What happens if the NE states aren't ready for the election?

[BainsBane]

Last edited Tue Oct 30, 2012, 12:32 AM - Edit history (1)

If the Northeastern states don't have electricity and operations restored by the election, what will happen? Will those states hold their elections later? I assume each decision would be made on a state by state basis since elections are run at the state level. But if the rest of us vote on Nov. 6 and some states vote later, how will the election be effected? Or is it conceivable that the entire election could be postponed? (I can just imagine the right wing conspiracy theories). I realize this is all speculative, but I'm hoping some of you may have some knowledge of election law that can help us understand possible outcomes.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

1. States get to run their elections

but they don't get to choose the date for federal elections. Congress has set that date, and unless Congress changes it, it will be Nov 6, period.

[BainsBane]

3. Okay, so . . .

they would have to vote on Nov. 6, even if they weren't ready.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

6. Yes n/t

[LisaL]

12. No.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

14. And the reason you say no is...

...what exactly?

[LisaL]

36. From reading on the subject. It's not so simple because it hasn't been done before.

But it's not impossible.

"Federal law requires presidential elections to be held on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, but it also provides that if a state “has failed to make a choice on the day prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct.”"

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/83020.html#ixzz2Akm4ipYD

[LisaL]

8. I don't believe that to be accurate.

How can the state vote if its a disaster area?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

10. Sorry you don't believe it

But it is what is it. Congress sets the date of federal elections, and they have set the date as the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November, which this year is Nov 6. States don't get to set their own election dates, they only get to decide how the elections will be conducted.

[LisaL]

20. States can postpone elections.

"Yes, but the details of the postponement would vary state by state. Many states have constitutional provisions or statutes that detail their ability to suspend or reschedule an election in the event of an emergency. For instance, a section of the election law in Maryland (which is being hit heavily by Sandy) allows the governor to postpone an election or specify alternate voting locations when issuing an emergency proclamation, and it allows the state election board to “petition a circuit court to take any action the court considers necessary to provide a remedy that is in the public interest and protects the integrity of the electoral process” in the event of extraordinary circumstances that don’t constitute a state of emergency. As for states without specific provisions of statutes, the governor could still reasonably use his or her emergency powers to suspend the election during a state of emergency. The exact person or people who get to decide whether an election is postponed or extended varies from state to state, too; in some cases, it’s the governor or the secretary of state, while in others the power belongs to the state board of elections."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/10/hurricane_sandy_election_what_if_people_don_t_have_power_on_election_day.html

[SickOfTheOnePct]

22. State law doesn't trump federal law n/t

[glacierbay]

29. States can reset their state elections

but Fed. elections are set my the Feds. and states can't change that, so you are wrong about the states being able to reset the Fed. elections.

[LisaL]

32. slate.com article is talking about federal election.

A state has to chose its electors by Dec 11. Which presumably could still be accomplished even if a particular state postpones a federal election.

[glacierbay]

34. True, but states can't postpone the Fed. election

only the Congress can do that and do you see the Repigs agreeing to that? Not a fucking chance.
Gotta get ready for work, first day back from a 4 week vacation. If your in Sandy's path, stay safe.

[LisaL]

35. slate article says states have until Dec 11 to pick its electors.

That could be done even if election is postponed in a particular state.

[obamanut2012]

15. That is accurate -- the election is set by law

[BainsBane]

18. I can't see congress cooperating enough

to change the date of the election, particularly when the effected states are blue.

[LisaL]

23. The election date won't change.

But states can postpone elections because of emergency.

[glacierbay]

31. They can postpone state elections

not Fed. elections.

[gkhouston]

37. Apparently, Georgia did it for a Congressional election.

From The New Republic http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/109364/how-hurricane-sandy-could-spoil-election-day

In fact, the only federal precedent that deals with delaying elections has to do with the tangled history of congressional races in the post Civil Rights South. In the 1982 case Busbee v. Smith, which addresses an attempt by Georgia to delay congressional elections to fix discriminatory redistricting, the District Court for the District of Columbia noted “federal law contemplates that those elections may, under certain circumstances, be held at other times.” Georgia moved the general election for Congress in two districts to November 30.

