Pointing out abortions is NOT slut shaming

[Baltimike]

and acting as if that construct is appropriate plays DIRECTLY into their hands

The hypocrite who exercised her right to choice is not a slut for getting an abortion or several, it's that she wants to make sure other people can't do the same.

POINTING OUT ABORTIONS IS NOT SLUT SHAMING at all

[Jirel]

1. Yep.

This, this, this.

Shame on those who can’t tell the difference between calling out hypocrisy and slut shaming. Methinks that if all they can see is the slut shaming in that, they’re the ones who are guiltily calling the person a slut…

[Willto]

2. I Agree

I see no problem in pointing out the hypocrisy of someone who has had an abortion yet now, when it's politically expedient for them, very vocally opposing any other woman having that same freedom of choice.

[barbaraann]

3. In this case, it might be called hypocrisy shaming. n/t

[sarge43]

45. Exactly n/t

[twodogsbarking]

49. It definitely is. She could just as well have been rich and not a slut.

She still would be a hypocrite.

[pnwmom]

54. Exactly. n/t

[Bettie]

76. That is what it is

hypocrisy shaming.

Because there is nothing wrong or shameful about getting an abortion.

[sop]

4. Correct. No slut shaming in pointing out that a forced birther is a hypocrite.

She'll be shamed by her own anti-abortion constituents.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. Hmm, I'm thinking say "birth forcer"

A woman prevented by force of law from an abortion is a birther (mother) who was forced: a "forced birther".

Boebert wants to prevent abortions by law (not by social engineering because that would mean actually helping people).

Boebert wants to force births, in other people (the hypocrite). She wants to be a forcer (creating the force by voting legislation) and leave the enforcement up to law enforcement officers. She is a "birth forcer" and a "birth enforcer", the latter via proxies.

[sir pball]

42. I've been using "birth slavers" lately to notable effect. nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

79. Good one that. Might use it. . . . nt

[sir pball]

82. Forcing a human to give birth is literal slavery, it's the best term I can think of. nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

83. Women forced to give birth are either slaves or cattle, but "birth herder" doesn't have same ring.nt

[PTWB]

5. Exposing hypocrisy isn't slut shaming.

This is what I wrote in the other thread:

Again, you’re mistaking appropriate shaming of hypocrisy for inappropriate slut shaming. You’re making the mistake of assuming that what you’re seeing is slut shaming and that people are okay with slut shaming because of Boebert’s hypocrisy, when in reality what’s occurring is shaming her for her hypocrisy and slut shaming isn’t a part of this.

We don’t care that she was a sex worker. We don’t care that she had abortions. She’s not being shamed for either of those things.

She’s being shamed for being a vile hypocrite who would forbid others from making the same choices she herself had made.

[gldstwmn]

13. It's not as though one of life's mysteries has been revealed by confirming Republicans are hypocrite

[CrackityJones75]

19. I am going to tell you right now.

I am going to tell you right now. We have trolls here that are attempting to upend anything we get behind. I wouldn’t doubt if they are a bunch of sock puppets masquerading as different accounts. I seriously hope we are watching ip addresses associated with users (although if one isn’t lazy that is easy to get around too).

It has become so transparent here lately it is a joke. And I am not blaming admins or the jury people at all. We are once again under attack just like election night 2016.

[MineralMan]

6. Well, I know about a dozen women who have had abortions.

Should I post their names here? I don't think so. It is OK for a woman to have an abortion. In fact, there is nothing notable about it, and no need to out people who have done so. So, I would never do that, not matter who the woman is. It is a choice, which is why we refer to the the right to have an abortion as a choice.

So, posting that a specific woman has had one is wrong. Period. And, if you tie it to that woman doing sex work, then it is purely slut shaming, making it even worse.

Please don't do that.

When I was a grad student, one of my friends, who was also a grad student, financed her quest for a PhD by working as an "escort" on the weekends. She had one abortion that I know of. She remained my friend, despite those things. She retired not too long ago as the head of her department at a liberal arts college. I would not publicize either thing. Ever.

