I'm a veteran, and a pacifist. And I'm a little disgusted by the disrespect voiced toward the Tomb

[Aristus]

of the Unknowns, and those who guard it.

Believe me, no one opposes immoral military action more than I do. But let's not bleed it into those who fell during whichever American war is currently the least popular.

I marched in opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I despise George W. Bush for sullying America's name with a fascistic, greedy, illegal and opportunistic war for oil.

But if you can't say something respectful towards the Unknowns at Arlington, or towards those who have guarded them 24/7/365 since 1937, please don't say anything at all.

Yes, you have a right to. But that doesn't mean you should. We're the good guys. We need to behave (and talk) like the good guys.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

1. +1

Nothing needed to add.

[Norbert]

116. +2

Amen

[840high]

152. +3

[FourScore]

174. Even in a hurricane...

[sulphurdunn]

176. Actually,

it's pretty good duty. Getting wet just goes with the job.

[NICO9000]

180. That's a very powerful picture

Thanks for posting it.

[SemperEadem]

182. A powerful image

how anyone could say anything disrespectful about it is amazing to me.

[pinboy3niner]

183. Reminds me of the monsoons in Vietnam

If we used raingear or ponchos, we were hot as hell. At night, on ambush, we were still wet when the temperature dropped, and we shivered our asses off all night in the A Shau.

For many of us, seeing soldiers pulling duty in the rain is no big deal, because we've been there before. But those troops of the Old Guard are the best, totally dedicated to the duty they volunteered for. (And one of my Army Infantry OCS classmates was chosen for assignment as an officer in th Old Guard.)

For those who may be concerned, it's important to note that the Guards do have a contingincy plan. When conditions jeopardize thier safety, they will be brought indoors, where they have a view of the Tomb and will continue to guard it from a safe location.

[tarheelsunc]

184. Good pic, but that pic is from September, not from Sandy and not from any hurricane

[msanthrope]

2. It's revolting, and frankly, it makes DU suck. nt

[BainsBane]

53. I agree

Now that I've seen those threads I'm very angry.

[msanthrope]

73. Take heart in how many are showing up to call out the disrespect. nt

[cbrer]

86. +1,000,000

Although never above criticism, America is the greatest social experiment in human history. The ENORMOUS sacrifices that have brought us this cultural wealth should never be ignored, or insulted.

The Tomb of the Unknown simply acknowledges this sacrifice and this greatness.

[roguevalley]

132. given that this monument is the only grave that some families ever had for their

loved ones, this is disturbing to hear

[hogwyld]

3. I agree.

But remember, those that have served understand certain things that those who have not ever will.

[BainsBane]

47. Yes, but all Americans should respect those who have served

They fight our wars, but they do not make them. I haven't seen threads disrespecting the tomb or veterans, but it pains me to know they have appeared on this site. I thought the left had learned its lessons from the 1960s.

[Journeyman]

4. People on this board are now critical of the dead? . . .

The unknown dead at that.

Doesn't surprise me. This board slips further into irrelevancy with each passing season.

[Aristus]

11. Yeah, there are at least 2 threads in GD that are openly contemptuous of the Tomb,

its reason for being, and those who guard it.

All prompted by a photo of the 3rd ID Tomb guards undergoing the changing of the guards ceremony in the driving rain. A pic, evidently, taken a while ago, and not related to the current weather conditions on the Eastern seaboard. But still indicative of the dedication and honor with which the guards perform their task.

[speedoo]

24. Links, please?

So I can post in those threads, as a vet.

[DonViejo]

28. ^^^ +1,000 nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

38. Here's one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021659101#post9

And another couple in same thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021659101#post40

[calimary]

55. Well, it's the symbolism. It's about THE SACRIFICE. I'm as anti-war as they come. But this is

a reminder. It speaks to something larger and farther beyond our own little selves.

As a mom, I can FULLY understand the instinct voiced in some of these to want to bring these boys in out of the storm and give them hot cocoa instead of making them stand out there like that. But this is different. There's something larger and transcendent, symbolized here. Whoever is buried in that tomb went through far more hardship, difficulty, cold, pain, and discomfort.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

84. Yes. Generals who've served in actual combat know war is hell & are very reluctant to commit troops.

Sites like the Unknown Soldier tomb and War Memorials everywhere are more than just symbols. They are real embodiments of the dedication to avoiding war because of the destruction and sacrifice.

Those peace activists who have their acts together support these memorials because they remind everyone on all seven sides of the issues that 'wars have real human costs'. Everyone can agree that the human costs of war are real and deep.

