Who told Trump which documents to steal?

[RAB910]

[burrowowl]

1. Yes, who?

[gab13by13]

2. DOJ needs to be investigating who physically stole, copied, the documents.

Who was involved in transferring the documents from SCIFs to cardboard boxes?

[RAB910]

5. Yeah, this was a conspiracy rather than the act of a lone traitor

[FarPoint]

18. I imagine they have a strong idea....

They will need to have hard evidence to make it all stick....

[Kid Berwyn]

3. His gut.

Official TASS Foto

[RAB910]

6. Not a paper to be found other than a phone note pad, not even an inbox

[gab13by13]

13. Try looking in Sergei's pockets.

[Kid Berwyn]

20. Talking Head said PDB briefers tried dioramas to hold his interest.

[Harker]

27. Twilight Zone action figures!

Is there a little Burgess Meredith with broken glasses?

[Kid Berwyn]

34. Henry Bemis

‘S outta stock. Rats. What Borges said in my sig line.

[Harker]

43. That's delightful.

Having spent the bulk of my working life in second hand bookshops, I'd be happy to join you and Borges.

[Kid Berwyn]

49. Thank you! Same goes for me!

Whether next to his BarcaLounger or outside the window on the wing of his secondhand jet, here are a few examples of what I wish would materialize to haunt Dimdonnie’s every waking moment:



https://www.wired.com/2007/05/hieronymous-bos/

So that one day, Dimdonnie, to his shame, enlightenment.



Eternal shame.

[Harker]

62. Spare the Rod, spoil the child.

We've come a long way since Barbie and Ken.

Love Bosch.

[colorado_ufo]

58. Nice shot of the former president and

his vice president.

[Kid Berwyn]

60. Seeing KGB in Oval Office got me out of retirement, I was so steamed.

In the Oval Office in the merry month of May 2017

President Trump gestures to Russia's ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Kislyak, as he speaks to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in the Oval Office on Wednesday, May 10, 2017. (Alexander Shcherbak/TASS/Getty Images)

“I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job," Trump said, according to The Times. "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off.”



"I'm not under investigation," he added.

Sources:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/10/527755991/trump-meets-with-russias-lavrov-at-the-white-house-today

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-nut-job-james-comey-russia-2017-5

DU DEFCON Orange original: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212103467

[tblue37]

4. Jared.

[Jarqui]

17. +1

[twodogsbarking]

33. +1.2

[tavernier]

7. Whoever was shopping.

[Tickle]

8. We would first

need to know what is in the boxes. Speculation is fun, I must admit. 😀
We still need to know what was in the boxes from there we should be able to figure out who may have helped. although 19 months later I can't imagine what is left

[RAB910]

9. I have to think the former traitor and chief sold/gave away copies while keeping the originals

[Tickle]

12. Why?

In case the FBI came by for returns?

If he was smart enough to get the boxes out of the white house but too dumb to know what to do with them?
Why hasn't he been arrested? Why am I the only one asking questions,?

[RAB910]

14. Sell it multiple times would be my guess, plus knowledge is power

why give it away even if sold? I don't the egomaniac ever thought he would be the subject of an FBI search warrant

[The Bopper]

30. Upon looking at his history

Trump would NEVER give up his leverage on anyone, if it would possibly be needed later. What would surprise me is if he stored the “best stuff “ that close to him. Since we’re all just guessing right now, my guess it’s in a safe at one of his off-shore properties where the government there wouldn’t cooperate. Dubai anyone?

[Tickle]

35. woo that's a juicy thought

I never thought that the docs could be in another country. Which makes me ask
, who brought them to Dubai? FedEX? UPS? who (assuming they did go to another country)

BTW welcome to DU you'll like it here it's a place you can debate with people while making friends and enjoying the read.

[lanlady]

10. that's a critical question

I posted on another thread just now - were the documents selected purposefully or did Trump's flunky (assuming it was Kash Patel) grab whatever he could lay his hands on indiscriminately?

Inquiring minds wanna know!

[Tickle]

37. kash Patel? I keep

reading his name and I could google it or ask you who is he?

[wnylib]

42. According to reports, the documents

were stamped SCI, indicating a much higher security level than top secret. According to former CIA director John Brennan, such documents are kept so secure that there are designated handlers who keep them locked and personally handle them when an authorized person asks to review them. Access authorization is very limited. The handler remains with the documents until the authorized person who requested them is finished with them. Then the handler locks them up again.

These docs are so restricted that they are not ever uploaded to any device, system, or server, not even encrypted ones.

So, a handler had to be involved in order to get the documents out of lock and key. A knowledgeable person had to be involved in order to know which documents to take. Trump had to have had, at the very minimum, 2 people helping him.

Since handlers have such a unique position in government, their names are known. Since access to viewing the documents is restricted, there should be a short list of people knowledgeable enough to choose the kind of documents that Trump wanted.

[gab13by13]

46. You are describing life in a normal administration.

It sure looks like DOJ should be talking to the handlers, I mean it appears they must have been involved.

