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Tweet by Don Winslow. I think he's right. (Original Post) TDale313 Jul 2022 OP
K and R Ferrets are Cool Jul 2022 #1
The world will continue but without a US democratic system. Irish_Dem Jul 2022 #2
I think he might be right. Mr. Evil Jul 2022 #17
It would never occur to them, the rapture may not go as they think it will. 2Gingersnaps Jul 2022 #26
Yep. At the pearly gates St Peter is going to kick their asses straight to hell. Irish_Dem Jul 2022 #34
...may not go as they think it will. keithbvadu2 Jul 2022 #56
You make a good point. With lunatics in charge of the world, the clock is ticking towards BOOM. Irish_Dem Jul 2022 #33
If you and I don't have a good enough spine, get a new one Tetrachloride Jul 2022 #3
yes yes good start housecat Jul 2022 #37
It will shut down any chance of fighting climate change, so Gaugamela Jul 2022 #4
At least we would be able to stop worrying about voting rights lostnfound Jul 2022 #5
There seems to be a coordinated effort from republican... brush Jul 2022 #6
The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) KS Toronado Jul 2022 #9
+1. Most "election integrity" laws come from their boilerplate. dalton99a Jul 2022 #10
I'm pretty sure I read that Thomas asked stated to send getagrip_already Jul 2022 #25
Re ALEC, see this: highplainsdem Jul 2022 #27
Thank you. Your links show ALEC is involved up... brush Jul 2022 #43
Interesting tidbit. 2Gingersnaps Jul 2022 #28
I just don't get it. CrispyQ Jul 2022 #61
And it's RIGHT NOW. NOT many generations away. calimary Jul 2022 #63
It's coming. rubbersole Jul 2022 #7
To what are you referring? Thanks mrsadm Jul 2022 #19
Read about the Anita Hill testimony. vanlassie Jul 2022 #23
Clarence was a perve 2Gingersnaps Jul 2022 #29
thanks for the info mrsadm Jul 2022 #31
Here's what his tweet said. summer_in_TX Jul 2022 #38
Yes, the Moore v. Harper decision really scares me mrsadm Jul 2022 #45
You can sell any kind of shit when you put the word doctrine behind it. CrispyQ Jul 2022 #62
6-3 They side with state power every time bucolic_frolic Jul 2022 #8
They will toss states rights into the shitter if/when they declare foetal personhood from conception Celerity Jul 2022 #16
They did not side with states rights on the NY concealed carry case. soldierant Jul 2022 #44
Not every time Bettie Jul 2022 #64
If they do, they better repeal the second amendment first. Augiedog Jul 2022 #11
No one wants to think about this, but perhaps it's time to consider two countries. Lonestarblue Jul 2022 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author mrsadm Jul 2022 #22
Not a bad idea, just very difficult to achieve. MarcA Jul 2022 #35
I've been saying this for a while. slightlv Jul 2022 #48
Once again: there is no Mason-Dixon Line in 2022. Every Blue state has big patches of Red... Hekate Jul 2022 #49
What should folks who live in the ATL metro do? greymattermom Jul 2022 #60
Shared military between two separate nations wnylib Jul 2022 #54
"The Trump Court" lefthandedskyhook Jul 2022 #13
Besides being scared (I'm there!), what can we do? BadgerMom Jul 2022 #14
Man, do I hear you. Joinfortmill Jul 2022 #21
K&R Bayard Jul 2022 #15
Winslow is correct Pas-de-Calais Jul 2022 #18
Somebody has been asleep at the wheel for a very long time... We're in a mess now. Joinfortmill Jul 2022 #20
A true set back for sure, but the "END of the world" is hyperbole. panader0 Jul 2022 #24
Yep. Sounds like it. calimary Jul 2022 #30
Great. I got some groceries, some peanut butter... Dam this court to H and back (select members) Evolve Dammit Jul 2022 #32
There is a possibility we may have seen our last fair and free presidential election LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2022 #36
Beschloss may be right (and Winslow) summer_in_TX Jul 2022 #41
Has the President called any of this fascism? d_b Jul 2022 #39
That's how Rebl2 Jul 2022 #40
Dumno about the end of the world, but it sure would change things.. TreasonousBastard Jul 2022 #42
It will be the end of the United States. roamer65 Jul 2022 #46
Presidential historian Michael Beschloss said the same thing on MSNBC last night: Rhiannon12866 Jul 2022 #47
Rt🤷‍♂️💕TY & Don Winslow.. Cha Jul 2022 #50
I'm thinking Civil War.. the Possibility Cha Jul 2022 #51
And people wonder why the Fascist Five are so cocky ecstatic Jul 2022 #52
he is correct Skittles Jul 2022 #53
Indeed G_j Jul 2022 #55
Draft fairness guidelines for federal elections...nuke the filibuster if necessary. pecosbob Jul 2022 #57
Voters must speak to this rw 'sickness' empedocles Jul 2022 #58
I'm torn on this 1,MAGA judges can override state voter laws and impose their own uponit7771 Jul 2022 #59