[PavePusher]

166. With all due respect...

those are not boys, nor is anyone making them perform this duty.

They are, each and every one, men. All have qualified in difficult and often dangerous duties and training. Some, perhaps many, are combat vets. They are, one and all, volunteers who have gone through additional rigorous training and testing to qualify for their post. They are all thinking, rational people who have weighed the dangers against the honor and privilege of serving and made their choice of their own free will, after much study, counciling and contemplation.

While the sentiment expressed by some is understandable and, in its way, intended as a compliment, it is also a distinct insult in its lack of respect for the individual at the post, showing a disregard for the individual proficiency, capability and dedication of the soldier.

I know that's not what you feel, but it is the feeling you are refering to and that needs to be addressed.

[speedoo]

58. Thanks. Some of those posts are simply disgusting.

I've been here a while and some people making those posts have caused me to lose all respect for them. Maybe permanently.

[glacierbay]

133. I'm a Vietnam Vet also

and some of those posts are just disgusting, felt like I needed a shower after reading them.

[whathehell]

140. +100 n/t

[Posteritatis]

92. I saw one of those threads, kinda wish I hadn't. Ugh. (nt)

[freshwest]

119. I may have gone farther afield than some think necessary, but I hope you didn't find mine offensive:

A hurricane is nothing compared to combat...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021659101#post120

[bluestate10]

15. There is a group on DU that hates anything associated with the military.

IMO, that view betrays extreme lack of perspective. For the last five decades, out leaders took us into bad wars, with the exception of Clinton' intervention in Bosnia and Somalia, to stop starvation, but some wars have to be fought. The unknown soldier was a man that fought to save humanity, he fought a good war.

[George II]

148. Sadly, there are a number of people on DU who are bitter and hateful.........

....and allow their ideological zeal get in the way of reality.

[txdemsftw]

5. Good Post!

[Chan790]

6. Thank you for saying this.

[LP2K12]

7. Wish I could rec this

a million times!

[sinkingfeeling]

8. I missed it, thank goodness. How can anybody not be moved my the Tomb

of the Unknowns?

[dipsydoodle]

9. Respect

is the only word I used in the other post. It was unfortunate the someone got lulled into believing that picture was taken today.

[bluestate10]

10. I share your feelings. Laying there is a man that helped save humanity from a barbarian.

He deserves all the respect that we can possibly give him and others like him.

[MineralMan]

12. It's awfully easy for those who are not and will never be in harm's way

to denigrate those who have been and are in harm's way. Piping down is a good idea, I think. For those who think everyone who bears arms for their country is somehow an evil person, I say that you're very, very wrong.

[cali]

13. I have nothing against those who guard it, but I think it's folly to lionize

them and I won't shut up just because you don't like it.

[Robb]

17. Clearly.

[Journeyman]

22. . . .

[LanternWaste]

32. Consciously conflating admiration and "folly" seems like... well, folly.

Consciously conflating admiration and "folly" seems like... well, folly.

[11 Bravo]

35. You've made that abundantly clear. More's the pity.

And nobody asked you to fucking lionize them. Maybe you could just refrain from shitting on them.

[Aristus]

44. Thanks, 11 Bang.

You rock!

[11 Bravo]

52. Hoo-ahh, brother!

[ncgrits]

90. Well put. I've been watching all of this play out. And finally, the perfect response. Thank you. nt

[MADem]

159. +1,000,000! nt

[likesmountains 52]

42. Sometimes silence truly is golden.

[trumad]

59. No---I think this is one topic that you should shut the fuck up.

[kestrel91316]

62. Hm. You again. You sure you're a liberal?

Because of late you seem to be quite the angry hater type. Not much compassion for a Democrat.

[Texasgal]

70. Right?

Good GAWD it's been constant of late!

[mythology]

100. It's times like this I like to remember the Abraham Lincoln quote

Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

You have the right to say most anything you like, but you do look rather foolish on this one.

[pasto76]

105. you're right, less than 1% of us ever wear a uniform, and it is, in fact, so you can be an ass

enjoy.

[TahitiNut]

127. Ditto, bro.

(US Army, 1968-69, Long Binh, RVN, USARV HQ Co., E5)

[Confusious]

136. It's not lionizing

It's called respect, something you seem to lack.

[whathehell]

139. How very tolerant of you, lol. As to your next point, how about

shutting up because NO one likes it?

Nah..The sight of your own opinions is much too dear to you,

and I'm sure you think of yourself as a brave, "important" voice.