[Baltimike]

16. Did those women try to prevent others from getting the same? If so, then yes. nt

[inthewind21]

23. You are assuming

That having an abortion is a thing that is kept private. I'm betting you have no clue how many women have been stalked and harassed by the "pro life" crowd over the years. Had to wade through a mob waving bibles in the parking lot to get inside a clinic. Not only for an abortion but to just pick up your birth control or get your annual exam. Had protesters taking down your car plate # to obtain names and addresses to be made public. Had protesters show up at at your home. Have been harassed relentlessly. How many of those things have you been present for or endured? That being said, you are entitled to your opinion. And I thank you for your support. But, we will have to agree to disagree. I'm all about the "privacy" aspect of abortion/women's health. However, the "pro-life" crowd broke with that understanding years ago and created new rules. I will not be bullied into submission by a bunch of hypocrites or expected to treat them with the respect they did not give me or countless other women. So, I'm an perfectly ok with outing them. They changed the rules, they DO NOT get to get all butt hurt when I play by them.

[MineralMan]

60. Maybe it's where I have lived, but I've never known

anyone who was stalked or harassed for having an abortion. For them, it was indeed a private thing. They told me because they trusted me, or because I took them to the clinic. I was a friend. I used to volunteer during protests at clinics to be an escort. Almost every woman I knew used some sort of contraceptive. None of those women were harassed for that, either. I never caused a pregnancy in my entire life. I made that decision at the age of 20.

I'm sure such things as you describe occur, but I have not known of that happening. Again, perhaps it's where I have lived.

My mother taught me, when I was a very young person, that I should not base my behavior on what others do, but on the principles I had learned. Just because some do wrong things does not mean that I should do similar things. "But Johnny does that" was never a valid excuse I could offer my mother. Instead, she taught me to always try to be an example of how a person should behave.

So, if someone mistreats someone else, I will address that person directly and advise against such behavior. I will not copy that behavior or engage in following their example, since that does nothing to prevent others from behaving badly.

I detest Lauren Boebert. Not for being an escort nor for having an abortion. I detest her behavior in attempting to force others to do what she says, rather than what she does. I will condemn her for that, but I will not attack her own supposed behavior to do so. Do I know for a fact that she was an "escort" or had abortions? I do not. I do know what she is trying to turn into laws that punish those who do those things. I oppose her on those grounds. I don't need to call out her other behaviors, since I don't consider either behavior to be a bad thing, necessarily.

I follow my mother's advice in that regard. I will continue to do so.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

81. That doesn't even make any sense. Boebert is a "law maker" and a raging fucking hypocrite.

[Pacifist Patriot]

88. Change the procedure...

If a politician had lasik eye surgery and then sought to outlaw them, wouldn't it be useful information to know that the politician was seeking to prevent people from medical care she/he received?

[BannonsLiver]

7. But won't someone please think of her feelings.

[Celerity]

39. +1

[mobeau69]

8. No different than calling out an anti vaxer who gets a vaccine or one that dies from Covid.

[CrackityJones75]

20. Exactly!

[SergeStorms]

9. Here we go again.

How many times are we going to fight this battle on DU? Enough times so we have identifiable factions that can be called upon at any given moment to do battle?

Give it a rest. All this does is fragment a unified Democratic front, which we need now more than ever.

Just my two cents. Your opinions may vary.

[NNadir]

10. Good point! N/t

[SWBTATTReg]

11. This is a private decision and deserves to remain private. Isn't there any respect for the privacy

of those receiving medical care?

[gldstwmn]

12. Yes and thank you. The Republicans have declared open season on women and outing any woman who

has had an abortion does nothing to further the Dem platform. There is also an element of misogyny to it.

[pnwmom]

55. It is exactly the same as outing anti-vax loudmouths who secretly get vaccinated.

It isn't about sexism. It's about hypocrisy.

