Senators Manchin and Sinema have helped destroy democracy

[Cyrano]

These two shits are more interested in their own reelections than they are in the well being of the American people.

We are under attack by an organization that used to call itself the Republican Party. Today, they are America's Fascist Party and they are on the verge of destroying our democracy, our freedoms and our country.

They could have been stopped had Manchin and Sinema provided the votes to stop them.

May they both rot. And may they forever be remembered as traitors who aided and abetted the barbarians who stole our freedoms.

[hamsterjill]

1. Could not agree more!

+1000

[doc03]

2. Those two have been responsible for wrecking

Biden's agenda and Democrats holding congress next year.

[Celerity]

3. History is going to be brutal to them.

[Carlitos Brigante]

8. Depends on who gets to write it. nt

[Celerity]

15. I have faith that non US historians will end up truth telling even if there actually is a complete

crhistofascist coup and those 2 were somehow 'rehabilitated' reputation-wise by the fascists (which will very likely never happen, firstly due to Sinema being an atheist bi-sexual, which baby white power jeebus doesn't approve of, and secondly, why would they even bother, as at that point Dems are ALL enemies of the Jeebus State).

[SunImp]

11. Hopefully History will be brutal to the people who kiss their assess too

[Novara]

45. I keep hearing "history will not be kind"

Do you think they give a fuck? Do any of these motherfuckers give a fuck? They obviously do not. So let's not pretend this has any meaning.

And it's no comfort at all to even imagine that well after we're all dead, children will be taught what traitors to America these two are. I doubt anyone will even bother to mention them, to be honest.

WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT THEY DO NOW, not how they will be remembered. If Schumer had a goddamned spine he'd get them in line the way Pelosi wrangles Democrats for votes in the House.

[Celerity]

46. Schumer doesn't have the power to do that, short of some illegal type of threat, which obviously is

not going to ever happen.

[Novara]

47. He has the power. He doesn't have the skill.

Or maybe it's just impossible to wrangle Manchin and Sinema.

But somehow if Nancy was a senator, I think she could do it.

[Celerity]

48. Please explain how he has the 'power'. Also, there is no chance Pelosi could force them either.

Sorry, but the reality of the situation is that those two obstructionists hold all the cards, and they so far have shown they are willing to play them in disastrous manner.

[Novara]

50. What I am getting at is that he is the Senate leader

He has the factual power to push his caucus in line.

Two things are at play here: he is ineffective and they are obstinate.

So that's why I say he has the power; he does not have the skill. Or it's an impossible task, but I have not heard anything about him taking those two aside for a come-to-Jesus moment, have you?

Look, I am not placing all the blame on Schumer. The great majority of the blame is Manchin and Sinema themselves. But it appears Schumer isn't trying very hard to get them in line. He could be making deals with them, for example, promising concessions elsewhere. But I'm not hearing anything about him working directly with those two. Not a peep.

[Celerity]

51. If he pushes them too hard one or both may bolt the party, especially Manchin. IF he gets assurances

from the the Rethugs (and especially Justice who would need to assure him he would not primary him) that they will 100% back him in 2024

Making it more complicated, Manchin voted to convict Trump, who is worshipped as a god in WV, multiple times, BUT almost 70% of WV Rethugs approve him atm (he is 10 points underwater with WV Dems)

I have NO clue (other than to say it is unlikely) if Trump would back Manchin in 2024 if he switched parties

Sinema is fucked, as the Rethugs will NEVER vote for her (bi-sexual, pro choice, atheist, also voted to convict Trump multiple times) in a primary, and unlike Manchin, has almost no shot at winning the 2024 Dem primary either, she us hated by AZ Dems, even more now with this abortion rights bill blockage. Ruben Gallego will destroy her in the primary. she literally has nothing to lose, and IF Manchin stays put as a Dem, and Schumer and others truly do try and lower the boom on her, she might flip just for revenge. She seems that petty.

It all is just a bad situation for us.

[SoonerPride]

4. They don't care.

And that's the truth.

[mitch96]

5. I think that was the plan.. Money and Power is their plan any way they can get it...nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

6. Their senate careers will end in January 2025

You were brave to post your OP, considering the very aggressive fan club both these Vichy Dems have on DU.

[PortTack]

20. Indeed!

[StevieM]

28. I don't think they have too many fans here.

Some people tolerate Manchin as the best we could hope for coming out of West Virginia. And it seems like everyone hates Sinema.

Anyway, they will both be gone after 2024.

[onecaliberal]

7. Shit stains of history.

[Tickle]

9. Manchin could have changed this whole country

if he had just voted with his party. I will never understand those two

[doc03]

12. But Manchin's poll numbers in WV are up with

Trump's polls. He is in there to stay.