[renate]

14. I think the fact that it's guarded continuously, no matter what

... is absolutely beautiful. It's the way it should be. I hope there's a back-up plan in place in case it becomes literally impossible for the guard to be in their regular spot but it should always be attended. I'm not even in the military and I'd be proud to do it through a hurricane.

[BigDemVoter]

41. I wouldn't if somebody really risked getting hurt. . . .

Plenty of time to guard in better/safer weather.

[pinboy3niner]

66. Their contingency plan calls for them to be brought indoors if their safety is in jeopardy

They still have a view of the Tomb and continue their duty of guarding it from a safe place.

[SaveAmerica]

147. Thanks, my husband and I were wondering about this, he was concerned

about them in very bad weather. He's a Veteran and understands and respects what they are doing, of course, but was concerned if the weather got really extreme.

[appleannie1]

16. AMEN

[southernyankeebelle]

18. Every time I go visit my father and mother's grave at Arlington I alway stop at the

Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Every time I feel emotional inside myself thinking about the young person who is buried there and their families don't even know that.

[Skidmore]

19. You know, I meant no disrespect to the dead or those who guard it.

I did state that I felt that during such an event, those men could also serve the living. I'll own my opinion. I don't see the disrespect in turning to the living at a time of disaster when all hands may be needed and if that is not recognizing the need to be a good guy in a larger event, than I don't know where we've gotten to.

[Aristus]

21. Service to those in danger will not go undone just because a tiny cadre of men perform a service

unrelated to reinforcing levees, making sandwiches and hot coffee, and filling sandbags.

No one is accusing you of saying this, but the Tomb Guards are not tin soldiers, put there for show; they are fully trained, combat-ready infantrymen. Time spent not guarding the Tomb, or preparing for their shifts, is time spent in weapons proficiency, and ceasless training in modern infantry tactics.

No one expects trained members of FEMA to assault a hill or take a machine gun position. They have other duties. Let them perform those that are appropriate, and the same for the Tomb Guards.

[mac56]

33. This.

Thank you, Aristus.

[Skidmore]

34. Thank you for the information.

Lately I've had it up to my eyeballs with the cult of militarism from a family member. My family has had people in the service from the time of the Revolution to the present day (at least those who weren't Quakers). My father, all of his five brothers, and three of my brothers have served. I have nieces and nephews currently in the service. However, I have a particular cousin's whose whole family derives its identity solely from their involvement with the military. Never mind that her husband and two of her sons have disabilities and her third son committed suicide, they are now working on the next generation, male and female. If you suggest that perhaps the world would benefit from a little effort directed towards peace, she goes ballistic and can literally see no other solutions to world problems other than for people to suit up in camo and point a gun. I know they've had a hard time but they keep going back to the well and are pretty much making it hard for people to be supportive of them, largely in part to their insistence that the family all somehow owes them extra special considerations because of their service. It just gets to be a little much after a while.

[Aristus]

50. I share your irritation with such people.

My wife's side of the family are all conservative Republicans - total cheerleaders for killing lots of brown-skinned people who are no threat to us; utterly convinced that any problem of foreign relations can be solved effectively if we just kill enough people. And for all of this rah-rah, war-war-war stuff, not one of them has ever served in the military.

Now I come from a Southern military family, and I'm a third-generation veteran. And my side of the family are all pro-peace liberal Democrats. We understand when military action is appropriate, and when it is not. And when it is, we suit up...

[LanternWaste]

39. What do you think will go undone due to the absence of one company?

What do you think will go undone due to the absence of one company? Who will go unnerved due to the absence of one company?

For example, what precisely could this company have done during Katrina that was prevented solely due this company not being in the area?

[CherokeeDem]

20. I commented on one of those posts....

and I too was appalled at the comments being made...

I find these young men guarding the Tomb to be the best of the best and those resting at Arlington deserve no less than that.

I have witnessed a changing of the Guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns several times and each time, it brings a tear to my eye...not only for the sacrifice of those who rest there but for those serving now.

Too many times I have had to defend being a liberal to people who think all liberals are soldier haters. What angers me is that in a few disgusting cases, they're right.

I not love war, but I do love and respect the men and women who serve.

[nolabear]

23. Oh dear. I commented that those guards should get inside but meant no disrespect.

Hell, I grew up military and I agree that it's an important symbol of respect. But I also have grown sons and wouldn't want their lives to be jeopardized. Sorry if some went further than that. I think my stance is just pragmatic, not disrespectful.