Mr. Evil

(2,841 posts)
17. I think he might be right.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 01:38 PM
Jul 2022

These deranged lunatics believe in the rapture. They'll most likely set in motion events to get it.

2Gingersnaps

(1,000 posts)
26. It would never occur to them, the rapture may not go as they think it will.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 02:17 PM
Jul 2022

"How you treat the least of my children so you treat me."

Having said that, I was a foster kid in Ohio after my parents death, one to cancer, the other to a heart attack. No Trumpublicans they were not druggy losers that caused our abandonment to your tender mercy. So yeah 6,5,4, and 2 in the foster system. Check with Columbus Dispatch to see how the foster system is going 50 years later. How many kids die or disappear.

Long story short, I had a great Sunday school teacher as a kid. You can bet I prayed. I read Charles Dickens as a kid. Then I read real history. I no longer pray. Yes, they are setting the events in motion to get their rapture. Ask Mike Pence and Mike Pompeo. Getting their Middle East War to bring about "end of days" via Iran, Israel, or Russia is a thing with those people.

Irish_Dem

(47,021 posts)
34. Yep. At the pearly gates St Peter is going to kick their asses straight to hell.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 02:43 PM
Jul 2022

I'd pay cash money to see that.

Sorry to hear you were in the Ohio foster system. Yes not a good situation.
Glad to hear you were a reader as a kid, it sure helped me get through difficult situations.

keithbvadu2

(36,788 posts)
56. ...may not go as they think it will.
Sun Jul 3, 2022, 12:16 AM
Jul 2022

Maybe the rapture has already occurred and they are still here - with the rest of us.



Tetrachloride

(7,839 posts)
3. If you and I don't have a good enough spine, get a new one
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 11:41 AM
Jul 2022

Don’t like Fourth of July? make it your own.

Surrender is what the Right Wing wants.

Go after the Court, Rethug Senate. Shine a light. make them uncomfortable. No place to hide. Take away their golf courses and mansions and privacy.

Gaugamela

(2,496 posts)
4. It will shut down any chance of fighting climate change, so
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 12:03 PM
Jul 2022

yeah, the end of the world. No expert here, but everything I read indicates that on our current trajectory civilization will not last to the end of the century.

lostnfound

(16,177 posts)
5. At least we would be able to stop worrying about voting rights
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 12:12 PM
Jul 2022

There wouldn’t be any, so no need to worry about them.

brush

(53,776 posts)
6. There seems to be a coordinated effort from republican...
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 12:14 PM
Jul 2022

operators to funnel cases that comprises repub wish lists to SCOTUS for them to rule on—like what was done with the Dobbs v Jackson abortion case out of Mississippi, the disastrous EPA-limiting ruling, and now this case for them to rule that state legislatures can nullify election results they don't like.

What's next, as I'm sure maga operators are huddling together to come with the next wish list item to tee-up for SCOTUS.

Is the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) still operating? They're the outfit that used to write up a lot of winger legislation for state legislatures. They were prominent during the Bush and Obama admins but I haven't heard much of them lately but this shady case seems right up their line.

Somebody in red states is coordinating this stuff and it seems they're all communicating to strike while they've got the SCOTUS Taliban 6 in place, ready and waiting to move the country into far-right, fascist territory.

