"Abortion is, in many ways, too big to fail." Texas may make it illegal to travel for abortion

[Demovictory9]

To really reduce abortion, these red states have to stop abortion pills through the mail AND stop women from traveling for abortion. Women are going to be shocked at the new laws that will be put on their freedom.
-----------------------------------------

With the end of Roe, Texans will have to travel long distances for legal abortions
New Mexico is expected to become a “haven state” where abortion remains legal and largely accessible. That state has six abortion clinics and is gearing up for an influx of patients. The nearest clinic there is a 12-hour drive from Houston and a 10-hour drive from Dallas.

----------------------------------

Texas has already gotten a window into what’s to come; the state has been operating under one of the nation’s most restrictive abortion bans since Sept. 1.

Data gleaned from the early months under Texas’ existing abortion restrictions, as well as from countries that have banned abortion, show that many, though not all, pregnant patients seeking abortions will find ways to terminate their pregnancies.

“It has always been the case that people find ways to end pregnancies when they need to do so, and we’re so fortunate now that the methods are safer than they’ve ever been in human history,” said Farah Diaz-Tello, senior counsel with reproductive legal advocacy group If/When/How. “Abortion is, in many ways, too big to fail.”

But Diaz-Tello and other advocates warn that inequality of abortion access will only be exacerbated by these wholesale bans. And notably, some Texas lawmakers have signaled a desire to push legislation that would make it illegal for people to travel out of state to get the procedure.

-----------

AidAccess, an international nonprofit, provides Texans with the medication through the mail, despite state laws that prohibit them from doing so. While the federal government has made efforts to crack down on AidAccess, they continue to operate openly.

Demand for abortion-inducing medication surges in the wake of increased restrictions, according to University of Texas researcher Abigail Aiken. After Texas passed its law banning abortions after about six weeks of pregnancy, Aiken found that requests to AidAccess increased by more than 1000%.

“And of course, this time, it will not just be Texas,” Aiken said. “When we have these geographical blocks of the country that are basically abortion ban zones, that’s going to increase the need for self-management.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/23/supreme-court-abortion-roe-dobbs-texas/

[C_U_L8R]

1. How long will it take for magats to figure out

that they just paved the way to forced vaccinations. That ought to make their heads spin.

[Irish_Dem]

13. Anything good will be made illegal. Anything bad will be mandatory.

Easy system to remember.

[mitch96]

24. Sounds like Geo Orwell's 1984 double speak. nt

[Irish_Dem]

28. He had the gift of prophecy.

[dalton99a]

27. +1

[Cosmocat]

36. IDK

They are not operating from an actual respect for precedent, they are just making up the rules as they go along, including judicially.

They will find the rationalization that over rules the precedent they used to justify this.

[NullTuples]

52. Even if they have to go back hundreds of years to another culture to do so.

[KarenS]

2. Can they really restrict a woman's travel??

The thought of it hurts my head and stretches my imagination to the limit.

Can they really??

[FarPoint]

5. I imagine...

Maybe charges could be presented IF the male sperm donor of the aborted egg filed suit....Just speculating...it's all about control, fear stuff...intimidation...

[mitch96]

25. Right? How are they gonna know if you are just going on a "vacation" for a day?..nt

[wryter2000]

43. I don't see how

Interstate commerce is the province of the federal government. If they try, they’ll lose in court.

[NullTuples]

53. You seem to be assuming the SCOTUS cares about consistency...

[ZonkerHarris]

78. The Supreme Court? ehhhhh.....

[Woodswalker]

3. Their women may

Be required to take pregnancy tests whenever leaving and re-entering the state.

[Demovictory9]

4. I am imagining troopers pulling over cars at the border

"maam...why are you leaving Texas?" "when was your last period"?

[csziggy]

73. "Ma'am, pe on this stick for us."

That would go over well.

[LiberalFighter]

75. I wonder if women will consider it a threat

And shoot first and ask questions later?

Maybe there will be caravans transporting women.

[Sugarcoated]

59. How would that be enforced?

[doc03]

6. This country may become like the USSR where you had to get

government permission in advance to travel out of state or to another city.

