Can we stop referring to women by their husband's names when they do not use those names?

[mcar]

Look, I cannot stand Elaine Chao and do not hold much respect for Andrea Mitchell, but

Those are their names. Calling them "Mrs. Mitch McConnell" and "Mrs. Greenspan" is demeaning, dismissive and, yes, sexist.

Let's stop being sexist here on DU.

Thanks for reading.

Edited to add:

My point is not to say that women shouldn't take their husbands surnames, I did 37 years ago. That is a choice. It is when we use the man's surname when the woman in question does not. And when we use his first name "Mrs. Mitch McConnell" as well, when referring to the woman.

[hlthe2b]

1. Yes... (id their spouse if you think it important/relevent to know in parentheses)

[mcar]

3. Yes, that would work

Thanks.

[CurtEastPoint]

2. It's just calling attention to who has influence over them and what horrid choices they

made in choosing a spouse. I find DU overall the least sexist place I know.

[Meadowoak]

5. +1

[mcar]

6. It is sexist to assume that

the men have influence over them. It is sexist and demeaning to dismiss and degrade women, any women, by referring to them as if they are their husband's chattel and they don't even have the right to the names of their choice.

[mopinko]

14. you dont know it isnt the other way around.

[Takket]

15. +1 this is meant to call her out for her horrible choices. has nothing to do with her gender

[delisen]

23. Never saw anyone call Mc Connell Mr. Chao

Never saw anyone call Greenspan Mr. Mitchell.

[mcar]

24. Then call her out

Referring to her by some other name does not do that.

[obamanut2012]

37. "who who has influence over them"

WTAF did I just read.

[Caliman73]

41. DU may be the "least overall" sexist place...

That does not mean that there aren't elements of sexism that we shouldn't be addressing. Look, we all grow up bathing in racism and sexism, ableism, ageism, etc... It comes out in weird ways that we may not even be conscious of. If someone calls it out, instead of reflexively defending whatever you feel about a situation, instead maybe question... look inward and ask, "Could that be construed as ....?" If so, then just understand though it was not your intention, that again, we are swimming in all that stuff all the time.

I am sure that Elaine Chao and Mitch McConnell influence each other in equal ways. Chao comes from a very wealthy and powerful family and McConnell has gone to the mat to make sure that spoils of government have gone the family. That is Elaine influencing Mitch, but we don't hear "Mr. Elaine Chao" comments about McConnell, we only hear the opposite about Chao and about Andrea Mitchell and her marriage to Alan Greenspan. The characterization as a "one way" influence from the man to the woman IS sexist framing.

[mcar]

47. Well said!

Thank you.

[SharonClark]

61. Agree!

[gab13by13]

4. So sorry, I had no idea that was sexist,

I will delete my thread. Thanks for letting me know.

[mcar]

8. Thank you for this kind, thoughtful response

[iemanja]

7. It's the typical sexism

That many feel far too confident in displaying.

[mcar]

9. Yes

It's far too casual.

[Shrike47]

10. I WANT to go by my husband's name. I haven't gone by my birth name for 56 years.

Besides, a lot of women like to have the same last name as their children.

[onecaliberal]

12. 👆🏻

[mcar]

13. And that is your, and their, choice

It is not the choice of the two women I mentioned.

[CrispyQ]

16. Fine, but Chao & Mitchell chose otherwise & should be referred to by their chosen name. -nt

[SharonClark]

62. It really wasn't your choice unless your

husband considered changing his last name to your last name. Did he?

It’s a good thing you didn’t marry a second or third time and had kids with those husbands as well. So many last names to manage.

[TigressDem]

11. It's one of their hats.

I am Mrs. Xyozson and so is my MIL. I don't think it's particularly dismissive unless using it when describing some award they won.

AND if someone has a doctorate... or special title.

But a person is a parent, an employee, a sibling, a spouse. Many hats. Many titles.

IF THE PERSON has an issue.... then it's an issue.

