I work with a quite conservative man who is an Orthodox Jew

[obamanut2012]

He is very much pro choice, built on a foundation of his deeply held faith. I am an FB friend of his. He voted for Biden, because he considers TFG a literal Nazi, but the Roe decision has rocked him. He posted a very eloquent, heartfelt, and angry post about the Roe decision this morning, and announced he has changed his voter registration to Dem (we can do it online here in FL, at least in our counties), and will do everything he can to get Crist or Fried elected, as well as Val Demings.

I saw him in the cafe a few minutes ago and talked to him about it, and he said he isn't the only conservative Jew thinking that way. He considers this decision also Anti Semitic, because it is Christiancentric.

I know this means not much re: the big picture, but I found it interesting.

[Joinfortmill]

1. Oh, it means a lot. There are more conservative jewish folks than many of us realize.

[obamanut2012]

6. Especially here in SOFL

Even just a few thousand votes flipped in SOFL could make a huge difference.

[unblock]

12. Meh. We're maybe 2.5% of the total population. And heavily concentrated in blue states.

The only real exception is Florida, where we're about 3.0%.

Overall, 70% of Jews are democrats, although Orthodox Jews skew heavily Republican.

So it is saying a lot for a Republican Orthodox Jew to switch. But the numbers involved are pretty small.


What really matters is that this is likely not an isolated situation. I think many, many people will finally open their eyes to the dangers of the fascist Republican Party.

[Hortensis]

15. Right. Looking to the right, it's shocking how many Jews RWers

imagine there are -- assumptions can run up into large majorities of the populations of "blue" cities. Same for AA. I added the numbers in one discussion, and turned out those people sincerely believed around 150% of Democrats were black and/or Jewish.

I thought it was interesting that this gentleman sees this as anti-Semitic. But of course, any unwelcome imposition of one sect's religious doctrine on all is an attack on other beliefs. And minorities always have a look-out for attacks.

[Ilsa]

26. I think RW Judaism is more about prioritizing

anything that helps Israel, but I could be wrong.

[unblock]

32. actually support of israel is the *one* thing republicans and jews agree on

although most jews are lefty and support the *nation* of israel but not the *politics* of israel. but not all jews are big on making that distinction and republicans love to cloud that question.

republicans love israel for geopolitical reasons, and perhaps for religious reasons (control of jerusalem). they don't give a crap about jews per se.

so they love to focus on support of israel because that gets them some jewish votes and money. when they talk about almost anything else they lose jewish votes.

if they're giving a speech to right-wing jews, they can also talk about business, tax cuts, deregulation, etc. but they don't want the rest of us jews to hear that stuff, they just want us to hear support for israel.


so it's not that support for israel is the biggest priority for right-wing jews, it's that it's the biggest priority for the republicans' strategy for milking the jewish community for money and votes. hence it's what gets to the media the most.

[ShazzieB]

55. Thanks for sharing all this info, unblock.

A lot of it was new to me, and very interesting, especially the differences in how Republicans pitch their message to Jews in general and to RW Jews in particular.

[Hieronymus Phact]

82. Still one more point

Republicans support for Israel is based largely on the Evangelical outlook: in the end times Jews return to Israel and that can't happen if there is no Israel. Many Jews have overlooked this and taken support as support.

What will happen is they will tire of Jews not playing the proper 'Role' and act out on that.

Since Christianity and Islam are both offshoots of Judaism, both religions have narratives and roles that Jews are supposed to play along with, and when they don't it's taken as a religious affront.

The Jewish role in Islamic societies is supposed to be a sort of well-kept minority. like a Dhimmi So the idea that they should have their own governing state (on 'Islamic' land) is another affront.

So: the Jews want an Israel for protection and independence, Muslims don't want an Israel because Jews don't do that here, And Christians do want an Israel so Jews can do their part in ushering in the end times.

Makes perfect sense.

[Hortensis]

42. America's biggest -- BY FAR! -- zionist organization is the Republican Party.

Sheldon Abramson and his wife famously gave (give!) $20M checks to promote zionism, but not to any Jewish organization (all tiny and comparatively powerless in comparison) -- to the giant, enormously powerful, strongly zionist Republican Party. Zionist because it's home of the Christian right and the Bible says the Second Coming (with Christianity inheriting after Judaism and Islam destroy each other) would only happen after the Jews return to the holy lands. The formation of a Jewish homeland in what is now the state of Israel is believed by believers to be that. Zionism is as old as the Bible.