[wnylib]

48. If handlers were not following

required security procedures, then they are as culpable as Trump. I know that Trump had no regard for security, but if things were so out of control that the handlers could not do their jobs, it was up to them to report the situation. Considering the chain of command in the WH, or lack of one, the best bet for the handlers would have been to resign first and then report the problem to a Democrat in Congress. No Republican would ever have followed through on the information, but a Dem would have

[LiberalArkie]

51. Report it to who? A democrat in power with no compromat on them/ Probably

very hard to find. Look at Al Franken. They are all afraid of what the NSA etc had on them and then given to Trump.

[wnylib]

55. What if Nancy Pelosi had been informed of the security situation?

Last edited Sat Aug 13, 2022, 12:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Or a Dem Senator like Elizabeth Warren?

The kind of people who would raise hell about it.

[LiberalArkie]

63. Do you really think that there is anyone in congress that hasn't said the wrong thing

on a phone call, or advised a kin folk on what stock to buy?

[wnylib]

66. ??

[LiberalArkie]

67. Total Information Awareness program run after 9/11. They recorded everything.

[Farmer-Rick]

52. The info is now in the hands of most every foreign enemy of the US.

Just assume that now. That info is in Saudi's, Putin's North Korea's and China's hands. Just assume that and just do damage control. There is no other option.

Did they honestly think Trump would not sell the US down the river for wealth? From the moment he stepped into the White House he started feeding our secrets to our enemies.

Why would anyone think he wouldn't have? Nothing in his character indicates he would put country over his own personal wealth.

He made fun of military members for risking their lives to defend the constitution and our country. That is who Trump really is. He told us all.

[imanamerican63]

11. Nobody in his immediate family!

With the exception of Baron! Non of them are smart enough to understand the importance of the papers! Flynn & Bannon are the two that mostly likely are the ones?

[gab13by13]

15. Flynn and Bannon may have told him what to steal,

but they would not have access to where the documents were secured.

[BumRushDaShow]

19. Don't forget Bolton

who worked in there for a year as NatSec Advisor after McMaster left.

I don't think he would have screwed with the stuff but I think he might have retrieved things for briefings and someone ELSE kept some of it.

[wnylib]

47. I have thought about someone else keeping

SCI documents that were brought out for viewing by a person with access to the docs. But there is the problem of protocol in handling these documents. The handler, who is in charge of keeping them locked and secure, is required to remain with the docs and to lock them up again after the person who requested them is through with them.

So how could somebody keep some of the documents out? The handler would know if some were missing. The handler would be present with the documents while they were out of their locked storage area.

How could somebody keep documents without the complicity of the handler?

[BumRushDaShow]

53. I posted about a particular "problem" in another thread (will repost the article excerpt below)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2955755

Officials rejected Jared Kushner for top secret security clearance, but were overruled

Jared Kushner was rejected for a top-secret clearance by two career security specialists, but their supervisor overruled them and approved him, sources say.

Jan. 24, 2019, 8:14 PM EST / Updated Jan. 24, 2019, 10:17 PM EST
By Laura Strickler, Ken Dilanian and Peter Alexander

WASHINGTON — Jared Kushner's application for a top-secret clearance was rejected by two career White House security specialists after an FBI background check raised concerns about potential foreign influence on him — but their supervisor overruled the recommendation and approved the clearance, two sources familiar with the matter told NBC News. The official, Carl Kline, is a former Pentagon employee who was installed as director of the personnel security office in the Executive Office of the President in May 2017.

Kushner's was one of at least 30 cases in which Kline overruled career security experts and approved a top-secret clearance for incoming Trump officials despite unfavorable information, the two sources said. They said the number of rejections that were overruled was unprecedented — it had happened only once in the three years preceding Kline's arrival. The sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information, said the Trump White House attracted many people with untraditional backgrounds who had complicated financial and personal histories, some of which raised red flags.

Kushner's FBI background check identified questions about his family's business, his foreign contacts, his foreign travel and meetings he had during the campaign, the sources said, declining to be more specific. The White House office only determines eligibility for secret and top-secret clearances. As a very senior official, Kushner was seeking an even higher designation that would grant him access to what is known as "sensitive compartmented information," or SCI. That material makes up the government's most sensitive secrets, including transcripts of intercepted foreign communications, CIA source reporting and other intelligence seemingly important for Kushner, whose job portfolio covers the Mideast and Mexico.

The CIA is the agency that decides whether to grant SCI clearance to senior White House officials after conducting a further background check. After Kline overruled the White House security specialists and recommended Kushner for a top-secret clearance, Kushner's file then went to the CIA for a ruling on SCI. After reviewing the file, CIA officers who make clearance decisions balked, two of the people familiar with the matter said. One called over to the White House security division, wondering how Kushner got even a top-secret clearance, the sources said. Top-secret information is defined as material that would cause "exceptionally grave damage" to national security if disclosed to adversaries.

(snip)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/officials-rejected-jared-kushner-top-secret-security-clearance-were-overruled-n962221

I remember all the initial reports about the clearance issue back in 2017/2018 and suddenly these "clearances" finally "happening". So who knows HOW bad it was and if any of the records have been preserved about these "clearance overrides".