This is one of the other hits I got for Busbee v. Smith:

from the LULAC Advisory on Interim Maps post-DC decision
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/420844/lulac-advisory-on-interim-maps-post-dc-decision.txt

In Busbee v. Smith, the D.C. District Court considered whether the court could order Georgia to hold its congressional elections on a date other than November 2. 549 F. Supp. at 522. Following the 1980 census, Georgia submitted a reapportionment plan to the Attorney General, but was refused preclearance. Id. at 520. Georgia developed a second plan, which was eventually approved. Id. By that time, however, the general elections loomed and the Government was concerned that the curtailed election schedule proposed by Georgia could itself have a discriminatory effect. See id. at 520-21. In response, the court adopted a revised election schedule that would have a special primary election take place on November 2, with a general election on November 30. Id. at 522. Georgia objected, arguing that 2 U.S.C. 7 required that all congressional general elections be held on November 2. Id. The court rejected that argument as contrary to "both elementary principles of statutory construction and Congress' intent as manifested by the purposes underlying the respective statutes." Id. at 524.
l2

[NYC Liberal]

11. States decide how they allocate their electors.

Every state today does so by a popular vote. Congress set the date for states to appoint their electors as the first Tuesday after the first Monday, but states can specify a later date if they haven't made a choice by then.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/3/1/2

Whenever any State has held an election for the purpose of
choosing electors, and has failed to make a choice on the day
prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent
day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

19. Note that the law says

"whenever any State has held an election..."


The election has to go forth on the prescribed date.

[NYC Liberal]

21. But the law doesn't prescribe a time for voting (otherwise there'd be no early voting)

It only says "The electors of President and Vice President shall be appointed..."

If a state delays voting, it won't have made a choice by the prescribed day, and would be allowed to appoint their electors on a later date.

[LisaL]

33. States have until Dec 11 to pick its electors.

So they could postpone the election and still pick electors by Dec 11.

[SCliberal091294]

2. ..

Should be ok. they could use paper ballots and also get electricity running at pollimg places. theu will restore electricity because their will be a full staff for relief plus volunteers

[BainsBane]

5. Do those states have paper ballots?

Some states don't even print paper ballots. If they don't have them ready, they can't use them.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

7. They could print and use absentee ballots. NT

[bluedigger]

4. We get to see the genius of the Founding Fathers at work.

Since the Presidency is decided by the Electoral College and not the popular vote it shouldn't matter. The states hold the elections as best they may and collect the votes they can. In theory, the inability of everyone to vote should be non-partisan, and the state by state results unchanged... In theory...

[LisaL]

9. So if they collect two votes that is o'key with you?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

13. Doesn't matter if it's OK with us or not

The law is what it is, and unless you believe that Congress will change it with one or two days notice, it isn't going to change.

[bluedigger]

17. No, but I don't worry too much about unrealistic scenarios.

I would be really surprised if more than 10% of voting precincts in the affected areas were completely unable to carry out their duties in another week.

[obamanut2012]

16. Oh Dear God

[SickOfTheOnePct]

24. Yeah

Votes could be written on index cards and hand counted, if necessary.

I just don't see this as something to be concerned about.

[Incitatus]

30. I remember 2000, and I do see something to be concerned about.

The Republicans will do anything and everything they can to use the aftermath of the storm to their advantage. What could be done to make sure everyone's vote gets counted isn't necessarily going to be done - Bush v.Gore.

[MannyGoldstein]

25. Mass is ready to do our part

Maybe 5% of us have lost power, and the storm is very over. We're ready to put Warren in the Senate and Obama back in the White House (and then defend against his Social Security cutting fetish, of course).

[davidpdx]

40. That's good to hear and very encouraging

That is a key state because of the US Senate seat.

[thelordofhell]

26. I believe they can delay everything down ballot at the state level

But the Presidential election is set for the 6th and can't be changed.

[LisaL]

27. So if election were tomorrow

Last edited Tue Oct 30, 2012, 01:31 AM - Edit history (1)

all these states would lose their right to vote?

[footinmouth]

28. What of those who have been displaced from their polling precincts?

What happens to those people. I'm in New York State and we don't have early voting. You can only vote absentee with an excuse and there are still a lot of rules. It's probably past the time to request an absentee ballot.

If you've been evacuated and can't get back to where you live and vote - how do you vote? Can they loosen up the rules on voting in your precinct at the state or local level?

[BainsBane]

38. the fact this is so unprecedented

leaves all of this in question. Let's hope everything is up and running by next Tuesday.

[Tx4obama]

39. In the video on the link below he says the fed election cannot be postponed, but can be 'extended'

some states have rules that the voting days/times can be incrementally extended

Here: http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/31/politics/sandy-election-day-postponement/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


Hope that helps