KS Toronado

(17,220 posts)
9. The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC)
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 12:34 PM
Jul 2022

is unfortunately alive and well. Wonder if The Southern Poverty Law Center could
tag them as a hate or terrorist group? Shoe does seem to fit them.

getagrip_already

(14,742 posts)
25. I'm pretty sure I read that Thomas asked stated to send
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 02:03 PM
Jul 2022

A case like this.

The court can only rule on cases brought to it, s po they ask for cases to rule on.

Activism.

brush

(53,776 posts)
43. Thank you. Your links show ALEC is involved up...
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 05:40 PM
Jul 2022

to their ears in this and other policy legislation magats want. Seems they farmed this out to a dark money group.

So many evil, wannabe fascist groups out there.

2Gingersnaps

(1,000 posts)
28. Interesting tidbit.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 02:20 PM
Jul 2022

Neil Gorsuch's mother was the EPA administrator that tried to destroy the EPA for Reagan. This happened over the course of 40 years. They have worked long and hard for this result.

CrispyQ

(36,461 posts)
61. I just don't get it.
Sun Jul 3, 2022, 11:17 AM
Jul 2022

These people have children & grandchildren. Do they consider at all what kind of planet we're leaving the kids? Or do they think their money will protect them from the worst of climate change? Dennis Miller once joked that he didn't care about climate change because the bad affects were so many generations away. That's not the case anymore. What's going to happen to the southwest when Lakes Powell & Mead go dry? This is in our own country, not somewhere around the world.

calimary

(81,238 posts)
63. And it's RIGHT NOW. NOT many generations away.
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 06:34 PM
Jul 2022

Once upon a time I was a Dennis Miller fan. Many generations ago.

2Gingersnaps

(1,000 posts)
29. Clarence was a perve
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 02:22 PM
Jul 2022

who liked to force his staff to watch porn. Among other things. Kavanaugh wasn't the first one to get a free pass.

mrsadm

(1,198 posts)
31. thanks for the info
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 02:28 PM
Jul 2022

I avoided the Anita Hill hearings, leaving it at the high level for my easily angered brain.

summer_in_TX

(2,738 posts)
38. Here's what his tweet said.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 04:23 PM
Jul 2022


Don Winslow
@donwinslow
Spend 5 minutes today learning about Moore v. Harper.

If the Trump Court rules that states can ultimately decide elections regardless of how people vote it will be the actual END of the world as you know it.

Fact not hyperbole.


I think he's right, it'd end democracy as we know it.. https://mitch.us-east-1.linodeobjects.com/moore%20v%20harper.pdf

2022 will be a freer and fairer election than 2024 in my opinion. Likely the Moore decision will come next year, end of term. I don't trust this Supreme Court to not rule for the “Independent State Legislature Doctrine.”

CrispyQ

(36,461 posts)
62. You can sell any kind of shit when you put the word doctrine behind it.
Sun Jul 3, 2022, 11:21 AM
Jul 2022

You are right—this SCOTUS is not to be trusted.

Celerity

(43,343 posts)
16. They will toss states rights into the shitter if/when they declare foetal personhood from conception
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 01:25 PM
Jul 2022

That will instantly outlaw all abortions, save those to save a mother's life (and even those may be dodgy in some psychos' minds) nationwide.

That is when the clear countdown to Blue State session and/or civil kinetic war kicks off (there are some other possible triggers too, like what Winslow speaks of).

soldierant

(6,857 posts)
44. They did not side with states rights on the NY concealed carry case.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 06:28 PM
Jul 2022

They only side with states rights if it helps them.

If they get a majority on Congress, and pass legislation to outlaw aboirtion, or gay or interracial marriage, o r contraception, or to drastically restrict voting rights, the court will no t side with states which oppose them.

Bettie

(16,096 posts)
64. Not every time
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 07:16 PM
Jul 2022

they pick and choose which things states get to decide.

Gun laws? Nope, states can't decide.

Lonestarblue

(9,982 posts)
12. No one wants to think about this, but perhaps it's time to consider two countries.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 01:07 PM
Jul 2022

I would like to see a group of experts (don’t ask me in what!) evaluate the issues of separation into the Democratic States of America and the Republican States of America. We could evaluate a virtual separation versus a physical separation, which would provide for the reasonable movement of people and goods from one entity to the other, but each would have its own government as is done in the EU. With a virtual separation, major cities could choose the country to join and thus follow the laws of its chosen country, not the laws of its former country.