[Aristus]

25. It wasn't you, nolabear.

Expressing concern for the well-being of the Tomb Guards is different than expressing contempt for the Tomb and the Guards.

I knew what you meant.

Love, love, love...

[Kindly Refrain]

63. Please cite an example where somebody

showed "contempt for the Tomb and the Guards." Otherwise this is another USA! USA! USA! thread.

[Aristus]

68. Reply #74 by stopbush, for starters. There are more...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021659101

[Warren Stupidity]

170. That wasn't contempt

Standing around in a driving rainstorm doesn't qualify in my books. It just looks silly. Why not decide that showing respect also involves erecting a weather-proof structure next to the tomb so the living soldiers have a place to get out of the weather? I'm sure the dead won't complain.

But then, we're a country that puts a lot of credence into taking a moment of silence to pray to non-existent gods, so I guess standing around in bad weather is par for the course. Most people like it, but ultimately, it's pretty meaningless.

The poster thinks having a shelter for the guards would not be a bad idea. I agree. How that gets transformed into contempt is an interesting exercise. The fact that it has, that any suggestion that perhaps it is the slightest bit odd to have people standing in a hurricane guarding long dead bodies is a cause for outrage, demonstrates just how far down the road of mindless militarism we have gone.

When it comes to honoring veterans, funding the VA works for me, colossal monuments to the dead not so much. The simple cemetery at Gettysburg brings me to tears, the stupid monuments look out of place.

[TruthAnalyzed]

72. You called them brainwashed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021659101#post38

[Kindly Refrain]

78. Yup, I think there are a lot of brainwashed people in this country.

A lot.

[TruthAnalyzed]

87. So, calling them brainwashed...

is in no way disrespectful?

Although, I do agree with you. A lot of people have been 'brainwashed' by easy, wealthy lives. 'Brainwashed' by freedoms and comforts that 99.99% of all humans could only ever dream of. 'Brainwashed' to think that all violence and all war is and always has been a waste.

[Wait Wut]

51. LOL!!

No...that's not disrespect. That's compassion. Trust me, I look at those boys and wonder what their parents must be thinking.

[Hippo_Tron]

110. They do, don't worry

Once the conditions get unsafe outside, they clear all of the visitors from the cemetery and the guards change into camo gear and guard the tomb from a shelter.

[Norbert]

128. If they were granted the privilage of getting inside...

...because of the weather I'm sure they would respectfully refuse to do so and continue to walk the mat. That has happened once before.

I watched the changing of the guard when I was eleven years old. It was impressive to me but at that age I did not fully understand the significance of this even though my father was there to teach me about it. The next time I see it my reaction will be much different I guarantee it.

[dballance]

26. Thank You. I was getting sick of all the rude, snide and stupid comments

I bet there was list a mile long of soldiers who volunteered for that duty during these harsh times.

[LynneSin]

27. My only 2 cents is the safety of those guarding it

DC is pretty much right there at the heart of this storm and it's not worth the lives of those guarding it to have them stand thru the storm.

[Recovered Repug]

56. There are plans to deal with severe weather.

In 2003, when hurricane Isabel hit, the Old Guard was ordered (or at least given the option) to remain in shelter. They guards chose to continue to walk their post.

http://www.snopes.com/military/hurricane.asp

[sarge43]

126. They won't be put at risk

They're too valuable. Only one in five who volunteer are selected for the training. Only a small fraction of those make the grade. Then, the pressure is really on.

[treestar]

29. Depends on what is considered disrespectful

I see where they need to guard it, but there hopefully is a limit somewhere. Like they don't have to lose their lives guarding it, hopefully? If the weather gets no worse, fine, but there's a point where they should come in out of the rain. If that's "disrespectful" so be it.

[eqfan592]

65. By my understanding there are indeed such limits.

I'm in my phone, but if you do a quick google search on the topic i believe you'll relevant relevant information.

[TwilightGardener]

30. People who belittle gestures of honor and respect

for those who died in service to this country don't belong on a Democratic website.

[cliffordu]

71. Yep. Exactly.

[Lisa D]

104. Well said.

It's called common decency. Amazing that it's so difficult for some.

[OldDem2012]

31. Thank you. nt.

[jwirr]

36. Agree. I am wondering if those poor guys will be standing out there when the storm is at its worst

That will be life threatening.

[CheeseHead316]

37. Agreed.

Another Rec for you. Thank you, sir.

[liberal_at_heart]

40. We may not agree with those who decide to take us to war

but we are safe because there are men and women willing to put their lives in danger to keep us safe.

