North Carolina Looks to Remove Public EV Chargers, Probably to the Trash (Not from the Onion)

[PdamnedQ]

A bill currently in the works in the North Carolina legislature would allocate $50,000 to get rid of free public EV chargers unless free gas pumps are built alongside.

Politicians have to run on some kind of platform, and Ben Moss—my incoming state House representative here in North Carolina's District 52—decided that his animating principle is Being Mad at Electricity.

To prove his animosity toward this invisible menace, he's sponsoring House Bill 1049, which would allocate $50,000 to destroy free public car chargers.

It contains some other enlightened ideas, but that's the main theme: We've simply got to do something about these free public chargers, even if it costs us $50,000!

Those things cost tens of cents per hour, when they're being used.

-More at link-

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40543385/north-carolina-wants-remove-free-public-ev-chargers/

This is why we can't have nice things.

[XanaDUer2]

1. Nc is schizophrenic nt

[nolabear]

20. It has always been!

I lived there in the 70s-early 80s. Mr Bear was born and raised there. His family was pretty prominent and liberal and we were in the Research Triangle where all three universities and the tech industry was. It’s very liberal, and yet very conservative. Even the native NCers vary. The government is like that too.

Georgia is also that way. I have hope for both.

[bullwinkle428]

2. I wonder if Elon Musk will have anything to say about this?

Given his recent, budding love affair with far-right crazies.

[Wounded Bear]

4. I'm sure he hates that they're free...

nothing triggers a capitalist like "free shit."

[MichMan]

10. Nothing is free

The cost is just paid by someone else.

[hunter]

21. It's a wonder any humans survived before money was invented...

... and the air factories were built.

[LoisB]

3. If his objection is that the use of the chargers is free, why not just charge for usage?

[getagrip_already]

13. yeah, a $0.0001 per kwh should do it. just drop a penny in the slot. no change issued....

It ain't free if it costs a penny. You don't even need to change the pump. Just put a coin jar on it.

[LoisB]

17. Right?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

5. Good.

I don't get the logic of free EV chargers, and not free gas.

The cost of electric cars is insane, well beyond most people, myself included. And if the cost of charging is so cheap, then people can just do it at home. Oh, right, they want to go on trips away from home. Well, there should still be a charge. Putting those chargers in place wasn't free.

Another issue is that gasoline taxes also go towards maintaining roads, and electric cars are simply not paying their share. Another good reason to charge for public EV charges.

[PdamnedQ]

7. I'm sure our policy makers will find a way to fix the tax base.

And as to affordability here's an example:

https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-sale/listing/1G1FW6S05H4143399/2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev/?zipcode=76131

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

19. That is merely an ad for a Chevy Bolt.

Does it come in a stick shift? That might possibly tempt me, although I see no point in spending money for a replacement car when I'm perfectly happy with the one I currently drive, a 2017 Honda Fit, purchased in 2018. Standard transmission.

Certainly, as time goes on, used EVs will come on the market at good prices. But were I to, say purchase that specific car the link goes to, I wonder just how long it would take me to save that $21k in gas, even if the charging were totally free to me?

Let's see, in 2020 I started keeping track of my gas purchases in a little notebook I keep in the car. The 2020 amount was extremely lwo, so I won't even post that here. I didn't take any of my normal long-range trips that year. But 2021 started getting back to normal, and I spent a whopping $352.35 for gas. Because of higher gas prices, as well as more long-distance trips, at the beginning of June I'd already spent $375.22. Let's say my gas costs actually go up to $900 - $1,000 a year. It would take 20 years to get back the cost of that car, at least in terms of gas costs. I'm 73. If I were 23, or even 53, I'd probably think seriously about an EV for my next car. But not until I'm ready to give up my current one.

I do tend to keep my vehicles for a fairly long time. The one I had before the Fit I kept 11 years. My expectation is that at some point I will stop driving, and either be in an independent/assisted living place, or make use of things like Uber, or senior ride things rather than drive myself.

