shooter bullied over poverty, appearance, clothing, called gay slurs, was aggressive towards women

[Demovictory9]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10851937/Texas-school-shooter-bullied-clothes-wore-family-poor.html





While the motive for the massacre is not yet known, one neighbor told local news channel Newsy that he witnessed Ramos, who worked at a Wendy's, arguing with his grandmother, claiming he was 'angry that he did not graduate'.

He said the grandmother then screamed: 'He shot me, he shot me', before Ramos 'zoomed down the street' and crashed his car before embarking on his killing spree, which also counted two much-loved teachers, bringing the death toll to at least 21.

According to the Post, the shooting took place the day after his classmates had graduated. State police said his grandmother had died from her injuries.

Meanwhile, his Wendy's co-workers told the Daily Beast that he had an 'aggressive streak' and would send inappropriate messages to female employees. They also branded him 'quiet' and 'anti-social'.

One said: 'He would be very rude towards the girls sometimes, and one of the cooks, threatening them by asking, 'Do you know who I am?'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10851937/Texas-school-shooter-bullied-clothes-wore-family-poor.html

[LeftInTX]

1. I saw those text messages earlier...

I wonder how many people he spammed with messages?

Creepy guy remains me of Richard Ramirez (Aka The Night Stalker)









Hey Abbott! He would have voted for you and Paxton....

[Mike Nelson]

2. Interesting...

... I've seen no similar coverage on TV. I think they don't want to "glorify" the shooter. Still, I think knowing the information in this article is helpful.

[LeftInTX]

3. Yes

[North Shore Chicago]

4. There were warning signs

No intervention equals mayhem and disaster.


NO tots and pears! Let's freaking do something!

[JoanofArgh]

5. WaPo article said he got bullied in

school because he stuttered and lisped. He originally lived with his mother but she was a drug addict and they’d get in constant fights. The fights were so bad the police would be called. So his grand mother had him move in with her.

It was a tradition on graduation day for HS students to visit Robb elementary, walk down a line of students in cap and gown and high five them. I believe this happened the day before.

[Tickle]

6. That could explain

his going there. It’s always after the fact 🤦‍♀️

I’m still heartbroken 💔

[Demsrule86]

31. He went to the elementary school...not the high school with a high powered rifle and mowed

down babies. He was just plain evil and the idea that the poor kid was 'bullied' blah blah...more noise and more excuses. He was just f'ing evil and he lived in Texas so he could get a gun and act on his rage.

[Throck]

7. If he was poor and couldn't afford clothing?

How did he buy the guns?

[raging moderate]

9. Damn straight, and thank you!

I, too, was poor. And I was sometimes bullied over poverty, clothing, and my somewhat ugly face (for a girl). I did not think of shooting anybody. And it was hard to get enough money to buy pens, gloves, and sufficient food.

[Scrivener7]

19. This. It wasn't caused by people being mean to him, it wasn't caused by anything

but the glorification of the gun and the reverse glorification of kids who do this and by a monstrous sense of entitlement that gun owners have. Both in terms of their right to allow this kind of thing to happen every day so they can have their hobby, and in terms of the fact that they think it's ok under circumstances that they define to use their toy to kill people.

[RobinA]

21. Not This

Saying that some people don't turn bad after a godawful upbringing (or whatever) so this kid should have been fine is not an valid argument. Not everybody reacts the same way to stressors. This kid, among many others, acted out in a big way. It's not an excuse, it's a reason. If we don't look at bullying/mental health/trauma as a part of the equation (among many other things) we will never solve this problem. It's not one thing, it's the intersection of many.

[Edim]

22. Agree!

[radicalleft]

34. Thank you!

So often we want to immediately lay blame somewhere or on someone without understanding root causes.

[inthewind21]

56. No, it's not

It's an excuse.

[Scrivener7]

67. We've had 288 school shootings this year. The next most numerous was in Mexico. They had EIGHT.

EIGHT.

Most countries have had ONE.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216725317

Bullying is present in every country in the world.

Godawful upbringings are present in every country in the world.

Stressors are present in every country in the world.

Mental health and trauma are present in every country in the world.

ONLY WE have daily school shootings.

This is not about bullying/mental health/trauma. They are NOT part of the equation.

It's our gun policies. NOTHING ELSE.

[Fla_Democrat]

10. Or at least go with Anderson

or a PSA.

[Demsrule86]

33. He had what the news described as a military like 'long gun'...sound like some sort of . He

of an automatic gun...maybe an AR15...he mowed them down in minutes...and they will be identified with dental records as they are unrecognizabl- basically obliterated. Now we can talk about bullying, mental illness, or whatever. But those sorts of guns have no business in society-military-grade weapons.