[Demsrule86]

10. There are federal laws that prohibit this and Justice is already working on it.

[lindysalsagal]

7. I'd like to see the state go broke trying to wall off their borders: 1300 miles w mexico, 400 ocean

shoreline, and at least double that with the states of New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana and Arkansas.

Let's see them devote all their resources to controlling pregnant women at all of their borders.

You know? I would sign up for a week of border crossings just to overload their moronic resources.

We could divvy up the dissolved bankrupt state into the nearby states and be effing done with texas!

[jmowreader]

66. Three of those jurisdictions have banned or will ban abortion

As of right now, Mexico isn't a good choice - you've got to drive quite a way once you've crossed the border to get to a Mexican state where it's legal. New Mexico seems to be the obvious choice - it's legal and that won't change.

Plus, there are A LOT of minor roads connecting the two states that the Abortion Police won't be able to get to.

[Oneironaut]

8. There are going to be police checkpoints.

Texas is essentially on its way to becoming a Christo-Fascist police state. I’m worried that the rest of the country is next, or, at least half of it.

[Demsrule86]

11. They may try but I doubt it...in any case it won't work.

[ck4829]

18. How many points is a police anti-womenfolk checkpoint worth?

Now I'm not suggesting anything - just how many points?

I mean, they are the ones who are suggesting things...

https://slate.com/business/2021/04/drivers-hit-protesters-laws-florida-oklahoma-republicans.html

[CentralMass]

33. My thoughts wandered in that direction as well. I can't imagine one of my daughters being

Kept from traveling for any reason.

[sir pball]

45. Shoot, just have someone with an AR-15 escort them.

As shown in Uvalde, the police won't bother you in that case.

I'm only half-joking…

[Sugarcoated]

60. On every road on the Texas border?

What?

[Bettie]

9. So, what?

Will they ban travel outside the state for any female citizen of the state who might be between 8 and 60? Have every inch of the border covered with checkpoints to force every woman who wants to leave to pee on a stick so that they can decide who gets to travel and who doesn't?

This will keep women from getting prenatal care, this will keep women from getting miscarriage care...it will kill women, which might be their ultimate goal.

What the fuck is wrong with these people....rhetorical, I know it is too much to list.

[Demsrule86]

12. Of course they can't do that.

[rainin]

22. They can and they will. You assume they care if they're violating your rights.

How do you think cases get to the supreme court in the first place? Somebody's rights had to be violated first. Probably, a buttload of somebodies. Then, eventually, a case makes it way up the courts until the supreme court gets to decide that we don't have these rights we thought we had.

[Demovictory9]

14. I always point to Ireland (before abortion was legalized) as an example of travel tactics

Ireland anti choicers rode the ferries from Ireland to England harassing young women. i imagine the same happening at Texas airports

[kskiska]

44. There was a ship off Ireland in international waters

that provided abortions.

[multigraincracker]

15. Interstate commerce law.

interstate commerce, in U.S. constitutional law, any commercial transactions or traffic that cross state boundaries or that involve more than one state. The traditional concept that the free flow of commerce between states should not be impeded has been used to effect a wide range of regulations, both federal and state. A further extension of the established notion regarding the free flow of trade was introduced when Title II of the 1964 Civil Rights Act—dealing with discriminatory practices in public accommodations—was upheld by the Supreme Court. The court decided that a business, although operating within a single state, could affect interstate commerce with its restrictive laws and was, therefore, at odds with the federal legislation that proved to be enabling of the Constitution’s commerce clause.

[Irish_Dem]

16. Part of the GOP intent is to harass, bully, humiliate women.

So yes young women will now be harassed when they travel.

[WinstonSmith4740]

17. Still waiting.

As I'm sure we all are, for one of those cretins who write these garbage bills to explain just how they're going to enforce the law banning women from traveling out of state for her health care service. Just how do I prove I'm not pregnant when I leave Texas for an weekend with the girls in Vegas? And if I was pregnant when I left, how do I prove I still am when I get back?