[PdamnedQ]

23. Sorry, you that you think that I'm a shill for GM.

However, since they are the biggest car manufacturer in the world it's kind of hard to ignore them. Still, if you click around on the site I linked to I'm sure you can find lots of other brands.

Presently, I'm saving my pennies to buy an electric Hyundai with under 50'000 miles. Or, I already have enough saved to convert my little Tucson into an electric. It has around 230,000 miles on it and a new speedy motor would be a kick in the butt.

I just need to find the time do the job, and if I do the conversion I'll get keep it's adorable little stick shift. Even though it won't matter if it's there, or not.

I'm waiting until I get to $20,000 before I make my decision.

You see I don't really care what I drive in the future as long as it is electric and gets the job done. Because the bottom line is that I pretty much hate everything about dinosaur juice. And by everything I mean the smell, the damage it does to our environment, the wars it spawns, and the fuckheads that sell it, etcetera.

In my opinion the world would have been a better place without John D. Rockefeller in it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

26. No, no, no, no, no. I do NOT see that link is your being a shill for GM.

I just wanted to point out that the link simply took me to one specific EV that's for sale. What make or model wasn't that important, and I'm truly sorry if it seemed as though that was my complaint.

While I don't happen to be a fan of GM cars, I know lots of others are, so I'm not about to trash them.

My point was that my current vehicle, a 2017 Honda Fit, gets pretty good gas mileage, and I can't buy an EV (even though that Volt looks like a pretty good deal) without incurring more cost in the long run than sticking with my current car.

Don't know how old you are, but I'm 73, and age matters here. My current car is easily good for another ten years (barring an accident) and so I see no point in replacing it. If something like that were to happen, I'd go for a hybrid, so long as I can get one with a stick shift.

I have only ever driven manual transmissions my entire driving life, other then when renting a car, which is why I more and more avoid needing to rent one. Among the reasons I drive fearlessly, is that I know if some idiot were to try to steal my car, he wouldn't get six feet because it's a manual.

I also like small cars.

Anyway, it does sound like you are like me and pay cash for a car. Good for you.

[PdamnedQ]

29. No worries.

The switch to electric is going a lot faster than most anticipated. I think are out manual drive cars are going to be considered quaint about 30 minutes from now.

Consider this I have a friend that lives in a little town outside of Dublin, Ireland. She's told me that the local council is considering buying self driving cars that are on demand. It's a few years off, but they are serious about the notion because it will help solve a lot of parking and congestion issues.

It's kind of like a Roomba, but for people.

Meaning you text for the car on your phone and it comes to you up. Then it either waits, or goes to pick up someone else, or heads back to it's charging station. Pretty wild huh?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

31. This is sort of like, I forget what they are or were called,

cars in the DC area that my sister used to use. Admittedly, they weren't self-driving, but she could sign up for one, go to a place where they were available, get her car, and drive.

She didn't own a car, and didn't often need one herself, but when she did, that was very convenient.

I am a HUGE fan of public transportation. When I first lived in the DC area starting in late 1968, I didn't have a car and took the bus to and from work. The subway was being built, not yet operational. I loved the public transportation, especially as the busses operated very late and very early. I lived in Alexandria, VA, and worked at DCA, National Airport, as an airline ticket agent. I spent all of my spare money on travel. It's somewhat important to know that we airline employees flew essentially for free (complicated system of free passes and passes that had a fee and various things called interline tours) but could go literally all over the world for not much money.

I was single. Travel was a huge priority for me. Because our pay scales were public within the industry, we all knew what each other made, excluding things like how much overtime someone might make. More than once a fellow employee asked me, "Poindexter, how can you afford all these trips?" I'd invariably reply, "I don't own a car."

I finally bought a car in 1976 when I decided to take classes at the local community college, and the logistics of taking the bus to school, then getting back home, and then to work, were simply too difficult. A co-worker had a '69 VW Beetle which was perfect for me.

