Need help with a debate on FB about Benghazi

[rightsideout]

I'm requesting help on how to respond to an angry Right Wing friend on FB about Benghhazi. No. I'm not a troll and I really need some advice on how to respond. We all need factoids on how to respond to these insults. These people are obsessed with it and using it against Obama as their Carter Moment. I want to cut them down at their knees. I've already told the guy Republicans cut funding to Embassy Security and other facts and that just made him even angrier.

He originally posted a message about "Obama being a Coward." so I responded back. It's gotten really heated and I need some advice or should I just walk away. Here is his latest message.

"I don't want to hear ANYTHING about what was done before this ocurred. Obama had the ability to immediately defend the embassy in Bengahzy and REFUSED. I'm sick and tired of bullshit liberal arguements blaming Republicans for everything that has gone wrong over the last 4 years. Grow the fuck up and accept responsibility for what your disgrace of a President has done. Man up and acknowledge that they put politics above Americans lives. This has NOTHING to do with a lack of funding and everything to do with a cowardly, immoral President. And I don't give a shit what other countries "rules" are. In accordance with international law, embassies are considered sovereign territory. We have a duty to defend any and all diplomatic and military personnel posted there."

Give me some response ideas to this. Thanks.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. Factoids are the building blocks of truthiness.

Maybe you mean facts.

[Angry Dragon]

2. Tell your 'friend' to give facts and links to back up his opinions

[rightsideout]

5. You're right

I don't see any facts or link in his outburst. It's all fluff and name calling which is typical.

[Angry Dragon]

18. and I do not think you need friends like this

just my opinion

[Lex]

3. What's his link for Obama refusing?

Anything? Pulled it out of his ass?

[rightsideout]

14. This is the graphic he initially posted

COWARD (Obama logo inside the "O&quot
You left them there to die abandoned


So I responded saying the Republicans cut embassy funding before the raid, twice!

Also told him it was a consulate and not an Embassy and that the host countries are supposed to provide the security.

[Lex]

26. So he has nothing to back up his

statement about Obama refusing? He posted a stupid political propaganda picture? But no links to facts?

[sinkingfeeling]

4. Just tell him to turn off Fox News, because no sane person in the world believes

that bullshit.

[rightsideout]

17. Yea, I told them that before in another debate

He got angry that I insinuated he watched Fox News.

[louis-t]

27. Funny how they all deny watching fox.

If that were the case, why is fox so popular?

[PatSeg]

39. Also funny how they parrot

FOX-speak verbatim. Just coincidence I guess.

[Hugabear]

6. The nearest help was several hours away

The nearest backup was several hours away, there's no way they could have made it in time to help. Not unless they possess some type of transporter like on Star Trek.

As far as backup forces being ordered to "stand down", the CIA has denied issuing any such orders. If your "friend" insists on this line of attack, have them provide solid PROOF - not just what some right-wing radio propagandist told them.

[justiceischeap]

7. Here's the problem

All right-wing "sources" are spouting this bullshit. If you try and give them links elsewhere, it then becomes a matter of the "liberal" media covering up for "the One" to get reelected.

All of it is bullshit that has been refuted by reputable sources but they won't believe those sources, so it's a lost cause.

[Narraback]

8. There is no "Embassy" in Bengahzy.

Our Embassy to Libya is in Tripoli. http://libya.usembassy.gov/

Ask him for proof to his argument. Better yet don't bother. In reality nothing you say will matter.

Peace

[JustAnotherGen]

9. Start here . . .

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/10/benghazi-libya-state-emails


Keep calm and go paragraph by paragraph. They've got nothing. Absolutely nothing.

[and-justice-for-all]

10. I have seen that horse shit too...nt

[A-Schwarzenegger]

11. Tell him to go fuck himself.

[veganlush]

12. obama liberated libya

Without spilling the blood of even one soldier. the four that died later were there by choice, serving their county. Reagan was warned but still allowed 241 Americans, mostly marines, to be killed in their sleep by terror attack. he was warned that they were sitting ducks. afterwards he cut and ran like puss.. tell your friend that you can't take him seriously until he calls Reagan a coward. McCain and Romney in 2008 both said they wouldn't have gone after bin Laden. Bush didn't either. Reagan killed kqudaffys eight year old daughter, then cut and ran. Obama had to finish that terror sponcer too, since reagan couldn't handle it.