Of course, there are lots of disadvantages to separation, including the movement of guns across virtual borders. Perhaps well-enforced laws could help prevent gun trafficking. Red states would also suffer disadvantages in that they would no longer be supported by the taxes in blue states, but their disadvantage is our advantage as we would have more money to invest.

What to do about the military and other shared obligations would be a big issue. Perhaps command of the military could shift from one country to another on a defined schedule, perhaps every two years.

Maybe indulging myself in pie-in-the-sky wishing, but as I see our democracy being eroded day by day and personal rights being erased entirely, I’m not willing to roll over and play dead. I’m old enough that the loss of democracy will not affect me much, but I’m not so old as to be beyond caring. We still have the 2022 election as a beacon, and if we can gain enough Senate seats and hold the House, there’s real opportunity for change if Democrats are determined.

My donations will be going to Ryan in Ohio, Fetterman in Pennsylvania, and a third race somewhere, possibly Georgia. If anyone has recommendations for another Senate race that could be won and House members who need extra support, please respond in comments.

Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #12)

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
35. Not a bad idea, just very difficult to achieve.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 03:01 PM
Jul 2022

First, the Logistics would be enormous, as you pointed out. Ours is not a situation like Czechoslovakia which was a much smaller nation that had been ruled by outside forces for much of its 75 year existence. Secondly, even a peaceably divided US would not have as much strength on the world stage, although most of the other larger Nation States are having their own stability problems. Lastly, and most importantly, the Radical Rs have no intention of giving up anything and would seek to destroy what it could not keep and rule.

slightlv

(2,787 posts)
48. I've been saying this for a while.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 07:30 PM
Jul 2022

I see no other way out, especially since these recent rulings from SCOTUS, and in light of what will be coming down from them in the future. However, I've not thought of "virtual" separation, but physical. I don't see how a virtual separation can work. I can see how a physical separation could work, tho it would be difficult as hell to achieve... much more so than a virtual one. Biggest would be simple logistics of helping people move from one part of the country to the other - and there would have to be help. I don't think the Blues caught in the Red states are the poorest, but we're pretty damn near the bottom of the barrel. Many of us are older, and have sunk just about everything we have trying to stake a claim into housing they can't take away from us. Most of survive only on Social security, with small annuities as extras. One big emergency away from losing most everything. I know I dearly want right now to move to a Blue State, but have neither the money nor the physical stamina to do it... let alone the money to buy a house in a blue state to get settled in. That's the kind of logistics I'm talking about. Housing is exorbitant in Blue States I know about, as compared to the Midwest, where I'm currently stuck. But gods, how I'd love to be someplace where my vote would finally count for something! Where I could walk down the sidewalk and actually strike up a conversation with someone of my own kind! To go the movies and not wonder who in the theater is "packing" and could shoot up the place! Talk about feeling like you're already in heaven! Yes, it would mean giving everything I've got to get there, and accepting all the help I could get to get it done... but I'd do it in a heartbeat. Colder weather on these old bones and all!

But beyond that, there are other issues that would have to be worked out. Military treaties, land grants, water rights, etc. It would be a hell of a set of treaties to work, and we'd have to check, recheck, and check again on every single one of them to ensure we didn't get taken like the Native Americans. Because we couldn't trust one work the R's said as truth or honest dealing.

But I'd feel a whole lot better about the future if we'd attempt something like this. I may be feeling older than dirt right now, but I'm not willing to give up my future if I can help it. If the R's take away the Vote and the Election and turn it over to the Legislature, we're doomed. No hyperbole. Kansas will never see another Blue rep for anything. We'll never get out of religious law. We still don't have medical marijuana. At that rate, we'll never have it, just to illustrate one small thing. The Big R's will kill Social Security and starve us Elders out of our homes and set us on a wandering route for food... or suicide. I don't see any other way for survival. We won't pack the courts. We won't use the Constitution to rein in the SCOTUS Judicial Review powers. It seems we don't have any representatives who listen to us as we scream bloody murder - before, as, or after we vote... and now it seems the R's will take that vote away from us. It's time for a reset of some kind. Dividing the country may be that reset both sides need, IMNSHO.