[Baltimike]

14. Not if they're trying to prevent others from getting the same care. nt

[wryter2000]

17. Not if they're denying the same care to others

This is pointing out their cruel hypocrisy.

[inthewind21]

26. I think it's funny

You think it's still (or ever was) private. Guess you missed all those protests where protesters published names of those going into a clinic. Or hey, How about the Texas law? You totally miss the part where it PAYS citizens to seek out this info, make it public then sue? But hey, keep it polite. Maybe by next election we can just put all women on breeding farms and have them monitored 24-7/365. But hey, at least we stayed "polite".

[gldstwmn]

57. The reasons you cite are exactly the reasons

we should not do this. We are not that.

[sarisataka]

15. When was the last time a male was outed

For having a prescription for ED medication?

Or if it's only about hypocrisy, as you claim, the medical record if a male politician supposedly in a monogamous relationship treated for an STD?

Hypocrisy shaming and slut shaming is not an either/or choice

[Whiskeytide]

22. What if that male was presently a member of the US ...

… Congress and was engaged in a crusade to make viagra and similar drugs illegal, and was further ridiculing men who take ED drugs as not manly and impotent - therefore deserving of contempt and scorn?

If a woman who wields power is painting scarlet As on the shirts of other women, while simultaneously engaging in adulterous affairs herself, is that not worthy of revelation? Is it slut shaming to point that out?

This is a tough question, and I think we have to handle it respectfully and carefully. But Boebert’s level of hypocrisy is pretty bad in this case. It would seem to bear pretty directly on her fitness for office.

[sarisataka]

38. I do get the nuances

And what people think they are doing, but using a woman's medical history to shame hypocrisy cannot be separated from the implication that what they did was shameful.

Also if we stand for a woman's right to privacy (the basis of Roe v Wade) but then make carveouts to that right justified by hypocrisy. Does that not make us hypocrites?

She provides enough other reasons to criticize her; we don't need to go down this road.

[inthewind21]

28. Seriously

Viagra vs Abortion. Yeah I see how they are just alike.

[sarisataka]

40. I see that

You cannot see. You are not alone.

[emulatorloo]

30. See Larry Craig, a homophobic GOP Congressman who was arrested for soliciting oral sex in an

Denver airport restroom. His anti-gay public statements and actions were hatefilled and egregious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal

Rules for thee, but not for me. It is the hypocrisy.

That is a more analogous situation to the Boebert accusations. She shames women who seek abortions and aims to control other women’s bodies.

[sarisataka]

46. It was the St Paul-Mpls airport

I remember it well.

In his case the action was a crime committed in a public area. There is no right to privacy for criminal conviction, in most cases. Abortion records are not public.

Counter question- was the homophobia directed at Mr. Craig justified because of his hypocritical stance?

[emulatorloo]

48. Thanks for the correction.

‘Homophobia directed at Larry Craig’. Sorry don’t recall that.

He and he alone was the one in political power and was totally responsible for his hateful positions.

I admire your wish to defend him, but his political positions and hypocrisy are indefensible.

Take care

[sarisataka]

51. Not at DU

Since that incident pre-dated DU. But the question remains.

We can use DU's history with Lindsey Graham if you prefer. Is it OK to use homophobic terminology and slurs because he is a hypocrite?

[emulatorloo]

53. I have no idea what Lindsay Graham's sexual preference is and I don't like homophobic slurs against

him or anyone else.

I don’t care about anyone’s sexual preference, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth I didn’t say and don’t believe.

That little bad faith rhetorical trick doesn’t work on me. I suggest you self-delete.

Take care.

[sarisataka]

59. Never put any words in your mouth

So please do not put any in mine.

I asked a question on your opinion about hypocrisy and if terminology can be justified on that basis. You answered. That is all.

[emulatorloo]

61. It felt like a feeble attempt to 'trap' me. You know nothing about me

Have a nice day

[sarisataka]

62. Nor you I

Hope your day is well also

[emulatorloo]

63. ...