[AtomicKitten]

13. Here's some ammo.

Attacks on diplomatic embassies and consulates under the Bush Administration:

June 14, 2002, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Suicide bomber kills 12 and injures 51.

February 20, 2003, international diplomatic compound in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Truck bomb kills 17.

February 28, 2003, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Gunmen on motorcycles killed two consulate guards.

July 30, 2004, U.S. embassy in Taskkent, Uzbekistan
Suicide bomber kills two.

December 6, 2004, U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Militants stormed and occupied perimeter wall. Five killed, 10 wounded.

March 2, 2006, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Suicide car bomber killed four, including a U.S. diplomate directly targeted by the assailants.

September 12, 2006, U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria
Gunmen attacked embassy with grenades, automatic weapons, and a car bomb (though second truck bomb failed to detonate). One killed and 13 wounded.

January 12, 2007, U.S. embassy in Athens, Greece
A rocket-propelled grenade was fired at the embassy building. No one was injured.

July 9, 2008, U.S. consulate in Istanbul, Turkey
Armed men attacked consulate with pistols and shotguns. Three policemen killed.

March 18, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen
Mortar attack misses embassy, hits nearby girls' school instead.

September 17, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen
Militants dressed as policemen attacked the embassy with RPGs, rifles, grenades and car bombs. Six Yemeni soldiers and seven civilians were killed. Sixteen more were injured.

[rightsideout]

31. Thanks for the ammo

I don't recall the Republicans going after Bush over security issues like this.

[AtomicKitten]

38. Nope, it's all political posturing.

Frankly, just mentioning 9-11-01 constitutes checkmate to the wingnut sniveling wheeze.

[chille1]

15. # 1 it was not the Embassy that was attacked .

It was the Consolata in BenGahzi ,#2 They dint have Marines stationed there.#3 ask him or her if an American Embassy has ever been attacked under his party's President if he says No ,#4 Fuck him your wasting your time!

[JoePhilly]

16. And Bush waited more than a month to "respond" to the Aug 6th 2001 PDB.

Ask him how upset he was about that. Did Bush "man-up" and take responsibility. Not that I recall.

Ask him if removing Saddam was worth more than 4000 dead American soldiers (and 10s of thousands more wounded). Ask if the trillion plus was worth it.

Then point out that we've removed two dictators, and yes tragically we lost 4 American lives in the process, and we spent about what we spent in one month in Iraq to do it.

If he wasn't outraged then, he should STFU now.

[veganlush]

19. you can also tell him

That it wasn't an embassy. also, the requests that were made were for Tripoli not bengazi

[liberalmuse]

20. This is a good article...

http://www.nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/benghazi-the-real-libya-story-is-no-story-20121024

[UTUSN]

21. Here: McCAIN was whining that the ambassador told HIM about security needs

So Mc5PLANES did NOTHING!1 And the key meme of the day is: "Somebody told me this is as bad as Watergate, well, nobody DIED in Watergate."

I don't know why Mc5PLANES and GINGRICH are seen as desirable guests for media yakking.


Wingnuts are pinning their hopes on PETRAEUS, but PETRAEUS has Romnesia!1

Wingnut outlets are aflood with hopes that PETRAEUS is “throwing OBAMA under the bus” and that he says “It wasn’t me” (who supposedly denied requests for help.

Well, that wasn’t what he was saying when he sent early briefings to Congress critters or when he testified, and a Rethug critter says there was no daylight between what he and what the Administration were saying at the time.

But the backdrop for all of their faux outrage is: TeaBagger congress critters blocked funds for State security since 2010. RAYGUN cut and ran when 299 marines & other personnel were bombed in Beirut; should he have FORESEEN it or responded in kind within an HOUR?!1 Besides that he negotiated with and armed terrorists. The Cuban 1st generation Exiles/CIA-ers hated JFK/Dems for their claims for military air support. VFW bars were frequent scenes of ground combat vets griping against Air Force vets for generically/anecdotally not providing air support upon IMMEDIATE demands.