[Supersedeas]

43. k&r

[skeewee08]

45. Amen!!!!

[Lochloosa]

46. Thank you.

[progressivebydesign]

48. Agree 1,000%. It speaks of people who have no real world life experience.

And live in their heads, entirely.

[Wait Wut]

49. Agree 100%

There is no excuse. There are a lot of people on this site (and everywhere else) that have nothing better to do than to shit on other people's threads when they don't agree.

Apparently, it's too difficult to just ignore the thread and move on to something else. Especially when they encounter a thread that they know will be an emotional topic for so many of us here. It gives them a sense of power, I guess.

[freshwest]

123. +1

[CaliforniaPeggy]

54. Thank you for your clear thinking, my dear Aristus...

I could not agree more.

[The Wizard]

57. No mission too difficult

No sacrifice too great, duty first.

[glacierbay]

143. From one VN Vet to another

[The Wizard]

173. We, this band of brothers,

have a new mission: To keep America sane and focused on which direction must be taken for our survival as a democracy. People rely on us for our honesty and reason in difficult times. We ain't done yet.

[kestrel91316]

60. Thank you. Sad to see we have our own set of deranged haters here on the left.

[MADem]

61. As I said in another thread,

"You can lead a boor to culture, but you can't make him think."

[Spitfire of ATJ]

64. I still have the flag that covered the casket of my grandfather.....

It's never been unfolded since the honor guard handed it to my mother.

[Kurovski]

67. .

[garthranzz]

69. K&R

I salute your service. Thank you.

[sdfernando]

74. I'm with you man!

I'm not a veteran but I was raised in a military family and have a brother that served in the Old Guard. I get it. Thanks!!!!

[humbled_opinion]

75. Everyone has a right to their

Point of view, the military is supposedly used to protect that right. Leaders that abuse the power vested in them by the People should be held accountable. When you don't hold those in power accountable this is the kind of division you can expect among the people.

This is our military, the peoples military not the politicians military the sooner the politiicians understand that the better.

[H2O Man]

76. Recommended.

Thank you for this post.

I have no problem with differences of opinion. But there are some shit-stirrers taking advantage of the emotions in play on the OP/thread in question. There's no advantage in having that type of activity on DU.

[still_one]

77. Absolutely.

[Homer Wells]

79. A great big old K&R for this post

Thank you for saying this!

[pinboy3niner]

80. Recommended

[cynatnite]

81. This vet stands with you. n/t

[dembotoz]

82. yep you are 100 percent correct k and r

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

83. It was only a couple of posts in a mostly respectful thread

It don't mean nothing.

Anyway, the Tomb of the Unknowns is quite a memorial, and the people who stand guard there don't have an easy post. It's a lot more work than it looks like.

I certainly hope they're taking refuge from a hurricane. There are limits, and all that marble isn't going anywhere.

[Aerows]

85. I saw the post earlier

and I thought "Good for them." Who is disrespecting these fine young men?

[Aerows]

88. People on this board

Need to quit doing the Republicans jobs for them by making all Democrats look like unpatriotic assholes. And some DUers need to stop helping them by giving them visibility.

Don't respond to anyone that thinks that these fine young men are wrong. Most of us DO NOT.

[buckyblue]

135. A thousand times yes!

I am a Vet, married to an Active Duty Soldier.

People do not understand what Soldiers go through to serve.

Politically, many Soldiers become conservative and driven to embrace the Republican party after they see/hear Progressive/Liberal/Democrats dogging them out...disparaging their service...it's horrible.

I am not openly political, but do try to engage people around me and make them think, give them some facts.

You might as well hand me a dead chicken to hit them with- after such ugly remarks, 99% of Soldiers are done with Democrats. It makes me want to cry.

[barbtries]

89. i'm with you.

i was moved by the picture, and i was moved when i watched the changing of the guard at Arlington.

[meti57b]

91. We were not able to stop the wars, so let us at least honor and mourn those who died.

(I agree with you)

[lynne]

93. Thank you for saying this and you are 100% right -

- some of the remarks upset me, too. I only hope those individuals are possibly young and immature and will have an opportunity to understand the devotion of those that guard the Tomb and come to respect the institution.

[eggplant]

94. Honestly, the vitriol is very disturbing. n/t

[Swede Atlanta]

95. This is pervasive in our society today....

People do not respect others, the property of others or the interests of others....