As for RW American Jews, they care about a wide range of issues like anyone else. Healthcare, abortion, immigration, the Democratic socialist threat, Christian fascism. (And they know Republicans support Israel believing it will result in a "final solution" to Judaism, but...hey! You work with what you have.)

Btw, my husband's Jewish and his relatives, but pretty reliably liberal. They support the state of Israel but strongly deplore what strong conservative influence in government has done. Now that the latest, coalition government has collapsed,...

[Ilsa]

67. Yeah, I tend to forget the entrenchment of prophecy in

the evangelical RW GOP. I get how you husband supports Israel but can't be like the Adelsons.

[Hortensis]

80. Not just evangelical or RW, tho. Nearly 2-1/2 BILLION Christians.

It's in the Christian Bible, and about 1/3 of all mankind (!) accept with various degrees of devoutness that Jesus will come again, return of the Jews to the holy lands is part of god's plan, etc. That's a lot of people.

And, yeah, our support for Israel is the same secular acceptance and good will we'd have toward any prosperous democracy of over 9 million people, roughly a quarter of whom are Muslims and various other non-Jews. They need to get control of government away from conservative bigots, but then so do we.

[Maggiemayhem]

70. Shelton Adelson

Trumps biggest donor.

[unblock]

29. oh it absolutely is anti-semitic.

abortion isn't just an opinion many jews just happen to have. it's part of our heritage and part of the jewish concept of respect for women (which is kinda odd, because traditional judaism has a lot of rather conservative attitudes towards women).

traditional judaism views women as having separate roles from men. even today, there are synagogues that separate men from women, and there are certain rituals for women only, etc. i'd call a lot of this sexist. however, there has always been respect for women in their roles. they are in charge of the home, and they are in charge of their bodies.

and the torah is quite clear that a soul enters the body upon its first breath. it's just a soulless clump of cells before birth.

moreover, it's not merely a woman's choice. it's a *requirement* for doctors and others to provide an abortion for the sake of the health (mental/physical -- it doesn't have to be a matter of life or death) of the woman if she so desires.


as the united nations says, gestational slavery is torture. if a woman *wants* the pregnancy, then it is the greatest gift she can give to another. but requiring a woman to endure such torture against her will is an abomination.

[obamanut2012]

30. Yup, this is the gist of what he said in his FB post this morning

I knew this factually already, but it was very interesting and moving seeing it wrapped up in his faith and life, and the life of his wife and other women.

[LeftInTX]

41. May I ask why was abortion a crime in New York prior to 1965 and was still very limited until 1970?

I don't believe a religious group sued prior to 1973..z

Did any religious groups sue prior to 1973?

In New York abortion was illegal until 1965 and wasn't fully legal until 1970..Meanwhile, it was also becoming legal on some states that did not have a significant Jewish population.


The first statute to criminalize abortion in New York State happened in 1827. The law made post-quickening abortions a felony.[5][10] It made pre-quickening abortions a misdemeanor.[5][10] New York repealed its 1830 law and allowed abortions up to the 24th week of pregnancy.[11] New York became the first state to create a therapeutic exemption that allowed women to have abortions if their life was at risk by continuing the pregnancy.[5] In 1845, New York passed a statute that said women who had abortions could be given a prison sentence of three months to a year. They were one of the few states at the time to have laws punishing women for getting abortions.[5] Susannah Lattin's death led to an investigation that resulted in regulating maternity clinics and adoptions in New York City in 1868.[12][13] In 1872, New York state made it a penalty to performing an abortion, with a criminal sentence of between 4 and 20 years in prison.[5]

The New York State legislature amended their abortion-related statute in 1965 to allow for more therapeutic exceptions.[5]

On April 10, 1970, the New York Senate passed a law decriminalizing abortion in most cases.[14] Republican Governor Nelson A. Rockefeller signed the bill into law the next day.[15] At the time, New York State was a Republican "trifecta," meaning both chambers of the legislature and the governorship were Republican-controlled.[14] The 1970 law did several things. First, it added a consent provision requiring a physician to obtain the woman's consent before performing an abortion.[16] Second, it permitted physician-performed abortion on demand within the first 24-weeks of pregnancy or to preserve her life.[16] Third, it permitted a woman, when acting upon the advice of a duly licensed physician, to perform an "abortional act" on herself within the first 24-weeks of pregnancy or to preserve her life.[16] New York was the second state, after Hawaii, to enact landmark abortion law legislation.[17] Unlike Hawaii, however, New York's abortion law did not have a 90-day residency requirement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_New_York#:~:text=New%20York%20was%20the%20second,law%20that%20made%20abortion%20legal.
.[18]

[unblock]

43. Jews today are only 9% of New York state

Jews are heavily concentrated in and near New York City, but we're vastly outnumbered upstate and in Albany.