*************QUOTE**********

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57535773/cia-saw-possible-terror-ties-day-after-libya-hit-ap/

[font size=5]CIA saw possible terror ties day after Libya hit: AP (my/UTUSN edit:: “But...”)[/font]

AP/ October [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]19[/FONT], 2012, 5:18 AM

.... Such [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]raw[/FONT] intelligence reports by the CIA on the ground would normally be [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]sent first to[/FONT] analysts at the headquarters in [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Langley[/FONT], Va., for vetting and comparing against other intelligence derived from eavesdropping drones and satellite images. [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Only then[/FONT] would such intelligence generally be [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]shared with the White House and later, Congress[/FONT], a process that can take [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]hours, or days[/FONT] if the intelligence is coming only from one or two sources who may or may not be trusted.

U.S. intelligence officials say [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]in this case, the delay[/FONT] was due in part to the time it took to analyze various conflicting accounts. One official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss the incident publicly, explained that it "was clear [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]a group of people gathered[/FONT] that evening" in Benghazi, but that [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]the early question was "whether extremists took over a crowd or they were the crowd."[/FONT] ....

[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]"The early sense from the intelligence community differs from what we are hearing now[/FONT]," Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said. "It ended up being pretty [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]far afield[/FONT], so we want to figure out why ... though we don't want to deter the intelligence community from sharing their best first impressions" after such events in the future.

[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]"The intelligence briefings we got a week to 10 days after were consistent with what the administration was saying,"[/FONT] said Rep. William Thornberry, [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]R[/FONT]-Texas, a member of the House Intelligence and Armed Services committees. Thornberry would not confirm the existence of the early CIA report but voiced skepticism over [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]how sure[/FONT] intelligence officials, including CIA Director David [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Petraeus, seemed of their original account[/FONT] when they briefed lawmakers on Capitol Hill. ....

Two officials who witnessed Petraeus' closed-door testimony to lawmakers in the week after the attack said that during questioning he acknowledged that there were some intelligence analysts who disagreed with the conclusion that an unruly mob angry over the video had initiated the violence. But those officials said [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Petraeus[/FONT] did not mention the CIA's early eyewitness reports. He did [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]warn legislators that the account could change as more intelligence was uncovered[/FONT], they said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the hearing was closed. ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[HopeHoops]

22. August, 2001 Memo: "Al Qaeda determined to strike US." - while the shrub was on vacation.

What more do you need to say?

[davepdx]

23. You might find some assistance in this snopes.com article

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/benghazi.asp

Quite a few of the accusations being thrown about are unsubstantiated "some people say" type of arguments that are quoted from one right-wing blog/website to the next. These frustrate me the most.

[DCBob]

24. Only RW hacks trying to score some political points are concerned about this.

Ignore them.

[KharmaTrain]

25. You're Arguing With A Piece Of Furniture...

...hellbent on blaming everything he can on President Obama...and echoing everything he hears on faux noise and hate radio. No matter what facts you present, he will have a talking point that refutes what you say. Try to quote a source and he'll find a reason that it's "biased". I'd ask him one thing...name the capital city of the country and see if he replies Benghazi...that tells you all you need to know about where he gets his "information" and how little he really knows.

I refuse to argue talking points and you should, too. Let him fume and stew...our time is better served getting our people to the polls and moving forward...

[rightsideout]

28. You're correct

He's not going to vote for Obama no matter what I say. It's a lost cause. I flat out told him this is the Carter Moment he was looking for! And I know it is. They want to find any excuse to cut down Obama.

My main concern is when someone posts BS like this up other people see it. Maybe some undecideds who could be swayed. But chances are most of his friends already feel the same way so it's a lost cause and it's like talking to furniture.

[Lucinda]

29. He's just misinformed. Can't hurt to get him the info in the links upthread.

Good luck.

[treestar]

36. I just state that it is not true and post the links

maybe add in they are crazy, creating their own reality - that ought to put pause to anyone else who sees it and has a modicum of sense.

[marezdotes]

30. My Mother made a comment to me once and I never forgot it -

In your life you are lucky if you have 3 people you can really call a friend the rest are only acquaintances. Is this person really a "friend"? If not tell him/her to get lost and delete that person or whatever you guys do over there. But that's just what I would do. I have NO patience for Republican's.