Hekate

(90,674 posts)
49. Once again: there is no Mason-Dixon Line in 2022. Every Blue state has big patches of Red...
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 07:41 PM
Jul 2022

…and vice versa. You think those people will happily give up their jobs, houses, neighborhoods, and land for this idea?

For reference, please look up the India/Pakistan partition, which was supposed to solve that pesky Hindu vs Muslim problem once and for all. The streets flowed with blood as neighbor suddenly looked at neighbor as a deadly enemy.

greymattermom

(5,754 posts)
60. What should folks who live in the ATL metro do?
Sun Jul 3, 2022, 08:51 AM
Jul 2022

We are deep blue to purple and are 60% of the state's population. And the airport.

wnylib

(21,447 posts)
54. Shared military between two separate nations
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 10:43 PM
Jul 2022

who separated because they could not get along together? Not possible.

Separation, civil war, or revolution - seems like one of them is inevitable if some major changes in political climate don't happen.

But even separation might not solve the problems. Republicans are belligerent and aggressive. They would constantly be fighting over territory and resources.

BadgerMom

(2,771 posts)
14. Besides being scared (I'm there!), what can we do?
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 01:16 PM
Jul 2022

Donate time, donate money, get others to vote, call those who represent us. But I long for leadership, for a party operative or, especially an elected official, who has a plan to stop this. Ideally, such a plan would already be drawn up and in play. I don’t think it is, though. So who has a plan to fight this and can rally us around it? Once we get the people to the polls and the votes in Congress, what’s the plan and who will be bold enough to face off against the evils we face—Republicans, sure, but also, the organized money and hatred that stand behind them. The time for bonhomie, moderation and deal making is long behind us. I’m looking for a leader who recognizes that and can point a way forward. Otherwise these warnings just scare me senseless at this point.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
24. A true set back for sure, but the "END of the world" is hyperbole.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 01:56 PM
Jul 2022

Will all the trees suddenly die? Will the birds and other animals all die?
The doomy-gloomy attitude will get us nowhere fast. We need to overcome the set backs.
Remember the Civil Rights Movement? You got to Keep on Pushing!

summer_in_TX

(2,738 posts)
41. Beschloss may be right (and Winslow)
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 05:27 PM
Jul 2022
Lauren Peikoff
@laurenpeikoff
.
@BeschlossDC
on SCOTUS deciding to take up the case on state authority over elections: “There’s a possibility that we may have seen our last fair and free presidential election.”


The 2024 election may well be run under a new scheme of the Independent State Legislative Doctrine if SCOTUS rules that way. Therefore 2022 becomes even more critical than we already thought.

We must retain both houses and increase our majority in the Senate.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
42. Dumno about the end of the world, but it sure would change things..
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 05:39 PM
Jul 2022

We did, in the early days, not elect the Senate-- it was elected by state legislators. Turns out that was a lousy idea and we got the 17th Amendment allowing direct election of Senators.

No, direct election of the President wasn't included.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
46. It will be the end of the United States.
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 07:04 PM
Jul 2022

In states with respectable electoral systems, why would we stay for this shit?

We won’t.

Rhiannon12866

(205,316 posts)
47. Presidential historian Michael Beschloss said the same thing on MSNBC last night:
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 07:28 PM
Jul 2022
'The Week That Changed America' - The 11th Hour - MSNBC
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017747213

Cha

(297,196 posts)
50. Rt🤷‍♂️💕TY & Don Winslow..
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 08:43 PM
Jul 2022
I say could be the beginning of a Civil War between Fascists & those Fighting FOR Democracy!

Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

Cha

(297,196 posts)
51. I'm thinking Civil War.. the Possibility
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 08:56 PM
Jul 2022

anyway.

Why would We The People Stand for this?! Fascism Lording Over US via the Extremists on the SCOTUS?:

Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

G_j

(40,367 posts)
55. Indeed
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 11:03 PM
Jul 2022

Truly scary. It’s like the right has become the freaking Borg. What will do if we lose this one?

pecosbob

(7,538 posts)
57. Draft fairness guidelines for federal elections...nuke the filibuster if necessary.
Sun Jul 3, 2022, 06:01 AM
Jul 2022

If your State doesn't meet federal guidelines your Senators and Representatives don't get voting privileges.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Tweet by Don Winslow. I t...