It is a symptom of a "me, me, me" mentality that the GOP promotes. It is that me and only me counts. Everyone else is on their own. I don't care if I trample on their property, leave my soda or coffee cup on their lawn, drop my lit cigarette, yell out "liar" to the President of the country, etc.

These people don't care. They think it is all about them, that there is no longer an "us".

They disgrace and disrespect the tomb of the unknown soldier but that isn't anything.

We lack a sense of civil responsibility and civil discourse in this nation. The wealthy have snowed at least 40+ percent of the people that they should be made richer while their supporters suffer. The other half are divided between themselves.

Unless we can return to a society of mutual respect and civility our best days are indeed behind us.

[freshwest]

125. +1

[Clouseau2]

96. To all the veterans

I usually don't agree with the wars our leaders get our soldiers mired in, and I think we spend an outrageous amount of money on our military and war in general, but I'm always aware that while I'm sitting here at home in extreme comfort with every imaginable luxury at my fingertips or close by, some soldier is sitting in some hell hole of a country facing mortal danger, and with a different set of choices made in life that soldier could have been me, but it's not.

The fact that I am sitting here so comfortably in a wealthy country is also largely thanks to the soldiers willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in WW2.

[duhneece]

97. I honor the intent, the heart of those who want to serve

It's up to us civilians that they're not serving in vain, but their willingness to serve is what I want to honor.

[elbloggoZY27]

98. Respect The Vets

What an insult to disrespect the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. When I was in Hawaii I paid a visit to Punch Bowl National Cemetery and saw lot of Unknowns dated December 07, 1941.

I am a Vietnam Veteran.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. If only someone had included Ann Coulter and the "c" word

You could guarantee yourself a month full of hair-tearing ZOMG THE WORLD IS ENDING THINK OF TEH CHILDRENNNN meta outrage.

Priorities, remember.

[Gore1FL]

101. I respect them

I simply don't want them to be added to the names laid to rest in Arlington because of performing ceremonial duty in a hurricane.

[Daemonaquila]

151. Really not an issue.

They have good gear and reasonable length shifts. They have shelter below, and support. If conditions get so dangerous (such as if there's baseball sized hail falling) that they're truly at risk, they are taken inside and there are other provisions for monitoring. It's no big deal - except to the people who appreciate their labors, and to them.

[Gore1FL]

188. I applaud them.

Should a tragedy ever happen in such an occasion there is no one who will say it was worth it. That's all I am saying. Those individuals are worth more than that they are guarding.

[Gman]

102. The usual DU idiots that think they're much more intelligent and morally superior

to anyone else here. In other words, the purists.

[Enrique]

103. i disagree totally with this thread

the dissenters in the other thread were perfectly ok imho, nothing disrespectful or gratuitous about what they said. I think irreverence is important with things like religion and the military, where people take advantage of reverence for their own bad ends.

I have no problem with people being irreverent toward any religion, but I have a big problem with people shitting on religious people for no reason.

Similarly I would hate it if people were shitting on members of the military, for example the Ted Rall cartoon about Pat Tillman. That's a different story. But the dissenters were not doing that, and I disagree with a post calling out the dissenters, and the more recs this thread has the more I disagree with it.

[quinnox]

129. +1

Thank you for saying this, I agree. For me, I think the symbolism of the honor guard is well, kinda goofy, just like I think the extravagant religious garb the Catholic higher ups wear is quite silly looking and the ritualistic, elaborately staged religious ceremonies are goofy, and I don't have any respect for it. Nor must I. This is a supposed free country. And I think those using this as a club to say you are unpatriotic and close to treasonous if you don't respect this ritual are just like right wingers who do the same kind of tactic.

As a famous saying goes - "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"

[Bucky]

106. If I didn't believe in sharing my country with ingrates & dumbasses...

... I'd've been arrested for boxing up Republicans and mailing them to Haiti years ago.

I found the photo of the guards at the Tomb inspiring and reassuring. That said, democracy & free speech have always been a gamble that, in the free flow ideas, the duds sink to the bottom. Hopefully reactions in this thread have reassured you that those who appreciate, even if they can't understand, the honors those Marines are paying, are the majority of DUers.

[underpants]

107. I thought it was about the fact a FACT that the picture is from last month

I served in the Cav but that has nothing to do with the matter - the Army was lying.....used to that by now?

[queentonic]

108. dulce bellum inexpertis

"War is sweet to those who have never experienced it."

This is my quote to those who are already beating the drums to go to war against Iran.

[Aristus]

109. Welcome to DU, queentonic!

Dear God, let that not happen. I have friends in Iran...