And for the most part, Jews can accept a ban on abortion after viability, when a woman can theoretically end the pregnancy without necessarily ending the life of the fetus.

[LeftInTX]

44. I still wonder if someone didn't sue based on religious discrimination back then?

If it can be proven so now, it will probably only allow abortions on Jewish women

[stopdiggin]

69. because 'religious discrimination' ITSELF was regarded

very differently (both by courts and public) back in the 'olden days.'

[obamanut2012]

72. Good answer

[LeftInTX]

84. Not really. Courts were more liberal even back in 1963

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16863620

The current court will overthrow Abington School District v. Schempp

374 U.S. 203 (1963), United States Supreme Court case in which the Court decided 8–1 in favor of the respondent, Edward Schempp on behalf of his son Ellery Schempp, and declared that school-sponsored Bible reading in public schools in the United States was unconstitutional.[1]

This case was consolidated with Madeline Murray O'Hare's school prayer case.

I'm pretty sure this case will be challenged and overthrown. We'll be back to mandatory school prayer and bible readings

[LeftInTX]

83. Not really:

Abington School District v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court decided 8–1 in favor of the respondent, Edward Schempp on behalf of his son Ellery Schempp, and declared that school-sponsored Bible reading in public schools in the United States was unconstitutional.[1]

The Abington case began when Edward Schempp, a Unitarian Universalist and a resident of Abington Township, Pennsylvania, filed suit against the Abington School District in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania to prohibit the enforcement of a Pennsylvania state law that required his children, specifically Ellery Schempp, to hear and sometimes read portions of the Bible as part of their public school education.[2] That law (24 Pa. Stat. 15-1516, as amended, Pub. Law 1928) required that "[a]t least ten verses from the Holy Bible [be] read, without comment, at the opening of each public school on each school day." Schempp specifically contended that the statute violated his and his family's rights under the First and Fourteenth Amendments.[1]

Pennsylvania law, like that of four other states, included a statute compelling school districts to perform Bible readings in the mornings before classes. Twenty-five states had laws allowing "optional" Bible reading, with the remainder of the states having no laws supporting or rejecting Bible reading. In eleven of those states with laws supportive of Bible reading or state-sponsored prayer, the state courts had declared the laws to be unconstitutional.[3]

A related case was that brought by Madalyn Murray O'Hair, mother of plaintiff William J. Murray III (b. 1946), who filed suit against the local school system in Murray v. Curlett to prohibit compulsory prayer and Bible reading in public schools. In 1963, she founded the group American Atheists (originally known as the Society of Separationists). The Murray case was consolidated with Schempp's case on appeal to the Supreme Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abington_School_District_v._Schempp

We had a much different and more liberal court back then! If challenged, this court will throw out Abington v Schempp

[stopdiggin]

86. I think you've just proved my point ..

a really robust idea of individual religious freedom is something that has been gradually teased out of - a place where it was largely a foreign (if not subversive) concept.

[Hortensis]

46. Good answer. My Jewish MIL was Reform and grew up taught that

the "fetus" became a person when the head was born, but that was a very old doctrine and neither she nor I, nor others, believed the pregnancy I was carrying wasn't already a person in the last months.

This was in 1970, three years before Roe, but the science-based concept of abortion before viability for any reason and only for extremely limited reasons once viable was already widely accepted.

The older beliefs, like okay to abort when they couldn't get the rest of the body out, were formed by the realities that pregnancy and birth were high risk for women and babies and that survival often required any help that could be given. Today it's incredibly safer where modern care is available, and we have ultrasounds and other shows of unborns sucking their thumbs and recognizing voices, and much else, to provide a far better understanding of this voiceless stage.

[unblock]

49. There's a world of difference between a wanted and unwanted pregnancy

My first wife has a miscarriage at 9 weeks, but by then we were already making plans, talking about possible names, etc. when she passed it, we had a little funeral on our back yard. It felt like a death in the family.

Part of me feels a bit silly in retrospect, but at the same time, it comes alive when you imbue it with hopes and dreams and plans.

A unwanted pregnancy has none of that. It's just a parasite wreaking havoc on a woman's body and life.

[Hortensis]

51. To those with voices, but not so much to the one whose can't be heard?

Nine weeks is tragically hopeless, but when already accepted and loved nevertheless a person who would have been. I don't think it was silly at all.

