Was challenging the Mississippi 15 week abortion ban a mistake?

[Polybius]

Let me be clear: This post is in no way an attack on Democrats. Those who know my posts know that I never do that. I am merely asking a question. You can say yes, no, or maybe.

Now, with that out of the way, a little backstory:

In March 2018, Mississippi passed the Gestational Age Act, which banned abortion after 15 weeks (it passed the House on February 2, 2018, by a 79-31 vote, and then the Senate on March 6, 2018, by a 35-14 vote). Governor Phil Bryant signed the bill into law.

Mississippi's only abortion clinic, Jackson Women's Health Organization, which did surgical abortions up to 16 weeks, challenged the law. Southern District of Mississippi Judge Carlton Reeves agreed, striking it down. The Fifth Circuit upheld Reeves's ruling in a 3–0 decision in December 2019. Mississippi petitioned its appeal of the Fifth Circuit decisions to the Supreme Court in June 2020, and they took up thee case.

I get it, 15 weeks isn't enough time. But the clinic that appealed only did 16 weeks anyway. If they had left it alone, abortion rights would still be constitutionally protected and Mississippi would have a 15 week ban.

But for principle along, was challenging the law a good idea? Or was it a mistake?

[Walleye]

1. Not likely. They have had laws lined up to challenge just waiting for their own Supreme Court

[drray23]

2. I don't think it was.

The gop strategy was to get a case all the way to the supreme court to give an opportunity to the SC to overturn Roe vs Wade. If it was not for this case, another one would have made it. They would have continued to push it with more and more outrageous laws until there was no choice but attempt to stop it by suing.

[DET]

3. It Doesn't Matter

This was a ruling in search of a case.

[In It to Win It]

7. if it wasn't this clinic in this state, it would have been another clinic in another state

They were never going to stop until this got to the Supreme Court.

[JohnSJ]

4. The mistake was Jill Stein voters and Hillary haters not giving a damn about the SC, and

women’s healthcare

Everyone know the SC was at stake in 2016

In every critical swing state Hillary lost by less than 1%. In those critical swing states, Jill Stein received 1% of the vote.

This actually started in 2000 with the Green Party and Nader. That was the warning

[MichMan]

5. In hindsight, it appears that it was.

[In It to Win It]

6. What if the clinic simply ignored the law and performed abortions at their 16 week cutoff anyway?

If it wasn't this particular clinic, it would have been another clinic in another state. They were never going to stop.

[MichMan]

8. They could have lost their license to practice I suppose

[In It to Win It]

9. I suppose that would have happened also

Either the state brings action against the clinic or vice versa in state court. Maybe the state wins at the trial level. Maybe the appeals court strikes it down based on SCOTUS precedent. Maybe the state Supreme Court would have affirmed the appeals court's decision based on SCOTUS precedent. After that, the last place to go is SCOTUS. The state appeals to SCOTUS and the Supremes just couldn't resist.

[walkingman]

10. Woman is the n****r of the world - "John Lennon" and here's the proof. The thing about

pain in childbirth is written in the First book of the Christian Bible - think about that.

[musette_sf]

11. +1

Been playing that, and Janis Ian’s “Resist”, on repeat.

[musette_sf]

12. and Plastic Ono Band

[W_HAMILTON]

13. Are you kidding me?

You do realize that red states were pushing the envelope in the exact hopes that it would get challenged to the Supreme Court and they could overturn it? And that if it were not challenged, the states would simply enact their bans on their own and they would go unchallenged, thus ending up in the same situation we are in now?

I just don't get people on our side, I swear. Holy shit, it's like people bend over backwards to find a way to blame the ones that are actually doing the things it takes to preserve rights.

[FBaggins]

15. Play that out a bit further

You haven’t really gotten to the question in the OP yet.

All of what you say is true, but it would have taken years to get to this point. And maybe we could gain a seat during that time.

I’m sure that there are some women for whom even a month’s delay would have made the difference.

[W_HAMILTON]

20. Yes, I have.

The end result is that Roe v. Wade would be banned in all but blue states. Either through Republicans pushing the envelope enough that it is banned outright or through pushing the envelope enough that it gets challenged to the Supreme Court and gets overturned outright (like they actually did).

And, no, "a month's delay" wouldn't have made the difference because -- surprise, surprise! -- the Supreme Court already refused to delay implementation of such restrictions in other cases (I believe Texas was one of them).

Stop blaming those that are doing what's right for doing what's right.

[Polybius]

17. I guess you didn't read my first sentence

It happens.

[W_HAMILTON]

21. No, I did.

I just didn't grant you what you hoped for because it was not deserved after what you subsequently wrote, much like someone that says, "I'm not a racist, but..."

Stop blaming those that are doing what's right for doing what's right.

[Polybius]

22. Ok, so it went in one ear and out the other

That's fine. Everyone else in the thread was responded with lots of great informative replies.

[W_HAMILTON]

23. No, it was a shameful plea that went unanswered.

Of all the people responsible for this, those fighting for women's rights should be NOWHERE on the list (unless of course they shit on Hillary and didn't vote for her in 2016, in which case, they were never fighting for women's rights to begin with).

[Polybius]

25. There's always that one person

Everyone else was fine with their replies.

[FBaggins]

14. Can't disagree

The ruling was inevitable, but sometimes delaying the inevitable has value.

This occurred in the wake of Heller as states knew that the other shore would eventually fall.

Not sure how long it would have held them off (with the Texas 6-week ban driving forward)…

OTOH - wasn’t this out of our hands before we could know? Wasn’t the other side the one making the call while RBG was still on the court?

[PoliticAverse]

16. The problem with answering a question like that is the answer is only really knowable...

from the future if at all.

For example suppose Republicans were going to take back the House and/or the Senate in the upcoming midterms but this decision coming out when it did results in a backlash and Democrats holding the House and Senate and even increasing their majority in the Senate bypassing the Manchin and Sinema block and bills get passed that increase abortion opportunities for women.

Clearly the current court was ready to reduce abortion rights the only question is when that was going to happen.

[BlueIdaho]

18. This is not the end of abortion rights

It is the beginning of the codification of those rights into law. The GOP just caught the car, let’s see how long it takes for them to get wrapped around its axel.

[tritsofme]

19. That is basically the "middle ground" Roberts pushed for in his concurrence.

Leave Roe “intact” while upholding the MS law.

The Alito 5, bound and determined to kill Roe, were having none of it. If not Dobbs, they just would have found another case to dispose of Roe. In the end, I don’t think it would have made a difference.

[FBaggins]

24. "In the end, I don't think it would have made a difference"

I think that's the point. In the end we would probably end up here. But that end wouldn't have been last week. It might have been years down the road (New York delayed the 2A "end" by at least two years).

And it's always possible that the balance of the court could shift during that time.

[inthewind21]

26. In what fantasy

Would a shift in the SC be possible in 2 years?

[DemocraticPatriot]

27. Clarence Thomas steps in front of a bus...

Kavanaugh succumbs to alcohol poisoning....


All sorts of 'accidents' could happen...