[great white snark]

111. Thank you.

Very well said.

[Hippo_Tron]

112. Part of it is people won't freakin Google, they don't actually stand there in hurricane force winds

As soon as I started reading that thread with people saying "they're going to just stand there all day and risk their lives to guard an empty tomb", my bullshit detector went off.

Folks, this is the US Army. Considering they have 200+ years of experience engaging in combat through harsh conditions, it shouldn't be that hard to believe they've figured out a way to keep the tomb guarded and keep their soldiers safe through the worst of the storm. They're not going to have their soldiers just stand there in 90 mph winds and hope for the best. That would be ridiculous.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57542139/despite-sandy-soldiers-guard-tomb-of-unknown-soldier/

[Skittles]

113. AGREED

former sergeant SKITTLES

[MrScorpio]

114. I'm right there with you, Brother nt

[grantcart]

115. 100% agreement

[Greywing]

117. Well said and I couldn't agree more! n/t

[Curmudgeoness]

118. The number of rec's on this OP

gives hope that the people who are disrespecting soldiers, and the symbol or all soldiers who have lost their lives doing what they were either compelled to do or believed it was the right thing to do, are a minority here.

[NYC_SKP]

121. Agreed.

Anyone who doesn't "get it" about the need to respect those who serve are likely to be posers, claiming to be progressive because it's fashionable or something.

Clueless.

[NYC_SKP]

120. knr-nt

[mailman82]

122. This Vet stands with you!

Thank you for posting this!

[Moondog]

124. Strongly agree.

[TransitJohn]

130. Ever wonder why there aren't national tombs for artists? If there were, they'd deserver veneration

I am not a fan of the American military fetish.

[buckyblue]

138. Yet

You benefit from the freedom that is granted by it.


Only a sick, demented person- and they exist certainly- would be a "fan" of war, death, killing, etc. I am not a fan.

Military members serve our Nation. They are serving right now all over the world. You might know their boss: Barack Obama.

[TransitJohn]

155. LOL

Okay. USA! USA!

[buckyblue]

171. Quiet respect

Being respectful is different from laughing and chanting.

It is sad you cannot see a difference.

[iamthebandfanman]

142. Thats a stretch.

If anything, the tomb represents the CONSEQUENCE OF WAR.

Its unfortunate you think others get joy out of its existence.

[Aristus]

146. This isn't a fetish.

Simply a plea for decency...

[JoeyT]

131. Glad I read this thread first.

After seeing the thread that inspired it, I'd have probably been one of the people wishing they could go inside where it's warm and dry and guard it. I'm glad to know they don't have to stand in a hurricane.

It isn't really even a matter of respect for the military: It's kind of basic human decency.

[Stinky The Clown]

134. Bravo

[Trailrider1951]

137. Yes, me too.

My father served in the Army, 1st Armored Division, in WWII. He enlisted about a year before Pearl Harbor, as a way of broadening his horizons. He served honorably, and was decorated, including the Purple Heart, awarded after being wounded at the invasion of Italy at Anzio. Our military men and women deserve our respect and support, without fail. Please remember to separate the people who serve the orders from those that GIVE those orders. And if you have a problem with the orders, address them to those that GIVE, rather than those that RECEIVE. Thanks!

[iamthebandfanman]

141. So dumb.

if you asked those kids if they wanted to be there, theyd say yes.

period.

No, they dont just have to be there... They WANT to be.

[WooWooWoo]

144. +1

[Kaleva]

145. Looking at the names of those who rec'd the OP, it's a very diverse group.

Many of the names I don't recognize but of those that I do, it's a broad cross section of DU that at least agrees on the opinion expressed by this particular OP.

[IDoMath]

149. I wish we could stand with them, if only for a few minutes each

We allowed our troops to be misused. We are allowing them to be abused by the same system that misused them. While we have sat comfortably at home and while we CONTINUE TO SIT AT OUR COMPUTERS these soldiers wish only to honor their fallen comrades. So, yes, they deserve to be lionized and the naysayers can just shut the fuck up. (And if you dare to complain about the sore feet you got "marching", just realize, you have feet to march with.

[blackspade]

150. +1000

Well said.

[benld74]

153. I disagree with those making those types of comments wholeheartedly,,

they can have their opinions, BUT I believe they are wrong.

[politicaljack78]

154. Thanks for your service and well stated. n/t

[bluesbassman]

156. Sometimes people's fervor for their ideology and their vision of the world clouds their judgment.

Last edited Tue Oct 30, 2012, 03:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Thanks for posting this Aristus.