I can no longer recall the bus fare back then, but it was under a dollar each way. Often, a fellow employee would give me a ride home, which was always nice. But even at a dollar a day, twice a day, was under thirty bucks a month. You couldn't buy or maintain a car for that.

I am actually looking forward to giving up driving at some point. Santa Fe, where I live, has a semi-okay bus system, which I've used. They also have a Senior Ride thing, which I have not used, but will if I am still here when I stop driving. I would prefer to move to a city with much better public transportation.

I am very frustrated that so many Americans won't even consider public transportation, even when it is in their best interest. Sigh.

[Jack the Greater]

33. Today, GM is fourth largest in terms of number of vehicles sold

They may have been Numero Uno back in the day, but today that honor goes to Volkswagen.

[PdamnedQ]

52. Through partnerships in China.

GM is the largest car manufacturer in the world by units sold, primarily within China. China has lots of people.

Globalization has made strange bedfellows.

[getagrip_already]

14. in many cases....

they are provided by employers as perks, but anyone could use them.

In other cases, they actually reduce the need to call tow trucks when you get stuck in an area that doesn't have chargers. Stranded vehicles along roadways are never good for transportation systems.

In all cases, they are slow chargers which take hours to fully charge a vehicle. Most would opt to find a fast charging station if one is available.

[karynnj]

18. Not all people can charge at home

Many apartments and other multiple family units do not have the capacity or place to install home chargers. I do agree with you that the chargers should be retrofit to charge people. That charge could pay for the electricity used and possibly include a tax to go to the same fund as the gas taxes.

It is also true that gas vehicles do not pay the full cost that their carbon usage costs.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

27. Interesting point.

I wonder why someone who can't have a home charger would buy an EV?

[PdamnedQ]

32. Check this out :)

https://www.currently.app/

Round and round the wheel goes......

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

35. Interesting, but I suspect of very limited use.

So much would depend on exactly where you live.

I suppose that in terms of EV charging we are a lot like it must have been for the early cars prior to perhaps 1910 or so, when few gas stations existed. I expect that motorists who went on what, was for then, long drives, carried containers of gasoline with them. Eventually gas stations became common, people drove and drove.

Something similar is now happening. People are used to driving and driving. The time required to recharge an electric car is currently an issue. I'm sure that at some point in the future, it will not be an issue. It will be a lot like getting gas currently is.

But we do not currently live in that utopia, and I am quite happy with my gas powered Honda Fit, thank you very much.

[karynnj]

44. They might have bought it before they moved

I thought of this for two reasons. One was that by coincidence, Vermont public radio had a show about an initiative to get more public EV chargers in areas where this is a problem. The other reason was that the condo that I live in does not have sufficient electrical capacity in the detached garages, where several garages are on the same circuit, for electrical chargers. The cost to upgrade garage capacity is pretty steep and only the association has the power to do it. A few years ago, they installed two metered chargers where people could reserve time slots, charge and pay. Burlington Electric had grants that covered a good part of installing it and they had the software needed for charging etc and we got one. It is currently priced to break even for the association. The long term plan was to have at least 2 more sets of 2 chargers, but that will happen only when they see from the software that people are having trouble getting slots when they want them.

Still, when we look for a new car, we might get what two daughters have - hybrids which will be good through whatever transition happens.

[tinrobot]

25. Do you also complain about free parking, free refills, free concerts, free lunch?

Because they're not much different. Those things also cost someone else money.

If someone wants to spend the money to put up a free charger, then that's their right.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

28. No. Because those are very different.

Speaking of free parking. I live in Santa Fe, NM, where those running the city seem to think that cars are a passing fad, and will soon go away. The lack of public parking is abysmal.

I used to live near Kansas City, Missouri. Both of these cities have a Plaza, which is something of a heart and soul for each city. Yes, they are quite different, but have certain similarities. In KCMO, all the parking is free. Free. No charge. And there is a lot of it. I wish the two mayors would talk to each other, so that the mayor here might understand the value of free parking. Oh, and the amazing and wonderful mayor of Kansas City, Quinton Lucas, also made all the public transportation free.