I think it's safe to assume that even though it could be done with a simple urine test, (Intrusive? Yep...ask any stoner who has to deal with that bulllshit) Texas will decide testing all women in their child bearing years IS the way to go on this, and will find a way to make the test as hideous and degrading as possible.

[Novara]

19. The modern Fugitive Slave Act

Read it and tell me this is much different.

snip..........

Passed on September 18, 1850 by Congress, The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 was part of the Compromise of 1850. The act required that slaves be returned to their owners, even if they were in a free state. The act also made the federal government responsible for finding, returning, and trying escaped slaves.

Tells you what they think of women, doesn't it? Forcing them into the slavery of an unwanted pregnancy.

[rainin]

20. Can't they basically do anything they want?

Just because something is illegal, what stops somebody with an agenda from detaining every woman or girl, of childbearing age, and subjecting them to a pregnancy test?

I goes like this: They do it, somebody eventually sues, and when the authorities lose, they appeal and appeal and appeal until it get to the Supreme Court where another protection is lost.

What will stop them?

I say, stockpile pregnancy tests because they'll realize they can control you better if women have to go to the doctor to get a pregnancy test. Then, they can mandate reporting of every pregnancy.

Stockpile morning after pills because they're going to find a way to either make them unavailable, or make it a felony to buy/sell them.

Any other ideas?

[SoCalDavidS]

29. Ideas? Leave This Shithole Country nt

[Lovie777]

21. Stopping only women, young adults and 10 and up women and girls . . ..

oh my. The visual and the backlash.

Just like immigration where they stop and check the vehicle this time for women of pregnancy age.

[NullTuples]

54. And trans men, and nonbinary people too...

That's ones a double bonus for Texas bigots working in law enforcement

[lostnfound]

23. I travelled out of Texas in my 4th month...for a beautiful Europe trip with my sister

An awesome trip — I couldn’t drink any wine, but loved being pregnant. Love the memory of being with Sis sitting in an ancient outdoor theatre at Epidavros..slept in a carved-out-of-stone hotel at Monemvassia.

Is there something wrong with traveling while pregnant?

It was such a happy time, even though I caught a cold and didn’t take much cold medicine because of fear it would be harmful.

Do everything you enjoy while you’re pregnant — one last movie, a trip if you can, spend time with friends or family. Feel free. Once the baby is born, it is a joyful slavery. An oxymoron, but that’s what it feels like — a calling, a 24x7 job, a privilege, a constant preoccupation, and if they are sick and you are sick at the same time? Just taking a shower seems to be a luxury hard to afford.

if something tragic had happened while I was gone to Europe, what right would the state of Texas have had to investigate me? What misery I would have felt — would they have stepped in to make my sorrow even worse?

What happens to a woman’s body is none of their damn business. When our government stops dropping bombs on tiny bodies around the world for a period of time — say, maybe 18 years, the time it takes to raise one child, the time for which you are legally and financially responsible — then it can have an opinion. Until then, STHU.

[mcar]

26. How are they going to know?

Are they going to set up border checkpoints at every road leading out of Texas? Make girls and women pee on a stick at every checkpoint?

Have same at every airport in Texas?

[Demovictory9]

32. I think the point will be to clarify the law so texas women know abortion is illegal for them overal

Anywhere. That once pregnant they have no option.

[mcar]

35. They can try, but that won't work

They cannot prevent girls/women from traveling out of state.

[Abigail_Adams]

76. Biden mentioned that

in his remarks in response to the Dobbs decision. The federal agencies will have some say in this. And Buttieggeg (sp.?) is Sec. of Transportation. Texas trying to impose a police state on traveling women will face serious backlash and likely help Beto.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

46. Even Justice Kavanaugh says that criminalizing women for leaving the state to have an abortion,

is illegal, so if such a case did make it to the SC, then I'm pretty sure the SC would strike it down toot sweet.

https://reason.com/2022/06/24/states-cant-ban-out-of-state-travel-to-get-abortions-writes-kavanaugh/

States Can't Ban Out-of-State Travel To Get Abortions, Writes Kavanaugh

He also nixes the idea that states could "retroactively impose liability or punishment for an abortion that occurred before today's decision takes effect."