[mcar]

20. It is dismissive if you use it when they don't

Again, these two women have chosen to not use their husband's names. Andrea Mitchell has been a journalist far longer than she's been married to Greenspan.

I took my husband's name when we married 37 years ago. If I were doing it again, I wouldn't. My choice. But I never liked being referred to as Mrs. man's name.

These 2 women, and many others, chose to not take their husband's surnames. To refer to them by those men's surnames serves no purpose but to demean them.

[TigressDem]

21. OK. Then I get it.

If these women expressed a preference, I am for it.

In general, I don't think it is meant in a dismissive manner automatically.

But yeah, if they are already well known, then use their proper name.

Like Dr Jill Biden.

[SharonClark]

63. Of course it's dismissive, that's the point.

[TigressDem]

64. I don't know everyone's preference.

But simply being referred to as being Mrs. So and So might not be dismissive to every married women. I am a very strong woman and proud of who I am. I also married a wonderful man and at times if someone calls me Mrs. W. SSDFD then I'm ok with it. Personally.

It might simply be how someone recognized who they were. But if people are doing it to be dismissive of someone's preference on purpose, then yes, wrong as hell.

Like I said before, it's a hat that person wears, not their person hood.

[Mr.Bill]

17. My wife never uses my first name,

but when we got married she insisted on using my last name. I left the choice up to her.

What I think is a little creepy is when a couple gets divorced and the woman continues to use his name.

[obamanut2012]

38. It isn't his just name, it's her name

It is her legal and personal name.

How ridiculous.

[Mr.Bill]

39. I am not understanding

exactly what you are saying.

[Arkansas Granny]

42. I kept my married name after my divorce. I had 4 kids with that name

and it was easier than having my name changed on everything.

[Mr.Bill]

46. Okay, I had not thought of that.

I was thinking of a certain relative who only has one kid, who was long ago married and uses her husband's name. She had a really terrible divorce and I don't know how she can continue to use that name 15 years later.

[Arkansas Granny]

52. My ex and I were able to declare a truce for the sake of the kids.

It was kind of rocky in the beginning, but we eventually reached the point where the kids didn't have to worry about which one of us to invite to family functions. His last wife and I were on friendly terms and I even got a mention in his obituary.

[Mr.Bill]

55. That's good you were able to do that.

[marybourg]

49. By that time it has become * her* name, and maybe it's her

childrens’ name, and maybe she is known in her industry/profession by that name. Having changed her name once, especially in this Patriot Act era, is enough for many women. Nothing “creepy” about it. Just practicality.

[mopinko]

18. i think it's notable that this doesnt happen w matlin and carville.

but yeah. as someone who kept my own name through 2 hubs. dont even call me mrs unless you want a short, sharp lecture.

[lisa58]

19. I never took my husband's name..

Because he told me not to. I married you - not someone who needs to turn into me. He’s gone nearly 4 years- I couldn’t love him more, but I will ❤️

[niyad]

22. A most excellent point. Just now, thinking about them and their marital

choices. . . .the images rendered it unlikely that I will be eating dinner.

[mcar]

25. Yeah. Yuck.

[MLAA]

26. Women should be referred to by their legal name whether they chose their spouse's name or not.

I like the suggestion of putting spouses name in parentheses if / when you think it is pertinent to the post.

[mcar]

27. I think it is a very good idea

[Skittles]

28. nothing says unequal like giving up your identity

no indeed

[mcar]

29. But they didn't give up their identity

People here are doing that.

[Skittles]

30. I'm saying in general

one man "giving" his daughter away to another man, and she takes his name - it's crazy how many women go along with such sexist nonsense

[mcar]

32. I'm surprised at how many Young women

still do it.

I did, 37 years ago, but wouldn't today.

My 2 nieces both took their husband's names. My DIL did not.

