn't hold up to heavy seas.

[HooptieWagon]

28. They were designed to sail downwind in 20 knot tradewinds

not take on megastorms in the North Atlantic.
A whole lot of those ships were sunk or wrecked... a well-respected captain might lose several ships during his career (if he lived that long).

[marions ghost]

18. Yeah they were caught in it

...shouldn't have been out there.

[HooptieWagon]

19. They had several days warning.

Poor decision not to seek a sheltered port. I wonder if owner ordered them to continue?

[marions ghost]

21. I've been on some sailboats

and have seen how sometimes when the captain is experienced and very confident (& has been through storms), errors of judgment can be made. You can get into trouble fast in the ocean. Not trying to excuse, just saying I sympathize with the situation and don't want to judge the captain too harshly at least until something more is known. I kind of doubt the owner would have told the captain what to do--probably had confidence in him. Now watch me be totally wrong about that.

Tragedy.

[HooptieWagon]

22. They were supposed to be in St Pete Nov 10th.

I don't know if that was a hard date, or just a projection. The captain SHOULD be the one who makes the call whether to proceed or take shelter. He is the person on the scene in charge, knows the condition of boat, crew, and weather. However, it wouldn't be the first time that a poor decision to continue a risky course was made to comply with an owners wishes or schedule ... if that proves to be the case. We don't know yet. I'm sure the CG (and insurers) will conduct an investigation, they will interview everyone and analyze all kinds of documents and records before issuing their findings.

[marions ghost]

24. The captain makes all decisions and

is legally responsible for everything I believe.

Yeah he could have been trying to accommodate the owner. I doubt anything can be proven there. Unless there's some evidence of a pre-existing pattern, I think the poor captain will be eulogized and all that speculation put to rest. Of course there are a lot of witnesses as to what happened, and the story will come out. Most likely the crew did not question the captain's decision.

I hope they can salvage the boat. Because of the coincidence with the impending elections my voodoo radar says we NEED to resurrect this ship...er country...I mean...this symbolic ship, a bearer of shared human history, functional beauty and WIND POWER. The more modern wind powered ships are kinda fugly--still inspirational to me--but these romantic ships draw the public. The symbolism of the Bounty Story is somewhat relevant too as we confront those who want to control everything.

Bounty--a word with more meanings than paper towels.

[Egalitarian Thug]

14. That is so sad. 2 Lives and a piece of American film history lost. n/t

[flamingdem]

17. This is too sad, the comments on one article says the captain was

very well respected and experienced.

[HooptieWagon]

20. Experienced maybe. Smart not.

[DiverDave]

25. It would have been MUCH safer

in the Chesapeake, all those deepwater creeks.
Someone wasnt thinking safety.
At the MOST it would have run aground.

[Atman]

27. Read a story today about a family on cruise ship on Saturday night...

Supposed to do one of the island-hopping things. Encountered the storm and opted to go straight out to sea instead. Got too rough, so received permission to seek safe harbor in Chesapeake Bay...which they did. And survived quite nicely. So yeah, the Bounty should have done something different. But they didn't. The experienced captain thought he knew his ship. It is very sad for the people who lost their lives, and for the history lost in the sinking.