[druidity33]

85. DU was around long before the "Craig Incident"... nt.

[pnwmom]

56. Anti-vax men have been outed for being vaccinated. That's a comparable situation.

And Madison Cawthorne was outed for sexual behavior at odds with his public statements.

[sarisataka]

64. That is an analogous situation

Though I would pose that an abortion is a more personal matter than a vaccination.

I do not like the idea of a woman's abortion history used as a weapon by those who support a woman's right to choose.

When combined with the salacious implications that her abortions were related to her supposedly being a sex worker I cannot see how anyone can miss the slut-shaming of the accusations.

[pnwmom]

70. Isn't this comparable to Cawthorne's sexual activities outing by the same Muckraker group? n/t

[sarisataka]

74. It is more comparable

However there were public accusations of sexual misconduct.

I would say the accusations of being an unlicensed sex worker, when being licensed would have been legal, are fairly comparable.

The extension of that into the possible pregnancies/ abortions carries it farther. I have seen some posts asking why didn't she use protection. We are now making assumptions on top of assumptions (still no judgment?) but more importantly, would we every ask that question of Jane Doe?

[pnwmom]

75. I agree that it is nobody's business why anyone doesn't use protection.

But if she did have abortions, I think that's relevant to her very public anti-abortion stance.

[sarisataka]

77. I agree it is relevant

What I do not know is a better way to have gone about it.

Perhaps we must swallow the bitter pill that a hypocrite may not get called out so women can feel comfortable their records are secure.

OTH at this point we do not know the source of the information so medical privacy may be a non-issue.

[pnwmom]

78. What I read is that this was not from medical records, so HIPAA wasn't involved.

And there are other sources I can think of . . . for example, anybody she contacted for help at the time.

[gldstwmn]

58. +1000

[joshcryer]

68. ED meds are over the counter in most countries.

Like plan B is in most countries.

No one would care if someone was "outed for ED meds."

As far as the other stuff she did, being a sugar baby, having abortions, it's not shaming to point out the hypocrisy. One can be for sex workers and be against a past sex worker who hid it and who is against sex workers now. Likewise one can be for choice and against someone who had an abortion but is against it now.

[IronLionZion]

71. Madison Cawthorn was outed recently

Gay Republican men have been outed for being gay, using drugs, paying prostitutes, preying on young congressional pages, etc.

In Trump's case his Stormy Daniels payoff was outed but evangelicals were fine with it.

[PTWB]

73. There would be no issue with shaming a male politician

Who took ED medication while advocating for ED medication to be banned. It wouldn’t be “slut shaming” to call attention to his hypocrisy just as it isn’t “slut shaming” to call attention to Boebert’s hypocrisy.

She’s not being shamed for having abortions or for being a former sex worker. She’s being shamed for being a vile hypocrite who would deny women the ability to make the same choices she’s made herself.

It has nothing to do with slut shaming and is disingenuous to suggest it does.

[AngryOldDem]

18. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

It’s the “rules for thee but not for me” attitude. If anything, she should be open to the reasons why women have abortions, be empathetic to their situations, and understand why that option needs to be available.

She’s just parroting the GOP bullshit, like a good ‘lil GOPer.

I don’t give a shit what she’s done in her past, nor do I judge her for her actions. But I do care that she wants to deny other women a right that she was free to use, and did use, herself.

[dalton99a]

21. "Abortion is a grave evil"

https://boebert.house.gov/issues/pro-life-and-family-values
Pro-Life and Family Values

[Quixote1818]

24. It blows my mind that some here don't think hypocrisy should be called out

I'm absolutely dumbfounded.

[dalton99a]

25. +1. We are supposed to say nothing at all?

FUCK THAT SHIT

[Celerity]

52. +100. This wilful unilateral disarmament under some contrived doctrine of no criticism ever for some

hypocritical actions if they involve an artificially proscribed set of scared cows will be the death of our party (and thus the nation) politically.

America is NOT a political battle theatre where you can engage in hyper sensitively derived self-censorship (to the point we simply say and/or do nothing if the hypocrisy deals with certain subjects) and have any hope of carrying the day.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded.