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. Of course ...

the guy/gal is his "friend" ... the facebook said so.

[veganlush]

32. the coward label

Is non sensical anyway. it happened and Obama has vowed to get the perps. and he will, like he did with bin Laden and kquaffy, the ones that Reagan and Bush (and McCain and Romney) all pussed out on.

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. As someone who frequently debates with rightwinger ...

I have learned that when these words:

"I don't want to hear ANYTHING ...

Escape their lips, believe them ... there is nothing, no amount of information, that will sway them. So unless you are arguing for sport, just let it go.

But if you are arguing for sport, you might want to correct him on this:

In accordance with international law, embassies are considered sovereign territory.

Neither Consulates, nor Embassies are "sovereign territory."

http://www.businessdayonline.com/NG/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16176:embassies-are-not-sovereign-territory-&catid=96:columnists&Itemid=539

Host nations tend to respect an Embassy, in accordance with the Geneva Convention, but this does not establish sovereignty; rather, the host nation is respecting its relationship with the visiting nation.

So offer your friend this advice: When the local authorities come aknocking when he's on a child sex tourism run in Thailand, Vietnam or Mexico, only run to consulate and/or Embassy with the hope they will get him out of the country quickly because the host nation can and WILL come in the consulate or Embassy and arrest his butt.

[treestar]

34. His entire paragraph is devoid of actual content

He "doesn't want to hear" any evidence, and has none.

Talk about desperation. They are trying as hard as they can, it's not working, and now they're just stamping their little feet. Pathetic.

[Aerows]

42. Exactly. Ignore them

get out the vote, and stop feeding into these stupid CT's that republicans come up with the divert the real necessity - voting.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

35. I tell them the war on terror isn't defined by

the boundaries of any one country. We are at war and the sad truth is people
die in wars. Anyone questioning the presidents commitment to the well being
of every citizen and soldier better be prepared to hold every other wartime
president to the same standard. STFU and deal with it.

[Aerows]

40. It has been debunked on every major news outlet

I'm not sure why you need our help unless you are looking to "open our eyes" or some such ridiculousness as that.

The right is desperate to make a molehill into a mountain that, frankly, the molehill is about an inch tall. Don't even feed into it. You will never convince them. Focus your attention on things that matter, like getting out the vote to other Democrats.

[Shankapotomus]

41. Ask him what he thinks of Ronald Reagan as a President.

And what is he asserting should be done to President Obama for this apparent lack of security? Should he be impeached?

I ask because, in 1983, under the Ronald Reagan administration 241 marines and military personnel were killed in a suicide bombing at a marine base in Beirut Lebanon. What does your Facebook friend think of that? What is your Facebook friend's opinion of the presidency of Ronald Reagan? If he is basing the alleged inadequacy of the Obama administration on 4 American deaths, and it's not a partisan attack, he will have to concede the republican icon, Ronald Reagan, was equally inadequate as President. Moreover, Republican darling, Ronald Reagan, was advised to move the base from the area well known for terrorist activity. He ignored the advice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

From a now defunct Yahoo news article:

"WASHINGTON - A former defense secretary for Ronald Reagan says he implored the president to put Marines serving in Beirut in a safer position before terrorists attacked them in 1983, killing 241 servicemen.

"I was not persuasive enough to persuade the president that the Marines were there on an impossible mission," Caspar Weinberger says in an oral history project capturing the views of former Reagan administration officials.

He said one of his greatest regrets was in failing to overcome the arguments that "'Marines don't cut and run,' and 'We can't leave because we're there'" before the devastating suicide attack on the lightly armed force.

"They had no mission but to sit at the airport, which is just like sitting in a bull's-eye," Weinberger said. "I begged the president at least to pull them back and put them back on their transports as a more defensible position."

[madmom]

43. When someone tells me they don't want to hear about

what bush or the previous administration did or didn't do, I tell them "when what they did/didn't do stops affecting my life, then I will stop talking about it!"

[Anita Win]

44. Ask him how the weather is on Bullshit Mountain.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

45. .