There were numerous OPs on DU back in 2017 showing how cavalier files were being treated - e.g., here - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141698066

That OP had this tweet -

Link to tweet

Martin Heinrich
@MartinHeinrich
·
Follow
Never leave a key in a classified lockbag in the presence of non-cleared people. #Classified101 (Original Photo @AP https://wpo.st/sAia2)
Image
4:01 PM · Feb 10, 2017

[wnylib]

59. OK, thanks. That sheds some light on the problem.

If Kushner got the security clearance for access to SCI documents, that would allow him to see them. However, it still takes a handler to unlock them for people with authorized access to view them, with the handler standing next to the documents the whole time and returning them to lock and key afterward.

BUT......Since Trump managed to get unqualified people cleared for high level security, he could have appointed someone loyal to him as a handler for SCI documents - preferably someone with enough knowledge to know which documents were the ones that Trump wanted.

That person should be traceable. There is a limited number of people with SCI level access. The names of the SCI document handlers who are responsible for guarding the documents should be available. The number of people on that list should be limited, too.

So, go down the two lists of names in an investigation.

[BumRushDaShow]

64. "he could have appointed someone loyal to him as a handler for SCI documents"

And this is probably what happened. The article mentioned "at least 30 cases" of clearance "overrides" and there could have easily been more, particularly if people came and went during that administration (the staffing was always a revolving door). And it wouldn't be surprising if there were veteran employees who were dedicated MAGats ready and willing to "contribute to the cause".

So yeah, I am sure they are working through who all those people are/were, from what should have been some kind of log of who checked out what and when.

[Heather MC]

16. Stephen Miller🤔

[gab13by13]

21. Good choice

[BumRushDaShow]

22. He's probably one of the culprits

[doc03]

23. Flynn, Pompeo, Bannon nt

[kentuck]

24. I read somewhere that he had his aides bring the boxes to him....

..and he went thru them individually. He knew what he wanted and he knew what he was going to do with them.

But, personally, I could not see him doing something like this by himself, without the help of his son-in-law, Jared, and perhaps others?

[EnergizedLib]

25. So

If he didn’t know which documents he was taking, or what to take, he didn’t know, didn’t return them....

At the very best, the most generous of at to put it, is he’s not qualified or intellectually fit to be president.

At the very worst - well, you know.

[Reader Rabbit]

26. His potential buyers?

[niyad]

28. daddy vlad? mbs? kim?

[1cheapbeemr]

29. Putin

Obviously

[aggiesal]

31. Good thing the Biden Administration doesn't give Pendejo45 ...

the Presidential Daily Briefing, not that he would read it.

They knew what he would do with them.

[Tickle]

32. That's a very good question

How would he know what to steal and how did he steal it?

Nuclear stuff you can't take out any paperwork out nor can you bring in electronic devices. I'm almost more concerned as to how he got that stuff out. Who helped him do it and how.?

Did the FBI review tapes in the "nuclear" room and that's how they know he stole that info? so many questions that need to be answered and no one is providing any information. I know they don't talk about on going investigations but this is different. this has to do with a former president and why it took the FBI 19 months is beyond my comprehension.

Is anyone else losing sleep over this?

[Kingofalldems]

36. Trump stole top secret documents.

[spanone]

38. Jared got a list from MBS worth $2Billion?

[Lonestarblue]

39. There is no way Trump packed all those boxes himself.

There should be records of the aides that were in the WH to the bitter end. I suspect the FBI has or will be interviewing them. What were they told to take, and who told them? I believe it was Trump. We all decry how stupid he is, but I thing that’s wrong. He is ignorant because he’s too lazy to learn things, but he isn’t stupid and I believe is fully capable of understanding the monetary value of top secret documents offered to US enemies. Foreign agents have been in and out of his club for years. He could easily have shown documents to then for a price—money to be deposited in secret accounts somewhere.

[Swede]

40. Filthy lucre.

Uncontained greed.

[ck4829]

41. And that is the 6 million ruble question

[LizBeth]

44. Not only does he not read, he is incredibly lazy and stupid.

Not only did he not read what documents but he did not choose, sort out, pack or haul anything.

[2naSalit]

45. It was the voice...

Inside the soccer ball.

https://i.insider.com/5b4d0e0a45a56e1f008b4ac8?width=1000&format=jpeg

[dameatball]

50. If he was indeed a "Manchurian" president he would have simply been told what to acquire. Trying

to sell them would not have even been necessary. He was being paid already and had been since prior to 2016. Maybe refusing to pass on information was never an option. It is a stretch but not as much of a stretch as I once thought.
Let's not forget Manafort. The original handler perhaps?

[machoneman]

54. It was his national security guy, Robert Whateverhis last name is.

[onecaliberal]

56. Not only that. Who removed the documents from the secured location and put it in a box.

[Cherokee100]

57. I bet

I bet they are fluent in Russian.

[ecstatic]

61. If someone else guided him, wouldn't the documents be at that person's home?

I think we should believe witnesses who've told us time and time again that TFG is a control freak. He may not have had a firm grasp on reality or much of anything but he knows how to grift and commit crimes.

[Tommymac]

65. The Pillow Guy?

Wasn't there a photo of him carrying some documents? And after all he was in the White House several times after November.