General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSC just ended separation of church and state.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/21/politics/supreme-court-religious-schools/index.htmlBut hey, Hillary would not have been a PERFECT candidate so we will bash her nonstop
The Supreme Court said Tuesday that Maine cannot exclude religious schools from a tuition assistance program that allows parents to use vouchers to send their children to public or private schools.
The 6-3 ruling is the latest move by the conservative court to expand religious liberty rights and bring more religion into public life, a trend bolstered by the addition of three of former President Donald Trumps nominees.
That scumbag got 3 completely unqualified liars on the SC...But hey, she would not have been perfect so we had to WHINE about her and say "hold my nose" and vote
Hassler
(3,395 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)And I blame these disgusting fascists but also I blame a certain group on the left.
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,838 posts)AMEN!!!!
Bettie
(16,139 posts)because if there is, yeah, we'll be back to segregation by the end of next year.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)rule in favor of private schools.
TheBlackAdder
(28,242 posts).
Give them remote access so they can telecommute 3 days a week, so busing is on Tues & Thurs.
Or jam the families and school M-W-F and telecommute on Tues &Thurs. This way they don't get extended weekends.
.
edhopper
(33,651 posts)We will soon have the Christian equivalent of Islamic Madrases.
SouthernDem4ever
(6,617 posts)do they get funding too? Does the SC specify what type of religion?
edhopper
(33,651 posts)But somehow I feel the Red Xian States will find a way not to give it to them.
czarjak
(11,316 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)(above remark is from a friend of mine on another board)
There is a REASON the 3 patriotic SC justices voted the other way. Note EVERY PERSON on this board MAKING EXCUSES for these FUCKING RIGHTWING TRAITOR JUSTICES
Lovie777
(12,390 posts)but initially it opens the door to any religion, not just Christian, which will be a total mess, just like abortion ban.
Right now it's Maine. If these religious schools charge tutition, many residence who pay taxes ain't gonna appreciate this decision.
The US SC 6 assholes GQP has caused it's expansion.
Novara
(5,866 posts)...DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?!?!?!?
For fuck's sake! You people are supposed to UNDERSTAND THE CONSTITUTION.
These motherfuckers are re-writing the Constitution by fiat.
Evolve Dammit
(16,803 posts)C_U_L8R
(45,031 posts)Emile
(23,107 posts)SouthernDem4ever
(6,617 posts)the SC is protecting everyone's religious rights. MORONS!
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)unless they are white supremacists.
This is the new America...the one we were guaranteed to get back in 2016 when a whole bunch on the left could not stop bashing Hillary.
neoconn
(185 posts)What happened to separation of church and state? That is so fundamental to this conversation. Its clear the rules are slowly drifting toward BIG guv subsidizing religious activities. (Not sure how "Fundamentalist's" agree with this but you gotta fight fire with fire.
Islamic schools and other rites of indoctrination have to take advantage. That will cause them to slow their roll.. Heck .. Atheist school? Would love to see their face with that in play...
Fullduplexxx
(7,876 posts)gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)difficult.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)ONE
HUNDRED
MILLION
who saw NO REASON to vote in 2020, wake the fuck up!
Think about that number, they saw NO PROBLEMS worth their time to vote.
You and I, we here cant make them vote. If they decide not to participate, white supremacists fascist killers take over.
dwayneb
(773 posts)I've been screaming this for years. What do we have to do to wake them up? Billboards? Protests? Riots?
I used to think that SURELY one day these fools would wake up to the reality that their apathy was going to lead to a ring in their nose.
But as we get closer and closer to the elections of 2022 and 2024 I'm not seeing it.
PXR-5
(522 posts)Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)Haggard Celine
(16,864 posts)If the state is giving parents vouchers to pay for their children's schools, they should be able to take those vouchers to the school of their choice.
I would think, however, that the state would have standards for the schools they fund. I've read articles about some of these religious schools who basically do nothing but have the kids study the Bible.
A school like that should not be allowed to participate in a voucher program.