[Celerity]

17. Those numbers are artificial, as the highest group by far who approves of him is Rethugs. In 2024,

especially if his opponent is the actual Rethug Justice, who is even more popular, who has outflanked Manchin on the left and the right, and who is a real billionaire who can spend basically unlimited money if need be, those Rethugs will vaporise in terms of actually voting for Manchin. Manchin is 10 points underwater with West Virginian Dems, so there is that as well. He also will not have that once in a couple decades 2018 Blue Wave at his back (and he still barely won with that, and a shit, damaged opponent)



Now, IF Justice doesn't run, and the Rethugs pick a truly fucked up candidate, then he MIGHT have a shot, but that poll was before the Roe v Wade overturn leak and before he and Sinema will block the abortion protection bill, so that 10 points underwater number with Dems may look like pleasant dream soon.

[doc03]

18. He can run as a Republican. nt

[Celerity]

19. ah, I was just replying with another scenario, and it is that

IF he can convince Justice to not only not run, but actually support him in the 2024 Rethug primary, he just might do that. If we lose the Senate in 2022 he also will have little incentive to not switch IF he gets that deal from Justice, as we are likely to get hit hard in the 2024 Senate races, so no path back to the majority for him, other than to party switch.

2024 is likely the worst Senate map in my lifetime for Dems, I would say. We have to defend as many as FOURTEEN potentially vulnerable seats (a few seats require strange things to fall into the vulnerable category), whilst the Rethugs only have TEN seats up overall, and all 10 are in deep red states, save for one, Scott in FL, and he will pretty hard to defeat, more than likely (especially with a Floridian, whether Trump (fake Floridian, but that state is full of fakes) or DeathSantis at the top of the ticket)

[Joenobody]

25. He'd beat Justice

And justice isn't interested in a job where he can't stay in Greenbrier County every night.

[Celerity]

31. I can see Justice not running, but the odds of Manchin beating Justice in 2024, if Justice goes all

in, are fairly low. Too many factors aligning against him I fear. Justice has outflanked him on both sides, Manchin is underwater with Dems already, and when Roe poofs a shedload of rage will come his way, especially from Dems (as he and Sinema will be the face of the fail on the abortion protection bill). It also is a POTUS year, and if Trump is on the ballot, WV will be a bloodbath for Dems, it's the most Trumpy State of all (and Manchin voted multiple times to convict and expel their orange god), and not a chance there is a 2018-style Blue Wave (and again, Manchin barely won even with the wave and with a poor opponent), even if no Trump. Those 69% of Rethugs will abandon Manchin like crazy for Justice, who is even more popular with them.

But, we may well never find out, as Manchin may flip parties, or Justice may not run (which may increase the chances of Manchin flipping parties, if he gets assurances and if we lose the Senate in 2022, as it is almost impossible, if we lose it in 2022, we can win it back in 2024, that map is utter shit for us, as I detailed above) or, the one thing never mentioned yet, Manchin himself may not run (doubtful).


welcome to DU btw

[Joenobody]

36. Trump went hilt deep after Manchine in 18

And couldn't get him. Justice lost a lot of fans with his covid policies and memories are short. Democrats aren't going to vote for Justice and enough Republicans have been voting for Manchin at some level for most of their adult lives and they won't stop. Especially not with him winning support over lately.

I also don't believe Justice is going to even want a legislative job or to have to stay outside of Lewisberg. He likes to coach basketball and makes the state police drive him back there every day from Charleston.

[Celerity]

53. Justice is running, Manchin's in deep trouble, as Justice has outflanked him on the left & the right

Link to tweet

[Cyrano]

14. It ain't that deep

The prick is concerned with his own wealth and power. And he doesn't give a rat's ass about the millions of Americans who are being, and will be, fucked because of him (and Sinema).

Does Manchin (and Sinema) realize that voting with Republicans has paved the road to the destruction of democracy?

[Polybius]

10. Sinema did vote for the federal abortion bill in February

Manchin opposed it.

[budkin]

13. Manchin I get but what happened to Sinema?

Was it purely money or some psychological thing?

[Cyrano]

16. You "get" someone who has fucked millions?

Maybe you could share your thoughts.

[budkin]

34. I "get" that he's an ultra conservative Democrat

Who is beholden to his fossil fuel donors.

[iemanja]

21. I think Trevor Noah had it right.

[Harker]

23. She teaches a college course on fundraising.

It's what she's all about.

That and being faux edgy.

[questionseverything]

32. I think it's that she won't break the filibuster

[BigmanPigman]

22. Speakers at the Pro Choice rally I attended called these 2

out for screwing up the filibuster. We Pro Choice advocates hate them!!!!!!!!

[Pobeka]

24. 52 senators are helping to destroy democracy.

2 of those 52, because of party affiliation made Chuck Schumer the Majority leader.

Any of those 52 could do the right thing.

[benfranklin1776]

26. Damn straight. Money grubbing quislings to their rotten core.

They must be tossed on the trash heap of utter irrelevancy by expanding our Senate majority this fall.💪🏼🦾

[bluboid]

27. brilliantly stated. Thank you!

[BlueJac]

29. Without a doubt!

In it for the money! Sickening!

[patphil]

30. Sad to say, it's true.

I would prefer they were more dedicated to helping the people of this nation stand up against the facists, but they're not doing that.

Too much personal ego; too much need for personal achievement. Not enough love for their country.

[Cyrano]

38. "Too much personal ego ..."