You are far from the only one.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

27. Weaponizing things like this is a shit move. And weaponizing things like abortion and sex work is a

great way to keep women and other marginazlied people out of politics.

[Baltimike]

29. Oh good grief. They don't get to claim the Holy High Ground while they're

standing on a heap of bullshit. As Truman once said, "Sometimes, you have to tell the truth about those bastards"

If she had abortions and then stood on a platform to try and usurp that right from others, "tell the truth about those bastards" If Graham votes against LGBTQIA+ rights while participating. "sometimes you have to tell the truth about those bastards"

Now, had either NOT voted against other people enjoying the same rights as them, I'd be dead set against it. But since it's the opposite, "Sometimes, you just have to tell the truth about those bastards"

[inthewind21]

31. You're about 49 years

Late to the party. It was weaponized by the right within a week after Roe V Wade. But keep playing nice. It's worked so well thus far.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. Lol that I'm playing nice. She's a fucking fascist, but apparently that's not enough.

[inthewind21]

35. No it's not

Clearly. She hold a seat in congress.

[emulatorloo]

41. I understand you are a self-styled iconoclast, but you're essentially protecting these egregious

asshole hypocrites who want to take away women’s right to bodily autonomy.

I get that you mean well, but don’t be so suprised you are getting pushback because many feel your are missing the point. She wants to CONTROL women.

No DU’ers are slut shamers. They point out hypocrites

[Quixote1818]

43. By not calling out hypocrisy you are endorsing it. It's really that simple. nt

[gldstwmn]

65. +1000

[PatSeg]

34. I call it hypocrite-shaming

So easy to do with republicans.

[Celerity]

36. agree nt

[LeftInTX]

37. We don't even know if this is a fact. That's the issue for me.

Screenshots of random text messages with names redacted..

Heck hubby and I could do that at home...

[emulatorloo]

47. Yes sounds like it may be baseless. But I still think it is a useful discussion as to whether DU

should hold Republican hypocrites responsible or defend them.

[barbtries]

44. if you're talking about boebert,

it's hypocrisy shaming.
being a paid escort might call for some slut shaming, but even that from my perspective, it's about the hypocrisy. this woman is no saint but she pretends to be. so fuck her.

i'm no saint either and i don't pretend to be, nor do i pretend to care about "unborn children" when that position is taken only to control women. she's clearly had control over her own body during her lifetime so there's no excuse if she wants to deny other women of that same freedom.

[vlyons]

66. Yes pointing out abortions IS SO slut shaming

and none of your business.

[MineralMan]

67. Plus, we don't actually know that she ever had an abortion.

We have an unsupported claim of that, and that's all. How would anyone even know that? What was the source of that "information?"

The whole thing could be incorrect, actually. We jump on things too quickly that we hope are true. Cognitive errors.

[SoonerPride]

84. Is it ok to point out that trump PAID for abortions?

Or is that also slut shaming?

[vlyons]

86. is it any of you business?

To say that someone paid for an abortion is to imply that there is something shameful about getting one.

[JI7]

87. Nope, it's pointed out in the case of Republicans because they want to BAN Abortion rights for

others .

[SoonerPride]

89. Exactly.

How anyone can see this point boggles my mind.

[calimary]

69. Agreed. It IS hypocrite-shaming, though.

If YOU had one and then try to make sure nobody else can, seems to me that’s the definition of hypocrisy.

[IronLionZion]

72. Pointing out hypocrisy is fine

Bobo is a POS because of her policy positions and generally idiotic behavior. So pointing out how she wants to deny others the choices that she made is shaming her for hypocrisy.

Trump paid off porn stars and his evangelical supporters are OK with it. He screwed over small business contract workers his whole life and hard working salt of the earth Americans are OK with it.

[AntiFascist]

80. Completely agree! And why are some people deadset on vilifying those who call out hypocrites?

It doesn't make any sense!