I didn't go on birth control for the first time until after our first baby was born and literally in my arms. We adored him, so I was acutely aware that we were denying life to other children who would have become adored babies like him. We felt we couldn't afford not to, but to this day that decision still lives for me -- in those who we didn't allow to live. We're not religious and it wasn't all that different for us than aborting, just a different stage of decision.

Viability is around 23 weeks now, incredibly farther advanced than 9.

[unblock]

54. Indeed, the never-conceived is a part of the picture the right wing also ignores

Many people who have abortions go on to have children -- when the time and situation is right.

Those who are denied an abortion may end up never having other children.

It's called family planning for a reason. Let women have decide how to create their family.

[Hortensis]

60. True. And we had another child later, just a different one.

I've read that research into how many fertilized eggs/fetuses are aborted by the body has been quashed, but it's apparently fairly reliably estimated at over 70% and conceivably (pun!) over 80%. Whatever the numbers, the human reproductive system is very inefficient.

[iluvtennis]

48. Thanks for this additional clarifying info. I love the requirement that abortion must be provided

for the HEALTH of the woman.

[jaxexpat]

34. Oh, Hortensis. You're so smart, so other-worldly wise,

you're glancing blows, straightforward and true, leaving hardly a scar.

But please confess. Is it your plant nature* or your ageless secret identity? People want to know! You cannot deny us.

*Between you and me, I'd admit to plant identity. It's respectfully biodegradable and everybody likes plants.

Still, you're right. RWers are terribly naive.

[lefthandedskyhook]

65. Understood

My Jewish friends are a reliable prybar against tyranny. They pull more than their weight

[fierywoman]

2. Thank you for reporting this ray of hope.

[obamanut2012]

7. You are welcome

We are very collegial, although I know we disagree on many things.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. That is good news! Let's hope he's just the tip of the iceberg. n/t

[obamanut2012]

8. !!!

[wyn borkins]

4. Thank you for this insightful discussion (n/t)

[obamanut2012]

10. No worries!

[Ocelot II]

5. Some Jews are arguing that banning abortion violates their religious freedom.

Modern Jewish belief in abortion rights is .... backed by ancient teachings. According to Jewish law, life doesn’t begin at conception. This is, of course, in direct contrast with the beliefs of the Catholic Church as well as numerous other Christian denominations — religious beliefs that are not mine but which undoubtedly played a critical role in the decision to strip me of my abortion rights. The Talmud, the text most central to Jewish law, states that a fetus is “mere water” and not granted personhood until birth. The Mishnah, the primary book of Jewish legal theory dating to the first century, says a fetus may be sacrificed even during labor if the mother’s life is in danger — a third-trimester abortion right that even 21st-century California law does not guarantee. “Generally speaking … an abortion may be a requirement if the mother’s life is in danger,” Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg wrote on Twitter. “Saving a life is basically the highest priority in Judaism and the personhood here is the mother’s.” Jewish law holds that abortion services are health care, plain and simple. That’s why the National Council of Jewish Women asserts that abortion bans “unduly favor one religious viewpoint over another.”

Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article262868013.html#storylink=cpy

Of course, in this political climate, religious freedom applies only to evangelical Christians and Catholics, except for the ones who believe in liberation theology.

[obamanut2012]

9. That's what my colleage said

"So, my wife gets pregnant and the fetus has no brain and dies in her womb, and she will be made to carry it? If the dead fetus doesn't kill her, it would kill her mentally. Why do these people get to tell her she needs to die, because she cannot do what her doctor and faith instruct her to do?"

Almost exactly what he said, and he said more, too.

[Hekate]

13. Bingo. "The personhood is the mother's"

The SCOTUS is overrun with Roman Catholic & Opus Dei fanatics who are in league with fanatical American Evangelicals.

Theirs is NOT the only religion in this country. They no right to speak for all religions. And first and foremost in this country there is supposed to be a wall of separation between church and state, and that is absolutely settled precedent from the dawn of the republic.

[Ocelot II]

14. I hope a Jewish woman or group figures out a way to sue on the ground

that their religious freedom is being infringed by a state's anti-abortion law. Then we'll see very clearly what the Court really means when they talk about religious freedom and who they think is entitled to it.

[TheRickles]

23. Exactly!

[LeftInTX]

33. That's what needs to be done

However I don't believe Roe was decided in 1973 or overturned based on religion or lack of.
Would need to read the opinion. I believe it was overturned because it was not part of the constitution.

