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Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:25 PM

Amnesty International shits the bed.

Basically AI made accusations against the Ukrainian military which will serve to legitimize Russian terrorist bombings of civilian targets. They completely bypassed Ukrainian Amnesty officials. Already being used by Russia for propaganda.


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Secretary General of AI, Agnes Callamard, is doubling down and accusing all critics of being "trolls"


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If you are currently a supporter of AI you might want to consider ending that support and letting them know why.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Original post)


Response to Crunchy Frog (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:33 PM

2. haven't most civlians/children fled these areas??????

i mean, they are claiming Ukraine is setting up operations and launching attacks from schools? Okay, are there kids in the schools? Is the school occupied by children during this fighting? A school is just a building. if there aren't kids around who gives a fuck where an attack is launched from if you are trying to defend your country for a much larger attacker.

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Response to Takket (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:38 PM

6. There have been evacuation orders for months.

Some people refuse to leave their homes.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:35 PM

3. Is what they report accurate?

I support them reporting on war crimes without bias.

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Response to AZProgressive (Reply #3)


Response to AZProgressive (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:43 PM

9. Not according to the Ukrainian AI branch, or military experts.

It at least appears to be grossly oversimplified and lacking in context.

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Response to AZProgressive (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:43 PM

10. Not according to the Ukrainian branch

This was their (translated) response to AI's sidelining of them apparently


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Response to AZProgressive (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:46 PM

11. Adding this.


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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:51 PM

12. Thanks

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:38 PM

5. Confusing mismatch of facts and fiction.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:40 PM

7. Infuriating K&R

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:41 PM

8. Russians using Fascist tactics. Accusing the other of which you are guilty. Stalin's spinnin'.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:53 PM

13. And exactly why should someone trust you more than Amnesty International?

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Response to milestogo (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 08:38 PM

15. I'm not asking anyone to trust me.

I provided links to statements by people with knowledge and expertise, as well as prima facie evidence of Russia using it to further their propaganda narrative.

If you're interested you can find a whole lot more discussion than what I've posted here.

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Response to milestogo (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 09:46 PM

18. Maybe trust Jack Watling more than AI.

Senior Research Fellow - Land Warfare, Military Sciences, @RUSI_org. PhD History.



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Response to Crunchy Frog (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 08:08 PM

14. Ukraine doesn't get to choose where Russia decides to attack

I read some of this report. They actually suggest that instead of using civilian buildings in civilian areas, they should use buildings away from civilian areas or, at one point, it actually suggests Ukraine use "nearby woods" as a base of operation.

Absurd.

If Ukraine's military abandons these areas, what do they think russia is going to do to the civilians in those areas? Russia's goal is to capture the cities and you can't defend cities and the people in them from "nearby woods"

I do agree that Ukraine should not be setting up military operations in hospitals. you don't want to make a hospital a target. Though russia certainly has shown that they will bomb and kill ANY target regardless of what is in it.

They also claim:

"In the cases it documented, Amnesty International is not aware that the Ukrainian military who located themselves in civilian structures in residential areas asked or assisted civilians to evacuate nearby buildings a failure to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians."

Sorry, I don't believe that for a SECOND. Ukraine worked tirelessly to get people out of harms way when Russia invaded and i'm sure the people that CHOOSE to stay behind and defend their homes ARE WELL AWARE that a WAR is going on around them.

Fuck this bullshit, this report is a disgrace. You want Ukraine to stop fighting near civilians? TELL RUSSIA TO LEAVE. If it were me, I'd be happy to know people who want to defend my city are nearby and not "in the woods" since letting Russia roll into those areas is more likely to get me KILLED.

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Response to Takket (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 08:45 PM

16. The problem with AI UK is they claim to remain impartial.

Nobody should remain impartial about a terrorist state using barbarian methods and literally war crimes to violently take control of any sovereign nation to begin with.

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Response to Takket (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 08:48 PM

17. I've seen many posts by actual Ukrainian civilians near the combat areas

who say that they want the military to be close to them because it makes them feel more protected.

They know that this is primarily a war against civilians. They know that they will be targeted regardless, and they know what Russians do to people who come under their control.

AI is operating WAY outside of its area of expertise. They were a way better organization back when their focus was on political prisoners and the issues directly affecting them.

Trying to second guess the actions of a military in a country that's fighting for its survival against an openly genocidal aggressor doesn't suit them.

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