[malaise]

60. There are hundreds of millions of poor people across this planet

Who are not murdering senior citizens in supermarkets or little kids in their school o excuses x- stop the guns

[Throck]

61. Poor in America is not the same as poor in other countries.

In the Caribbean I walked in neighborhoods with houses with no windows and no paving on the main roads. God forbid a Hurricane should hit.

[Sancho]

8. People Control, Not Gun Control

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

[kacekwl]

25. That's all well and good but

Nobody, nobody outside of law enforcement should own these killing machines now called long guns. Or extended magazines for that matter.

[Demsrule86]

36. Bullshit...sorry the only way to end this nightmare is to get guns off the streets. I don't

doubt it will take time. But I believe it will happen eventually. There are too many guns out there period...gun control isn't going to work.

[myccrider]

47. And yet the history of gun violence in other countries shows...

that strict control of ACCESS to all guns by people is what reduces gun deaths.

I agree with most of your ideas for controlling how people interact with guns, but I also think some types of firearms should be strictly regulated in order to reduce access by the general public. To be extreme in order to make a point, not everyone is allowed to have a functional mortar or bazooka. In fact, both types of "gun" are strictly regulated. I think we should broaden the list/definition of such "destructive devices"…a lot. Being able to kill 20+ people in a few minutes strikes me as pretty destructive.

But most gun deaths are by suicide or during family arguments. I don’t see either of our ideas hugely reducing those stats. Looking around the world, the most effective reduction of that type of gun violence has been less guns available in the population.

States with the strictest gun-control laws have the least gun deaths and violence, generally. The statistics on gun deaths in the US are definitely undercounts, too, because reporting is voluntary and not all state, county or city government entities report all gun related deaths to Federal agencies.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/20/us/everytown-weak-gun-laws-high-gun-deaths-study/index.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

[Sancho]

51. Having a strict license to have access to guns and ammunition does not preclude restrictions on guns

If there are bans on types of guns that is fine, but it's a different issue. Lots of states have legal permits. I just believe that a very strict permitting/license process would prevent many dangerous people from access to guns of any type.

If there are gun bans, restrictions on various loading magazines, or banned types of bullets; that's fine with me too.

My guess is that if you had a strict license that required training and insurance, even a "legal" possession of a mortar or bazooka would be very costly and difficulty. To use your example...to buy a mortar shell you'd have to produce a current license that authorized you to possess mortar shells. You would have to obtain that license with serious training and pay for a pretty expensive insurance policy. You would need references that you were safe to possess a mortar. You get the idea.

[myccrider]

66. I think we're in basic agreement.

A combo of banning the most destructive weapons that I really want and strict regulation like you suggest of the remaining firearms would reduce the violence, injuries and deaths tremendously.

Unfortunately, the chance of most of these proposals being adopted are pretty small given the current political climate.

Maybe electronic billboards with national and local daily death counts and mass shooting events "advertised" and similar daily news shorts and frequent public service announcements might begin to put some urgency for change into the public consciousness.

[fescuerescue]

65. Actually alot of people have difficulty with getting an ID or license

Especially in poor and african american communities.

It's a huge problem.

That last paragraph simply supports the GOP in their assertions that getting an ID is somehow easy.

[Samrob]

11. I hate bullies. I am 80 and grew up with bullies at all levels in school. I was poor and so were

90% of the kids grew up with. There were fist fights, name calling, lunch thievery, diversity in schools. We never had mass shootings that killed multiple kids and teachers at one time. Some kids had BB guns and shot at rodents and rabbits and such. I lived outside of a major city. The difference is WE DIDN'T HAVE GUNS, WE DIDN'T HAVE ASSAULT WEAPONS, WE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO MAGAZINES OR BULLETS OR PROTECTIVE BODY ARMOR.

[DemUnleashed]

12. Not..

Not excusing this guy in any way for what he did but on a separate issue, do you ever wonder if bullying in school is another more American thing?? I always wondered if kids in other countries get bullied to the extent they do here...in numbers and levels of bullying

I don't know...our country is just getting more and more demented every day! I am crying for these little ELEMENTARY school children!! It is Newtown 2.0 and I am emotionally exhausted!

[Cosmocat]

13. It overwhelming is because of the parents

We know this as parents ourselves, and I know this through my work with schools.

Those parents who both treat their children with kindness and love AND reinforce that they need to treat others the same very rarely bully, most often end up being the ones who get bullied.