Sure it had a bunch of religious groups pushing for Roe to be overturned. Does the opinion quote Christian doctrine, theology, when life starts etc etc etc ?

[ShazzieB]

61. There's already one lawsuit that I know of.

This suit was filed a week before the Roe decision was announced, in response to a Florida law that is due to take effect on July 1.

Now that Roe has been struck down, I'm sure there will be many, many more like it!

Florida abortion ban violates Jews' religious freedom, lawsuit says

June 14 (Reuters) - Florida's ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy violates the religious freedom of Jews because Jewish law requires the procedure in some cases, a Boynton Beach synagogue said in a lawsuit.

The lawsuit, filed in state court on Friday [June 10] by Congregation L'Dor Va-Dor, also says that the abortion ban violates the right to privacy guaranteed by the state constitution.

*snip*

The synagogue said Florida's law, which DeSantis signed in April, violated the state constitution's guarantee of religious freedom.

"For Jews, all life is precious and thus the decision to bring new life into the world is not taken lightly or determined by state fiat," the lawsuit said. "In Jewish law, abortion is necessary if required to protect the health, mental or physical well-being of the women or for many other reasons not permitted (by Florida's law)."

More: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/florida-abortion-ban-violates-jews-religious-freedom-lawsuit-says-2022-06-14/

[obamanut2012]

19. It is exactly that

[leftyladyfrommo]

24. They are doing their best to tear that wall to shreds.

One step at a time.

[True Blue American]

57. They sued Florida.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/florida-abortion-ban-violates-jews-religious-freedom-lawsuit-says-2022-06-14/

[Ocelot II]

58. Good!

[obamanut2012]

73. Yeah, we are all watching this very closely here

[ShazzieB]

59. I love this quote!

“Saving a life is basically the highest priority in Judaism and the personhood here is the mother’s.” -- Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg

Just wanted to highlight this, because I think it's brilliant!

[bucolic_frolic]

11. Means not much?

FL has many just like him. If they go Dem it could tilt a close election here or there.

[obamanut2012]

20. I know, am hoping, too...

Especially to stop DeSantis.

[Grins]

16. He doesn't sound like he would be a Republican in the first place

It took this for him to get pissed?

I don’t know why any Jew would be a Republican.
I don’t know why any woman would be, either!

[Wounded Bear]

25. Fiscal conservatism, maybe?

For women, I can't fathom it.

[Mariana]

45. I suspect most women who vote Republican

do so because of their religious beliefs. Religious beliefs aren't rational by definition, so of course their behavior doesn't make any sense.

[Evolve Dammit]

53. I can' fathom the "fiscal conservatism" belief either. Bush/Cheney "deficits don't matter", massive

Tax cuts that only benefit the wealthy, and the endless grifting and dark money from Citizens United seems reckless and shady.

[Demovictory9]

17. Good

[Totally Tunsie]

18. And he tells two people, and they tell two people,

and before long there is a crowd. Another journey beginning with a first step...

[obamanut2012]

21. He is very involved in his community center

And his son's Jewish HS, so...

[Totally Tunsie]

27. For twenty+ years I worked for two well-known brothers/business owners

who are very active in the Jewish community, and I know how effective their members can be. Your friend/co-worker's influence can carry far. Thank him and praise him for his stance.

[obamanut2012]

31. I thanked him for me, but I will also thank him for you!

And that he is inspiring hope amongst the gentiles!

[Totally Tunsie]

36. +++

[IronLionZion]

22. Every vote counts in close elections

hoping for more voters flipping to D

[Wounded Bear]

28. K & R...nt

[LetMyPeopleVote]

35. The hypocrisy of Christian 'religious freedom' rhetoric post-Roe Why is right-wing Christianity the

I am Jewish and the Dobbs case has ignored Jewish law and has adopt a warped christian view on this issue. Jewish law is clear that live begins at the first breath. These is a Florida synagogue which is suing over this issue

Link to tweet

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/roe-v-wade-overturned-abortion-banned-christian-freedom-what-about-n1296568?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma

This is precisely the argument that a South Florida synagogue, Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor, is making in court. This month, the Palm Beach County synagogue filed a lawsuit challenging Florida’s 15-week abortion ban on the grounds that it violates the right to privacy and freedom of religion, both of which are codified in the state’s constitution. Jewish law, the suit states, affirms that “abortion is required if necessary to protect the health, mental or physical well-being of the woman.”