Around here, some of the best schools are the Catholic schools. They have rather high academic standards and their graduates are generally well-educated. I don't have a problem with people taking vouchers to those schools. But if you're going to have a voucher program, you also need some sort of accreditation for schools to meet.
rockfordfile
(8,709 posts)Haggard Celine
(16,864 posts)we really can't stop it. They'll eventually grow up and make up their own minds about all of it, just like I did. The state should be concerned with making sure the kids are getting a quality education. They'll also be taught things that are important to that religion, but I don't think the state should be concerned with that.
SouthernDem4ever
(6,617 posts)Not me.
Skittles
(153,261 posts)but it should NOT be funded with taxes
Dr. Strange
(25,928 posts)Use the money to build public schools for these kids instead of sending them off to private schools.
Haggard Celine
(16,864 posts)Public money is there to be shared in common, not to doled out to different private entities. Sometimes, though, an unusual solution has to be applied.
Some school districts are horrible. There's crime and corruption and it seems like nothing can ever be done about the bad schools or police department or whatever.
In a way, voucher programs are intended to help the smart kids who can't get an education at the out-of-control public school. Something has to be done in some circumstances to help the talented kids.
This sort of solution should not be the norm, however. Public schools should be supported in the biggest number of times. There have to be creative solutions in some cases. Just a fact of life.
Dr. Strange
(25,928 posts)That might be the (hopefully rare) situation, in which case, we're kinda stuck with rulings like this.
James48
(4,444 posts)Here in Michigan we have sone Catholic schools, but we also have whacko fundamentalist schools that teach that men rode dinosaurs. Seriously.
Private religious schools are not required to meet state public school standards, do not disclose their funding streams, have no oversight.
Lonestarblue
(10,138 posts)They also established the right of an extremist religious school that discriminates against LGBTQ to be funded by taxpayers. This school refuses to accept LGBTQ students, refuses to hire LGBTQ teachers, and refuses even to admit heterosexual students of same-sex parents. They have now been authorized by the SC to continue their hate and indoctrination of what should be public school students who will now be forced to have lessons on hate. Nothing has been written about the school leaders attitudes toward abortion, but I can imagine that students will be brainwashed into believing that life begins with even the thought of having sex, that sex is a perversion before marriage, that women are nothing more than chattel who must obey every whim of their husbands, and that a woman should accept any man who offers to marry her, no matter how disgusting or cruel he is. It is their Gods will that women must suffer through eternity for the sins of Eve. No taxpayer dollars should ever go to religious schools.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,398 posts)uponit7771
(90,370 posts)... which of course the MAGA SCJ didn't think would make a fuss over funding ... OR... like Eastman said they'd just not take those cases and rule over them.
Buncha hacks at the USSC
NickB79
(19,283 posts)The pearl clutching will be epic.
"My tax dollars are funding MUSLIMS!!!"
Or almost as good, tell some Evangelicals that their tax dollars fund Catholic schools 🤣
Lovie777
(12,390 posts)That should be fun.
badhair77
(4,226 posts)whatever that may be. Plus these people arent always inclusive.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)hearings.
NutmegYankee
(16,204 posts)The argument could be quickly raised that this ruling means government funding of a madrassa. The righties will go ape-shit and switch back to public provided schools, which frankly Maine should do.
Shermann
(7,472 posts)Generic Brad
(14,276 posts)If the rules apply to everyone, then everyone should actively participate.
xocetaceans
(3,874 posts)Zeitghost
(3,892 posts)I don't see an establishment clause issue. I think they got it right on this one.
Voucher programs have pros and cons, but that's not what this ruling really deals with. If you're going to have a voucher system, any accredited school that meets state, local and federal guidelines should be eligible.
Haggard Celine
(16,864 posts)I understand why they were created, though. Some public school districts are terrible, and effort has been made to make them better, but no amount of money or attention seems to get them to improve. In general, though, I don't think they're needed. Most public school districts are at least decent, and money should not be taken away from those districts just because some parents can have an easier time paying for private school tuition. If they want to send their kids to private school, it should be on their dime, generally speaking.