Another thing that should be free is school lunches, for everyone.

And I like free concerts when I get to one.

Free EV charging is a different thing altogether. It's bad enough that there are ludicrous tax incentives for the very well off people who buy EVs. They should at least pay whatever the cost of charging their vehicle is. Just as I pay for gas.

[Ron Green]

36. Free parking, among other car-centric features, killed the soul of Kansas City -

one of America’s great cities. Halting efforts are being made there and elsewhere to bring back “walkability,” but it’s probably too late.

When I first lived in Santa Fe in the early 70’s there was lots of free parking, and you could drive all around the Plaza, even on Palace. Over time the city leaders realized this would kill the experience of tourists trying to visualize 1610, and sought to preserve a walkable place.

Later, as a local who lived out in Apache Cañon, I resented increased pricing for valuable parking downtown. Now, as I’ve thought this through, I understand that our use of cars should never be subsidized. As you well know, beyond South Capitol Santa Fe is just another suburb.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

38. These days, getting parking on the Plaza in Santa Fe is rather difficult.

Whatever free parking existed in Santa Fe in the early 70's is long since gone. I moved here in 2008, and was astonished at the lack of parking. As I've said, it's as if those running the city honestly think cars are a passing fad and will go way. Whenever I suggest building more parking garages, and making parking free, like in Kansas City, people will object, saying Won't those who work downtown take up those spaces? I point out that it's not as though the downtown workers are teleporting to work. They are already using up parking spaces.

And it's not as though tourists are going to take the bus into the Plaza. Unfortunately, most Americans are totally unused to any kind oif public transportation. I, myself, am an exception. Some years back, on a trip to Denver in the late 70s, I insisted we take the public bus, much to the dismay of my fellow travelers. But that was because I was already used to taking the public bus everywhere.

And in my opinion, free parking has made Kansas City more vibrant than ever. "Walkability" is a nice concept, but if you live fifteen miles away you are not going to walk there.

[Ron Green]

39. If you want free parking you can always go out on Cerrillos Road,

and then you might as well be in Albuquerque. I disagree that free (or even cheap) parking is a good thing. If you agree that the SF Plaza is one of the best spaces in America, you have to acknowledge that cars are only a detriment to it.

We have subsidized automobile use in this country for a hundred years (there’s lots of scholarship and research on this), and in the process killed many culturally rich and economically productive places. The sad part is that most Americans want it this way.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

40. Let's see, park in Albuquerque, walk to Santa Fe.

How far is that exactly? I know it takes me a good 45 minutes to drive.

So if you think free or cheap parking isn't a good thing, what exactly is your alternative?

Everyone should walk every where? When I was a kid in northern New York State, I regularly walked the two miles from our house to the small town near us to participate in the summer park programs. At other times I walked to or from that town.

Are you suggesting we all walk a couple of miles on a regular basis to get to and from whatever?

The SF Plaza is a wonderful place, and if the kind of parking that is available in Kansas City, Missouri, were available in Santa Fe, the SF Plaza would be better and far more usable than it currently is. Trust me. I know both cities.

[Ron Green]

41. Don't forget your bicycle! We can do this.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

42. Bicycle? What bicycle?

I'm 73 years old. I haven't ridden a bicycle in probably 50 years.

Let's simply have adequate parking in Santa Fe, and not pretend that cars are just a passing fancy.

[Ron Green]

43. I'll be 75 next birthday, and I try to do as many of my trips around town

on my bicycle. Maybe you’re not willing to stop any of your driving, but you ought to pay for your parking.

[PdamnedQ]

51. Just to be fair.

It's been around 96 degrees in Albuquerque for the last few days. I've known some pretty tough 73 year olds.