[Aristus]

157. Thanks, bluesbassman.

Everyone who knows me knows I'm the farthest thing from a militarist.

But surely, the unknown fallen and those who guard them are worthy of respect, right?

[bluesbassman]

160. The utmost respect. But respect is a rare commodity these days.

Those of us who wore a uniform have a bond to those that rest in Arlington that service forged. Those that choose to not respect the sacrifice of our fallen soldiers as we do are at a disadvantage; their view is through the filter of cynicism built and fueled by a system that abuses the sacrifice offered by such men and women. I do not begrudge them their right to their lack of respect, but I will not, as you will not, stand for open disrespect of that which the do not understand or appreciate.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

158. Interesting part of our culture that requires respected dedication...

As silly as I find it, it doesn't harm me that it's occurring. Therefore, I don't know why anyone would waste their energy on bashing it.

[sibelian]

162. Well said, sir, and respect to you.

To many people conflate the armed forces with the wars they are instructed to fight.

[ErikJ]

163. Loyalty and ritual can be taken to foolish extreme

WHenever religious or national ritual puts life in danger you have to question its validity.

[Ash_F]

164. The Tomb of the Unknowns: WWI, WWII, Korea and formerly Vietnam

I firmly believe all US soldiers drafted into Korea and Vietnam would have done the right thing in resisting. I can say with confidence that I would have rather gone to jail than to be forced fight an illegal war for the wealthy elite and xenophobes. And I hope I don't have to actually prove it some future conflict with Iran or Pakistan or whoever.

That said, a memorial is a memorial. Let the dead have peace.

[Crabby Appleton]

165. Fuckin-A Recced

[MaeScott]

167. K and R. Absolutely correct. nt

[davidpdx]

168. I didn't see the posts and would rather not

I did hear they were going to be continuing the use of the guards during the storm. It actually impressed me.

Back in 1997 I went for a College Democrats convention in Washington DC and ended up pretty much ditching the convention to go sight seeing. I went out to Virginia and to Arlington Cemetery and saw the Tomb of the Unknown Solider as well as JFK's grave. It is something everyone should see at least once because there are no words to describe it.

Also made it out to Mount Vernon as well which was beautiful. I very much liked visiting Virginia. Other than DC it is the only other place I've been on the east coast.

[era veteran]

169. I read that crap under that great image

Some big DU asses showed themselves.
Soldier on Brothers.

The muffled drum's sad roll has beat
The soldier's last tattoo;
No more on Life's parade shall meet
That brave and fallen few.
On fame's eternal camping ground
Their silent tents to spread,
And glory guards, with solemn round
The bivouac of the dead.

[Enrique]

172. only 98% of people reacted to the photo in the correct way.

we need to go after the holdouts who had a different emotional reaction.

By the way, the U.S. Army apparently posted this photo as propaganda:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002&pid=1661880

[pinboy3niner]

186. That was BS posted by a now-PPR'd DU intruder

Some clerk or junior officer posted a file photo from last month on Facebook as an example of the Old Guard's sentries serving during a storm. The Army apoogized, and replaced the photo with a current one.

The accusation that the original photo was Army propaganda is ludicrous.

[Aviation Pro]

175. +Google....

...the words sacred ground in this case are an understatement.

Don't fuck with the Tomb or the Old Guard.

[Warren Stupidity]

177. Me too. I was outraged at whoever released that file photo trying to capitalize

on the disaster from Sandy. What exactly was the point of that nonsense?

There is a huge storm, NYC is flooded, here is a file photo of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers with guards standing in the rain. Seriously, what the fuck?

[WilliamPitt]

178. THANK YOU

I had a feeling that thread was going to wind up making me want to puke. I was, sadly, not wrong.

[prairierose]

179. Thank you for saying this.....

I do not understand those who feel the need to say hateful things at any time. In a crisis, it seems even worse. When I see that here, I always wonder how those people can call themselves liberal or progressive or whether they are just trolls. I do think that it is important to voice opposition to their disrespectful and hateful words.

Thanks again for saying this.

[Enrique]

187. no one said anything hateful

a few people, a very few people, said things which were not at REVERENT as some people wanted. That is not the same as hateful.

[bvar22]

181. I am more disgusted by the disrespect shown to our living veterans...

... by the miserly funding of Veteran's Programs.

[marble falls]

185. As a vet and peacefreak, I agree, the tombs of the unknowns are about the other victims of ....

corporate warfare.