After a leaked draft opinion revealed in May that the Supreme Court was likely to overturn Roe v. Wade and upend U.S. abortion laws, one big question that hung in the air was whether states with abortion bans would be able to stop residents from traveling out of state to get abortions. The answer to that question is no, suggests Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

[Retrograde]

56. He also said Roe v Wade was established law

and he was under oath at the time he said that. So I don't take anything else he says as having any meaning or validity.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

57. He did, but he can't be indicted for that,

all he's got to say is that his views have "evolved" since his confirmation hearing.

I take his statements with a grain of sand also, but I'm pretty sure that states cannot ban travel by their citizens for the purpose of preventing an abortion.

[DFW]

30. Good luck with that

The first arrest will elicit the answer, "I just went to New Mexico on holiday. The decision to get an abortion while I was there was purely a spontaneous one."

Let some whack job D.A. try to justify THAT one before an appellate court, even if they DO get an initial conviction. That case would be the latest epidsode of "The Whole World's Watching!"

[bluestarone]

31. Texas would have so many lawsuits on their hands,

IF they tried to stop woman from leaving the state! They won't do it!

[in2herbs]

34. If TX has the right to initiatives the people there should take Texas Paul's advice and

work to enact a law that would imprison rapists for life -- no exceptions.

[Ishoutandscream2]

37. Damn, this is just sick

Reminds me of my readings on the Fugitive Slave laws of the 19th Century. This is absolutely insane.

[Evolve Dammit]

69. Well put.

[keithbvadu2]

38. You can travel to a location for a vacation.

You can travel to a location for a vacation.

You can travel to a location for a health checkup.

If you suddenly decide to get an abortion and they have an availability, that's a different matter.

[SWBTATTReg]

39. I'd worry that they will try and set up concentration camps for pregnant women, until they give

birth. This seems to me, the more disgusting and feasible option that red states have to watch over their pregnant populations.

[Rhiannon12866]

41. "Homes for unwed mothers"

[murielm99]

55. I was just thinking about those.

I am old enough to remember them. A couple of my friends ended up in them. They were forced to give up their babies.

[Demovictory9]

65. A young woman has already set up a ranch for pregnant women

Women want to have the procedure and get on with their lives..not sit around at some home listening to religious talks

[Lettuce Be]

40. If one cannot travel, for any purpose, without the govt getting involved, they are not free

[LeftInTX]

42. Won't happen

The Texas border is too vast.
Redneck Karens will hate all the surveillance
The state can't afford it
They can't prosecute crimes which were committed in another state

[MarineCombatEngineer]

47. ...

They can't prosecute crimes which were committed in another state

Yep, and states that are still legal for abortions have made it crystal clear that they'll tell other states to fuck off if they try that shit.

[ancianita]

48. Impeding or restricting travel is unconstitutional under the 5th and 14th Amendments.

[Wounded Bear]

49. Papers, please...

[Stuart G]

50. Please read this: One of the reasons the Constitution was adopted was lack of interstate commerce.

...Before the U.S. Constitution, travel & business between states was difficult. States set up their own laws &
regulations. The Constitution solved those problems of commerce & business.
....No one can regulate interstate business or interstate travel. When you enter a state, there is a sign that says you
are entering, no check point or cops checking to see if you are a "resident" OF THAT STATE OR NOT. (just a sign)
.............That is the law! IT IS PART OF THE REASON THE CONSTITUTION WAS ADOPTED!!!!

[BannonsLiver]

51. For those dismissing the concerns in the OP

Yes, this would be unconstitutional. Yes, it is unlikely. But in this country, where people are at the mercy of a far right activist court (and many lower court judges are extreme MAGA as well and have lifetime appointments) nothing should ever be taken for granted again. I don’t think this court cares much about public opinion and they can shoe horn just about anything into the “originalism” concept. We’ve likely only scratched the surface of the draconian shit that’s going to come out of that court in the coming years.

[fishwax]

61. well said -- you certainly can't rely confidently on this court to uphold liberties

It's not impossible to imagine some faction of the 6 breaking off and thereby stopping some of Thomas's more ambitious plans, but I certainly wouldn't bet on it.