Rabbi Samantha Frank, a rabbinic fellow at Temple Micah in Washington, D.C., confirmed to me that in Judaism, reproductive justice goes back to the Torah (the Hebrew Bible), specifically the book of Exodus, in which a differentiation is made between the life of a fetus and the life of a pregnant person. Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg recently summarized the story that this argument comes from in an essay for The Atlantic:

“Two people are fighting; one accidentally pushes someone who is pregnant, causing a miscarriage. The text outlines the consequences: If only a miscarriage happens, the harm doer is obligated to pay financial damages. If, however, the pregnant person dies, the case is treated as manslaughter. The meaning is clear: The fetus is regarded as potential life, rather than actual life.”....

“Banning abortion is a violation of our religious liberty and ability to fulfill even our religious obligations, the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment,” Rabbi Ruttenberg told me in an email. “The Talmud [the text that serves as the primary source of Jewish law] considers the fetus ‘mere water’ for the first 40 days after conception and part of the pregnant person's body after that – as potential life until birth, not as actual life at conception. Enshrining one specific theology as law is a violation of the Establishment Clause.”

[obamanut2012]

40. Yup, and other religions align closely with Judiasm, too

[electric_blue68]

37. Oh, how interesting!

[obamanut2012]

62. YUp!

[True Blue American]

38. Heard this last week.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/16/us/florida-abortion-law-judaism.html

Said it violated their teachings.

https://www.newsweek.com/synagogue-sues-florida-over-abortion-ban-violating-religious-freedoms-1715835

[Grumpy Old Guy]

39. I have Orthodox friends who are Republican.

I believe that, in their minds, Republicans show more support for Israel. (I'm Jewish, and I don't believe that). Some of them are Trump supporters.

Maybe this will help them to finally see the light.

[LiberalFighter]

47. Every bit makes a difference.

There are many different groups that as a whole will make a difference.

[Mosby]

50. Here is a summary of the orthodox position on abortion.

Last edited Mon Jun 27, 2022, 07:50 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/529077/jewish/Judaism-and-Abortion.htm

[elleng]

52. Thanks, it is interesting, and glad to see mention of Val Demings,

whose name I haven't seen recently; did receive a solicitation from her yesterday.

[obamanut2012]

63. Our primaries are really late here -- in August

[elleng]

64. Thanks; I won't be too concerned.

[obamanut2012]

74. It is both nice and bad they are so late

[True Blue American]

56. This might help.

https://www.businessinsider.com/synagogue-sues-florida-abortion-law-violates-jewish-faith-2022-6

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/florida-abortion-ban-violates-jews-religious-freedom-lawsuit-says-2022-06-14/

[BootinUp]

66. ty!

[TBF]

68. I'm pretty sure abortions are covered in Israeli healthcare -

they have had some really interesting info to watch re Covid as well because it's a pretty small population and they let Pfizer in fairly early to give boosters.

[obamanut2012]

75. Very interesting fact!

[TBF]

85. There have been some very recent news stories that they are loosening it more -

but this is a collection of some of the info: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/legal-terms-of-abortion-in-israel

They had a committee you would go before, and not all were free, but they approved most of the requests.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

71. Very enlightening thread, ObamaNut. Thanks for posting.

Many of us old-timers raised in the 60s South are learning more each day!

You do indeed have a good friend.


KY.......

[obamanut2012]

76. You are welcome!

I know Judaism supports abortion in many cases, but it was very interesting to see my friend publicly state his position and feelings about everything. I thought some folks here would, too, and they do!

[Icanthinkformyself]

77. My family

varies from Evangelical Christians (my eldest brother and much of his family) to Orthodox Jews (my Chabad co-director daughter and
her Rabbi husband) with everything in between (me and my other three brothers). My brother is not a typical Evangelical. He is one of the few progressives in his group. I will be polling the family this summer. But, my sense at this point is that the GQP is about to face a major shytstorm in November.

[efhmc]

78. I am wondering why there will not be thousands of cases brought to the courts about the separation

of church and state. IT seems that there is not any any more.

[DownriverDem]

79. Worked for a Jewsh Law Firm

I was told they don't consider a fetus a person until it's born. I like seeing that your friend is so against this ruling that he will vote for the Dems. We can retore the rights taken away in Roe if we elect more Dems. We need Dem votes to pass the Women's Health Protection Act. It's about winning elections and having Dem votes.

[lillypaddle]

81. When I worked for Planned Parenthood

There were lots of Jews, and many were conservative, that passed through over the years on various committees and on the board of directors. They were also some of our most valuable donors. Not to stereotype, but they always seemed open minded, and extremely wise.