Those kids who bully almost always have parents who are bullies themselves or who enable it through victimhood thinking.

All the anti bullying programs in the world can't stop that dynamic.

And, given how we always have been to an extent, but particularly how we have made this hard right turn over the last several decades, it is worse now than ever.

We them good christian patriots!

[DemUnleashed]

14. It...

It saddens me beyond words that kids get bullied so much here! I agree....the life of a bully starts at home!

[dsc]

15. Certainly not exclusively so

both Japan and South Korea are very well known for a bullying culture and have virtually no shootings.

[DemUnleashed]

20. Interesting

I did not realize that Japan and South Korea have a bullying culture. They probably don't have our lax gun laws though and that's why you don't hear about countless mass shootings

[Wednesdays]

55. IIRC, a major plot point in "The Squid Game"

was that the protagonist was bullied in school.

[xmas74]

29. A close friend grew up in Japan.

She was bullied because of something her father did. It's a different kind of bullying but it exists.

[JHB]

35. You may need a refresher reading of Lord of the Flies

Bullying was (maybe still is) a regular feature in British "public" schools (whopich in the US would be called private schools). Bullying has long been part of the unofficial culture, even up to the Harry Potter books. Lord of the Flies was an unflattering g look at that culture set loose with all constraints removed.

[Demsrule86]

38. You are excusing him... he was bullied at high school...so he takes an automatic weapon

and shoots up an elementary school for revenge? Bullshit. I was bullied in school and I had a couple of girl fights (three brothers and being a military brat). I won and that was it. They still didn't like me but they left me alone. What I want to know is after the cops started the chase why wasn't every school on lockdown?

[phylny]

45. I am a former pediatric speech-language pathologist.

One of the things I learned was that many of the men in jail had speech or language impairments growing up. I would always look out for bullying when I worked in public schools. I’m in no way excusing what this thug did.

[betsuni]

16. I just saw a news story about how this sort of thing is caused by teen boys being

sad and hopeless.

WHAT? Like the fantasy that Trump voters are economically sad and hopeless. Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit. EVERYONE is sad and hopeless. IT'S NORMAL, THAT'S LIFE. We normal people don't go out and shoot anybody.

[Demsrule86]

39. Bull shit and more bullshit is exactly right. I want to know how he got that gun and

whether what shitty laws that exist were followed. I want the media to stop calling it a long gun...it was not a fucking rifle but some sort of automatic gun.

[Scrivener7]

17. OK. Know what? I don't give a shit that people were mean to him.

[Demsrule86]

40. I hope he suffered a great deal personally...and I hope there is a God and he is burning for

an eternity in hell.

[Novara]

18. You mean, the MURDERER? Calling him a shooter is too benign. He's a murderer.

Lots of people are bullied and never murder 19 elementary children.

There is NO GODDAMNED GOOD REASON why assault weapons are legal. NONE.

[Roland99]

23. Bullying has pushed many to suicide. And some to homicide

[Demsrule86]

41. Boo hoo...I don't give a crap. He is a murdering scumbag.

[betsuni]

52. Bullying is a HUGE problem in Japan.

Baked into the culture. Does NOT cause people to turn into murderers.

[Demsrule86]

58. That is true.

[AntivaxHunters]

24. From reading all of this & responses....

I can't help but think of how we've heard this same thing before.
Columbine anybody?

Harris & Klebold, the Columbine shooters, almost the same story with being bullied & made fun off. Remember the whole anti-bullying campaign that happened afterwards? I do very much so.

We MUST do something!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

26. We need to stop the bullying narrative. Also Harris & Klebold weren't bullied.

People didn't like them because they were assholes to everyone. If people that were actually bullied shot up schools, we'd see a shit load of transgender kids doing this school shootings. And, guess what? They don't. Because that's not the cause.

Stop victim shaming.

[AntivaxHunters]

27. Bullying is a problem

and so is everything else that goes along with it including the gun laws which allowed this asshole to buy 2 AR's.

Stop thinking 1 dimensionally for a problem that has many pieces.
Trans people are not the same as someone who is indoctrinated online because of 4chan and it's white supremacy.
Apples to oranges. You want an apt comparison, try the Buffalo shooter or Dylan Roof.

"Rachel's Challenge", an anti-bullying program created by Columbine shooting victim's father, starts a 'chain reaction'

[Cuthbert Allgood]

28. It's a problem. It isn't causing school shooters.

Every damn time someone shoots up a school, after we get done with thoughts and prayers, it inevitably turns to bullying and video games/pop culture. Neither of those things cause school shooters. That narrative started in Colorado. It wasn't true then; it isn't true not.