The movement seems likely to continue on at least three different fronts:

(a) trying to expand the scale of their victory by working towards a national ban (through the legislature if they take either house in the fall and through the courts either way);

(b) expanding the scope of their victory by challenging laws which restrict discrimination against LGBTQ folk; and

(c) more expansive and intrusive techniques to clamp down on behavior they don't approve of. For instance, I'm sure they would like to make it illegal to provide information about out-of-state abortion services (this was already an issue in Texas with their bill last year).

All of these things are going to feed off one another, and any success they have in one of these areas will simply make it easier for them to push forward in the others. They're certainly going to try all this and more. I don't know whether they'll succeed or not, but I know we certainly can't simply trust this court to stop them.

[LeftInTX]

62. This is what is meant in the OP

Cain said he has a particular interest in going after abortion funds, which seek contributions from donors to help defray the cost of out-of-state trips for pregnant Texans to receive the procedure, citing a state law that prohibits “furnishing the means for procuring an abortion.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/09/texas-republicans-roe-wade-abortion-adoptions/

There is only one sentence in the OP that refers to out of state.

About the only thing they can do is prosecute people in Texas who are possibly aiding and abetting. They aren't gonna set up check points.

They can also ban some contributions to these funds or groups or corporations who perform abortion or are pro-choice. For instance, they can ban govt contracts with Dick's Sporting Goods. They already have a similar set up with "Anti-Boycott Israel" groups, corporations etc. They can also ban investments in pro-choice corporations in government employee pensions funds etc.


However, the "anti-Boycott Israel" statute was watered down
https://www.texastribune.org/2019/05/09/Texas-anti-boycott-israel-law-greg-abbott-hb793/

But my hunch is they will do something like this.

They aren't gonna set up check points and crazy stuff. Texas is too large and they will snag mostly Republican women in the process. (Remember Texas is majority GOP).

[Upthevibe]

58. Kick. N/T

[slightlv]

63. Hubby and I were just discussing the corralling

of pregnant people into "homes" while pregnant to be sure they give birth. One "propitious" aspect of this for the R's in this would be the ability to take the white babies, place them in "good xtian republican" homes and bring them up the way they want them to be brought up... as the next generation of white nationalists. This is what I thought of all the babies and foster children that got ushered through Betsy DeVos business during the Bush years. This is big business for them. This just cuts out the middleman and gets the baby directly to the new family.

And I wouldn't put anything like this past these authoritarian Magat Texans or Floridians, or anywhere else they're slithering. Gods, my sister-in-law just moved back there. I can't, for the life of me, understand why. Anywhere in the country they could have moved to in retirement. They're true blue democrats. She was born and raised in Texas, tho. So, back she went. I think she's going to find its not the state she remembers... (sigh) And I'll never cross the border back there again.

[McKim]

67. They Did That in Chile and Argentina!

They did the same in Chile and Argentina during The Dirty War (Thank you Henry KIssinger). Progressive and Left Wing babies were given out to good military families. Some of these children are still looking for their grandparents....I was in Chile and saw a poster that read: "Don't look like the rest of the family? Maybe they're not your parents! Call this number!". Just Wow!

[slightlv]

72. Aw Jeez...

just when you think there can be no lower debasement, they prove you wrong. (sigh)

[Orrex]

64. Kind of sorry I asked, now.

Fucking sad.

[Galraedia]

68. That's like slave owners trying to get back slaves from a free state

It's also unconstitutional as a state can't impose their laws on another state where abortion is legal.

[Martin68]

70. I doubt even this SCOTUS will uphold such a prohibition.

[Hekate]

71. You want precedence? Fugitive Slave Act: there's your precedence

[Alwaysna]

74. This could turn Texas blue.

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

77. What about layover flights?

Or connecting flights through Texas? Are Texas authorities going to demand women who pass through airports to submit to pregnancy tests? And detain them if they are?

Sounds like airlines should be reconsidering their flight schedules!

[moonshinegnomie]

79. No officer I didn't go to Colorado for an abortion

I went to smoke legal dope 😀