Aristus
(66,509 posts)Sorry the most qualified Presidential candidate in American history didn't live up to your astronomical standards.
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Yankee Oscar Uniform!
progressoid
(50,011 posts)sadly we don't elect people based on "most qualified."
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)candidate to run for President.
An argument can be made that on the issues Bernie was more progressive, but if you give him that, he is the only one.
And yet, she was treated like some rightwinger. Disgusting.
betsuni
(25,759 posts)Used to be that it only came from the right-wing, then they had a lot of help. Shameful. And now everyone says "Hillary was right about everything."
Why did so many people believe obvious propaganda about her, why the lust to viciously hate a life-long do-gooder Methodist who remembers everyone's birthdays and picks up the phone and gets things done?
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)you some bullshit they heard about her, that isnt true of course.
They are reading this now. The ONLY reason they arent STILL BASHING her is they fear repercussion, but I see them on the internet where they are free to say what they want and they still hate her.
betsuni
(25,759 posts)thinks about money and is worse than the worst Republican according to them, isn't sailing around the world on one of her several luxury yachts wearing furs and jewels enjoying caviar and champagne with fellow oligarch buddies, cackling about destroying the American working class and starting world wars, or fondling her Imelda Marcos-expensive shoe collection in one of her dozen luxury houses right now.
Where's the yachts and houses and all the oligarch corporatist establishment coastal elite stuff? Where's all that money that supposedly corrupted her? Why is everybody saying "Hillary was right all along" now? Why is she still, as she always has been, a liberal? I'd like an explanation for why so many people were convinced she was corrupt. Because some guy said so? People are idiots.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)betsuni
(25,759 posts)We're assured millions of times that Democrats are both sides neoliberals instantly corrupted by a campaign contribution. Why not a lobbyist? Nina Turner was a lobbyist. Somehow this was perfectly fine, no problem, lobbyist okay. Where are the Obama's yachts and luxury houses and establishment neoliberal loot? Now that I'm on the topic. Throughout the Obama administration it was Obama-drones-Obama-drones-Obama-drones. Why did concern about drones disappear?
Also, Obama gave a speech at Goldman Sachs. Disappointed the conspiracy theorists were too lazy to make a big deal out of it. A Hillary speech is more potentially diabolical? I really want an explanation for all of that bullshit. Prove the constant accusation that Democrats are corrupt. Enough is enough.
betsuni
(25,759 posts)Goldman Sachs, evil cartoon Hillary and The Establishment are plotting to take over the world! Conspiracy! How dare a former First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State get paid for her time, the going rate for a speech. WALL STREET DIABOLICAL BAD WALL STREET!
"It must be a fantastic speech, a brilliant speech which you would want to share with the American people. It must be Shakespearean!"
Ironic that people are mentioning the assault rifle ban included in the 1994 crime bill like it was a good thing when the bill has been used to hammer Democrats like Hillary and Joe Biden as racists wanting to put everyone in jail.
kelly1mm
(4,735 posts)is no establishment clause violation. The USSC got this one right I believe. A state does not have to provide funding for private k-12 education at all. If it does it cannot discriminate against religious schools. If you don't like it then have your state end its voucher programs in toto.
Dorian Gray
(13,517 posts)and I'm not quite getting the anger at this one. If a state offers private school vouchers, they can not discriminate based upon religion or other ideology. They would have to be used for schools of any ideology. Or they need to rid themselves of the vouchers.
Tree Lady
(11,527 posts)The churches.
Evolve Dammit
(16,803 posts)cloudboy07
(351 posts)get so tired of a government that me & my buddy's fought for ! what a fucking waste!
dwayneb
(773 posts)This is what makes me physically sick. To watch these scumbag Fascists piss on the graves of all the men and women that fought and died to protect our freedoms and our Constitution.