However, even at the age of 58, like myself, it could be suicide if I tried to ride a bike to work or do anything strenuous outside. And, if you knew what Albuquerque's streets are like you would probably quiver in fear.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

46. If there were better public transportation here, that would help enormously.

But the bus service is extremely limited, even though I've used it on occasion.

And the tourists are actually the main ones driving around the Plaza here in Santa Fe. The locals tend not to go there very much.

In Kansas City, people from all over the metro area go to the Plaza and can park. Again, parking for cars. What a novel idea.

[Ron Green]

47. There's much evidence that cars, and infrastructure for cars,

have taken away the productive quality of places. During the lives us baby-boomers, the world we now see was built to support a relentless consumerism that destroyed communities and neighborhoods.

I recommend http://strongtowns.org as a resource to learn about a better way forward for our land use and community planning.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

48. The first seven years that I lived in the Washington DC area I didn't own a car.

Took the bus everywhere. This was before the Metro opened, although it was being constructed. The only reason I finally acquired a car was that I wanted to start taking classes at the local community college, and it simply wasn't possible to get to school for a class, get back home in time to change into my work uniform, and then get to the airport.

When I moved to Minneapolis in 1982 and was doing temp work, I told the temp agency I would only take jobs I could get to on the bus.

I love public transportation and use it whenever feasible.

[Ron Green]

49. That's great, and as you've said yourself, many places

don’t have functioning public transportation. I like to say the U.S. was built on cheap gas and fear of other people - resulting, of course, in the suburban development experiment, which is now proving to be a not-very-successful model.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

50. It is important to know that the major car companies

bought up public transportation systems, especially trolley cars, in many cities, early in the 20th century to force people into cars.

More recently, the mayor of Kansas City, MO, Quinton Lucas, has made public transportation free of charge there. Hooray for him!

[SergeStorms]

6. As they slice off their noses...

in order to spite their faces.

They have no other pressing needs in North Carolina, District 52 than declaring war on clean, efficient, electric vehicles?

[Turbineguy]

8. Huffing Electricity

[fescuerescue]

9. We need lots more chargers in NC

But for some reason no companies want to build them here other than Tesla.

Since businesses don't see fit to build free ones, we need MORE government sponsered chargers, not fewer.

[MichMan]

12. Why would a business pay to build one if there are "free" ones available

Customers wouldn't pay to cover the costs of building them. I think that was the point of the legislation

[jmowreader]

11. You should read the bill. It's pretty funny.

https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2021/Bills/House/PDF/H1049v1.pdf

It does four things.

First, it requires that all state-owned EV chargers that provide free charging be set next to a pump offering free gasoline and diesel. It does not provide funding for this free gasoline and diesel.

Second, it imposes the same requirement on counties.

Third, it provides $50,000 for the removal of non compliant chargers. (Apparently “all state and county governments who install EV chargers shall equip them with credit card readers, and all profits derived from the use of these devices shall be transferred to the jurisdiction’s highway department and earmarked for highway maintenance” never occurred to them.)

The best one is at the top of the bill: all private businesses that have installed free EV chargers will be required to indicate on their receipts the prorata share of your purchase that went into operating the charger.

[Initech]

16. I'm sure the oil companies would love their product being given away for free!

[Initech]

15. Free gas pumps? Ha ha ha ha. Good luck with that one!

You know some right wing morons with big trucks and even bigger boats and RVs would abuse that privilege.

[rockfordfile]

22. Those right-wing pos are idiots. It just shows how corrupt the fossil fuel industry is with repukes

[Hermit-The-Prog]

24. I can't refine gasoline in my back yard. I can produce electricity, cheaply.

radical Republican extremists want to kill everything

[Demovictory9]

30. Wow

[CRK7376]

34. Of course my state goes stupid once again.....

Just as I start researching and building (Ford website) a new F150 Lightning, NC gets more stupid...You would think that the Repugs would learn something after their bathroom bill disaster ....No they want to continue polluting the planet.....

[ripcord]

37. They should charge them the going rate for electricity

[sarcasmo]

45. Idiocracy