There are, and always will be, people who will put their own interests ahead of millions of their fellow citizens.

Could you do that? Could you say "I've got mine and fuck everyone else?"

I guess no one really knows until they actually face that decision. But I'd like to believe that the vast majority would act decently and place the well being/survival, of so, so many others, against their own accumulation of more wealth and power. (Perhaps that makes me a naive fool.)

[RaDaR63]

33. This thread sure is ugly.

It's as if some people here want to give the Senate majority back to the Republicans.

[Celerity]

37. like this?

give the Senate majority back to the Republicans

Joe Manchin joins with Tom Cotton to reroute $8 billion in climate funds to weapons systems

The West Virginia Democrat has reportedly made millions from his family's coal business

https://www.salon.com/2022/05/05/senate-democrats-join-with-to-vote-down-bernie-sanders-effort-to-stop-outsourcing/

Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., was the lone Democrat to join Republicans in a vote to approve a motion filed by Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., on Wednesday to strip billions of dollars from a green climate fund in order to increase spending on a military weapons system.

or perhaps this

Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin endorses Republican Sen. Susan Collins’s reelection

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democratic-sen-joe-manchin-endorses-republican-sen-susan-collinss-reelection/2019/04/11/57d57bde-5c9a-11e9-842d-7d3ed7eb3957_story.html

Sen. Joe Manchin III, a Democrat who represents a conservative state, offered his support Thursday to Sen. Susan Collins, a Republican from a state that tilts left, in her expected 2020 bid for reelection.

Democrats consider flipping her seat key to winning the Senate majority. But Manchin, of West Virginia, defended his support for Collins.

“For America to lose someone like Susan Collins would be an absolute shame,” Manchin said during in an interview on C-SPAN’s “Newsmakers” program, which airs Friday night. “I feel that strongly about this lady.”

Manchin called Collins a “dear friend” and said he’d go to Maine to campaign for her if she asked.

Manchin, Sinema join with GOP in rejecting attempt to change filibuster rules, effectively killing Democratic voting bill


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democrats-brace-for-likely-defeat-of-voting-rights-push-due-to-gop-filibuster/2022/01/19/2f9a734c-792d-11ec-bf97-6eac6f77fba2_story.html

The year-long Democratic push for federal voting rights legislation died in the Senate on Wednesday night, after Republicans blocked an elections bill for the fifth time in six months and Democrats failed to unite their caucus behind a plan to rewrite the Senate’s rules and pass it anyway.

The final clash, which has been brewing since Democrats won congressional majorities a year ago as Republican legislatures in 19 states embarked on a campaign to roll back election access, began with an evening vote to close debate on a sprawling voting rights bill. That vote, at the Senate’s traditional 60-vote margin for legislation, failed on party lines.

Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) then moved to reconsider the legislation to propose a rules change allowing for the bill’s advancement with a simple majority of 51 votes. The Senate rejected that maneuver 52 to 48, with two Democrats, Joe Manchin III (W.Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.), joining all 50 Republicans in opposition.

Democratic senator Joe Manchin cuts ad for West Virginia Republican

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/01/joe-manchin-democrat-ad-west-virginia-republican-david-mckinley-alex-mooney-trump-build-back-better

Joe Manchin has recorded an ad for a Republican in a West Virginia US House election, in which the Democratic senator trumpets his opposition to Joe Biden’s Build Back Better domestic spending plan.

“David McKinley has always opposed reckless spending because it doesn’t make sense for West Virginia,” Manchin said.

Build Back Better was the centrepiece of Biden’s agenda, a $1.75tn package meant to boost health and social care and combat the climate crisis.

Biden needed Manchin’s vote to get it through a Senate split 50-50 and controlled via the vice-president, Kamala Harris.

After lengthy negotiations Manchin sank the plan dramatically, using an interview with Fox News Sunday to say he was a “no”

.

[Carlitos Brigante]

39. Is it uglier than 2 assholes who seem fixated on thrashing and

bad mouthing their own party? And for what, to cozy up to some fascists?

[Emile]

40. Be nice to have real democrats filling those seats!

[RaDaR63]

41. Claire McCaskill wasn't good enough for the party purity types

Josh Hawley filled that seat. We play with fire without caring if we get burned.

[Emile]

42. Claire McCaskill was no Joe Manchin!

Come on. .

[RaDaR63]

43. And, yet, she went under the purity bus

Would you want a Republican to replace Manchin in deep red WV?

[Emile]

44. Again, there is no comparison between Claire and Joe!

[Celerity]

49. Hawley won because Missouri had become a deep red MAGAt infested state.

The only 'purity tests' I see on here are from the 'no progs allowed to go free from attack' types, who spin up these charges to distract and deflect from the actually impactful (not some rando lefty protest vote that changed nothing in terms of any bill passing) disastrous votes and outcomes emanating from the Biden agenda wreckers like Manchin and Sinema. Not just Biden's agenda to be honest, basically the entire rest of our party's agenda.

I can predict with more than a little certainty that some will falsely invent another ex post facto bogus 'purity test' reason if Manchin loses in +40 Red WV.

[Emile]

52. +1