Do you think they will simply bulldoze Arlington when they take over in 2024? That would be better in a way that some disgusting lying faux goose-stepping past all those white crosses.
cloudboy07
(351 posts)V.N. we were disgraced & now we disgraced by a damn draft dodger ! As sucker's & loser's ! treason rate's as a hanging offense ! Drafter dodger said that he would take care of our girl friends for us ! read that 1967 star's & stripe's in V.N. ! no joke !
barbtries
(28,817 posts)taxation without representation. I should not be asked to FUND assholes who brainwash children and teach them bullshit.
ETA: Expand the Court! the country is being victimized by these assholes.
AdamGG
(1,297 posts)But, above all they're just fucking hypocrites and they just want things their way, however they get it.
So, now the SCOTUS is telling a state that they HAVE TO fund religious education, and the opinion of the locally elected state government just doesn't matter. I hope they just trash the voucher program altogether, rather than being forced to give public money to religion.
Midnight Writer
(21,830 posts)"he didn't go far enough".
Shit like this burns my bacon.
They realize, of course, that the alternative to Biden (TFG) said "What's the point of having all these nukes if we don't use them?"
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)betsuni
(25,759 posts)roamer65
(36,748 posts)Period.
Response to roamer65 (Reply #49)
AdamGG This message was self-deleted by its author.
appmanga
(590 posts)...but that's the judicial branch of the American Taliban.
Tarc
(10,478 posts)and getting the money to non-bible thumper parents in a different manner.
Endaround.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)and before you know it, Christianity is the official religion of America.
burrowowl
(17,654 posts)onethatcares
(16,204 posts)it's only logical. But, who ever said there was anything logical about religion.
Zeitghost
(3,892 posts)We tax organizations/businesses on net profit, something a non-profit does not have.
onethatcares
(16,204 posts)it's all profit. Or am I missing something here?
Zeitghost
(3,892 posts)A business has a motive to turn a net profit, which is to return that profit to the owners. Non-profits like churches don't have that motive as there is nobody that can financially benefit from it. Churches save excess money for long term projects and stability, but they don't issue dividends to owners.
If you tax them, excess income will simply be spent instead of saved to avoid the tax bill. They will use it to fund more missionaries, build and improve buildings, pad clergy salaries, or simply just return it back to the membership who donated it.
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,002 posts)you can't, then, eliminate religious schools.
And this was for a very limited situation.
Would I be more happy if they said no vouchers? Of course. But it IS unconstitutional to say some private organizations are OK but religious ones never are for receiving public funds like this.
frogmarch
(12,160 posts)SYFROYH
(34,185 posts)they couldnt use the funding for teaching religion. Is that prohibition gone?
Sympthsical
(9,167 posts)And that was the problem with the system in front of the Court.
You can't say, "Pick any private school you want. If the private school has a religious association, you can't pick that one." It's pretty open discrimination against an institution for its religious affiliation.
If the vouchers only applied to other public schools, this would not have been in front of the Court.
If people hate the idea of a religious school getting these vouchers, end the voucher program applicability to private schools.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,123 posts)Separation of church and state means the state cannot further or hinder religion. Specifically, as to schools, for decades it has been interpreted to mean that once the school opens it's doors to private activity, it cannot open it doors only to secular activities. In this instance, the activity is giving vouchers to allow parents to use public money for private schools. Once it has made that decision, it cannot prohibit them from choosing a particular school merely because it is religious.
I don't t think public money should be going to private schools, period. But that ship has apparently sailed, making this decision entirely predictable.
Is no one aware of bussing to Catholic schools, textbooks paid for in religious schools, state scholarships which can be
used in religious schools, to name a few very old uses of public money to fund education in a private religious school.
RANDYWILDMAN
(2,678 posts)keep it simple please.
This is a slope but does it go both ways , cause it if does not then it is a piece of crap decision !
Do private schools now have to make accommodations for students with IEP's and special education programs and do they have to share their financial endowments with students who flow back to a public school ???