And as to your point, "someone who is indoctrinated online because of 4chan and it's white supremacy" would support my point that it isn't bullying that is causing the shooting.

[AntivaxHunters]

30. It is very much true

and being in Colorado I'm glad that campaign began here from the father of Rachel Scott who was murdered by Klebold & Harris.
Bullying is a problem. And along with it so is everything else. This includes not having single payer healthcare which would ensure everyone has mental health treatment. Right now, 10s of millions of people aren't insured and that's part of the problem too. And so is socio-economic conditions.

And you'd be very wrong in your last paragraph. Trans people are overwhelmingly Liberal. Do you honestly believe that they'd hang out on a website where they're harassed, bullied, and made fun of? C'mon now lol. And what do you think the political makeup exactly is of these white mass shooters? CONSERVATIVE. How many trans people do you think are Conservatives?
Let's be real & honest here, mmmk?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

32. I think you misunderstood my argument.

My point was that if bullying actually DID cause mass school shooters, then it wouldn't be white, male conservatives doing the shooting. The most bullying group is trans students. They aren't shooters. Therefore, bullying isn't the cause of shootings.

And, again, I'm not saying bullying isn't a problem. It is. It isn't the cause of school shootings.

[Demsrule86]

43. The bullying thing is just another right wing bullshit excuse. You can buy a gun now with

no permits...you can buy a military-type gun at 18...or with a criminal record in some states. That is the problem. And I am not in favor of singing kumbayah with the right on this... it is completely their fault, and don't let them bullshit you.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

48. 100% agree.

But it makes people feel better that it's just something like bullying and not a system problem with guns.

And it's victim blaming which is also gross.

[Demsrule86]

53. Sorry I misread your post...I agree 100%. Mea Culpa mea maxima culpa.

[Demsrule86]

59. Any delusion for them I guess.

[Scrivener7]

42. Bullying doesn't have a damn thing to do with this. Check out EarlG's post:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216725317

None of those countries has bullying?

The bullying narrative, and all those other "dimensions" are BULLSHIT.

There is ONE dimension to this. Guns and the fetishization and glorification and widespread availability of guns.

[betsuni]

46. +1

[haele]

37. Some kids are bullied because of being different, others are because they're lower level bullies

And still others think they're being bullied because they're too aggressive seeking attention and are being avoided or ignored by most other kids because they are angry loners who don't see other people as anything but objects.
Saw it when I was growing up, saw it at the kidlet's schools getting her through to graduation, and see it at the grand-kid's schools now.
No matter the explanation - if it's a form of learned sociopathy or PTSD from a parent that checked out, it's still not excusable. He still made a coherent decision he was going to cause as much pain and carnage in a murder spree as he could, because his pride was hurt just one too many times, in his opinion.

He had alternatives if he couldn't graduate. Putting on body armor and murdering a bunch of 2nd and 3rd graders to make a point before he went out in a blaze of glory for his 4chan "fans" was not one of them.

On edit - being an angry loner is not in the DSM V. Nor is being a spoiled brat or privilege seeking ass. If these categories were, half the country could be considered mentally incompetent.

Haele

[Demsrule86]

44. Haele, this is a wonderful post. And you are completely right.

[betsuni]

49. +1

[inthewind21]

57. Well you may have heard it

But it wasn't true. The Columbine boys weren't bullied, they were the bullies.

[sinkingfeeling]

50. I don't give a damn about his life. He should only be remembered as a

cold blooded murderer.

[DBoon]

54. and n case you were wondering whether a strong anti-bullying program would have helped

Anti-bullying programs have been a target of the right wing

https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/10/anti-bullying-programs-are-about-stopping-interpersonal-harassment-not-keeping-kids-from-voicing-conservative-opinions.html

https://www.rightwingwatch.org/report/big-bullies-the-right-wings-anti-anti-bullying-strategies/

[crickets]

64. Well, that's depressing.

Sounds like some parents want their kids to have the right to bully certain other kids they don't approve of. How dare children be taught to respect all of their peers. Then there's the ugly homophobia that hangs over the issue. Ugh.

[Samrob]

62. The shooter is 18. He wasn't bullied by those kids he killed.

Hell, I was bullied and made fun of as a kid. I was over weight, poor, and uncoordinated. Never once did I think about killing anyone. I thought about running away but that would have been around the block and two streets over until the street lights came on.

[ellie]

63. He was poor

but was able to afford guns? What the hell?