[Skittles]

33. when they do it

then complain about inequality, I just want to shake them.....WAKE THE FUCK UP

[mcar]

35. There's more to inequality than a name, though

I don't think we'd say the same re Chasten Buttigieg.

[Skittles]

40. I absolutely do say the same

it's ridiculous

[mcar]

44. Ok, fair enough

[Skittles]

58. yee haw!

[gab13by13]

31. One thing in my defense,

I did not type Mrs. Alan Greenspan, I typed Mrs. Greenspan. I did not realize she never took her husband's last name.

For example, people on MSNBC still say Betsy Woodruff and some say Betsy Swan, and some say Betsy Woodruff/Swan. She doesn't seem to mind and I have no idea which she prefers.

[mcar]

34. Is Andrea Mitchell's show

"The Greenspan Report?" As I said earlier, she's been a journalist longer than she's been married to Greenspan.

Betsy's name is her choice. I've seen it as "Woodruff Swan." Her choice.

[obamanut2012]

36. I have been fighting this fight on here for more than a decade

I hate it, too.

No one says Mr. Elaine Chao, etc. Ever.

[mcar]

48. That's right

[gulliver]

43. I think it should be left almost always an uncalled foul and a "good no-call"

Adults are entitled to throw shade on other adults. If, by calling Elaine Chao "Mrs. Mitch McConnell," you mean to imply she's under his thumb or vice versa, you're allowed to do that. If you're just trying to imply that she has no personal worth of her own and that she would be a nobody if she weren't married to Mitch McConnell, I think you're allowed to do that too. It's seldom a sexist jibe, imo. You'll hear people using the same formulation about men too. Some people might be offended when it occurs, but we all have to tolerate being offended off and on.

[mcar]

45. I've been here since 2002

and have no recollection of anyone ever referring to a man by his wife's name. Ever.

I stand by my OP. It's sexist.

[Mr.Bill]

53. How about Jarvanka?

Or, althought I've never seen it here, calling Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie Brangelina.

[mcar]

56. Jarvanka is a combination of their names

as is Brangelina. Those are cutesy, celebrity-type nicknames.

It's quite a bit different than "Mrs. Jared Kushner" and "Mrs. Brad Pitt," isn't it?

[Mr.Bill]

57. Of course it is. n/t

[BlueLucy]

50. Good learning post of us all. nt

[mcar]

51. Thanks

[DFW]

54. Correct or not.....

My wife, on this board, at least, remains "Mrs. DFW." I do not need her deluged with hate mail/calls instigated by Republican trolls who lurk here.

[mcar]

59. And that is her choice, isn't it?

How would she, and you, feel if her user name on this board was Sue Jones, but people called her "Mrs. DFW?"

[DFW]

65. She would never post on, or even look at this board, so it doesn't matter, does it? n/t

[mcar]

66. I was making a point

and you did say that on this board she was "Mrs. DFW" which led me to believe she does post here under that name.

I see that you meant you refer to her in that way.

Which really has nothing to do with my OP, does it?

[DFW]

67. It protects her privacy. She couldn't care less how a bunch of Americans refer to her. n/t

[mcar]

68. OK

Andrea Mitchell, Elaine Chao, and millions of other women, who also are not on DU, have chosen to not go by Mrs. followed by their husband's names.

When people on DU, or elsewhere, refer to those women only by Mrs. followed by their husband's name, they are denigrating and demeaning those women in a sexist manner.

Andrea Mitchell is a biased reporter. Elaine Chao is a corrupt Republican hack. See, it is possible for one to express one's opinion of a woman without resorting to sexist tactics.

That is the point of my OP. How you choose to reference your spouse here isn't.

[Bluesaph]

60. I like Latin American custom

Of women keeping our names.

[ecstatic]

69. Is it OK to call them motherfuckers?

I dunno... Republicans (or rethugs as I prefer to call them) tend to get called names on this site. The names you mentioned are pretty tame.

[mcar]

70. So calling Lindsay Graham "Miss Lindsay"

would be OK?