Ousted Republican reflects on Trump, democracy and America: 'The place has lost its mind'

[kpete]

Rusty Bowers was speaker of Arizona’s house of representatives when he stood up to the former president’s demand that he overturn the election result. He paid the price but has no regrets

“The constitution is hanging by a thread,” he told me. “The funny thing is, I always thought it would be the other guys. And it’s my side.

That just rips at my heart: that we would be the people who would surrender the constitution in order to win an election. That just blows my mind.”…

It’s a party that doesn’t have any thought. It’s all emotional, it’s all revenge. It’s all anger. That’s all it is.”

He held the thumb and digit finger of his right hand so close together that they were almost touching. “The veneer of civilization is this thin,” he said. “It still exists – I haven’t been hanged yet. But holy moly, this is just crazy. The place has lost its mind.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/20/rusty-bowers-interview-trump-arizona-republicans

[spooky3]

1. Yet he said he would vote for Trump again. Nt

[kpete]

2. he changed his mind:

“I’ll never vote for him, but I won’t have to," Bowers said. "Because I think America’s tired and there’s some absolutely forceful, qualified, morally defensible and upright people, and that’s what I want. That’s what I want in my party, and that’s what I want to see.”

https://news.yahoo.com/rusty-bowers-never-vote-for-trump-again-jan-6-arizona-160540737.html

[spooky3]

4. Very glad to hear that. Thx. Nt

[dalton99a]

5. +1

[Cosmocat]

13. Yeah, cause Desantis

Won't do it, either ...

[Ocelot II]

7. Not any more. Evidently he has finally seen the light.

Took him long enough, though.

[MagickMuffin]

3. The funny thing is, I always thought it would be the other guys. And it's my side.

Rusty Rusty Rusty, if that's how you see things then you have not been paying attention. Your party HAS been like this for a very very long time.

[Wounded Bear]

10. That's kind of how denial works...

you spend years and years projecting your own faults on others, and finally, maybe, you realize that you are the problem, and have been all along.

Everywhere I go, there I am. If all of my relationships are toxic, maybe they're not the ones with the problem.

[TigressDem]

11. EVEN some Republicans are idealists. They WANT their party to be GOOD and have honest values.

We see their lack of support for taxes that address inequality and/or assisting the poor as killing off children.

They see our support of abortion rights as killing off children.


FROM those vantage points BOTH SIDES can see anything "THEY" do as coming from a bad or wicked impulse.


There ARE so many whackos on the Reich Wing side that want WHITE PEOPLE to tell everyone HOW they SHOULD LIVE and they are LOUD.

BUT we have a lot of people that want to live however they choose no matter what anyone thinks about it too.


For devout Christians who believe in Religious law vs personal faith and not judging others, supporting (as in not only condoning but celebrating) someone else in their hedonism (whatever flavor) is appalling.



LEGALLY, we can probably expect a compromise that keeps the law out of our bedrooms and decisions, BUT the whole pronoun stuff and supporting people's choices by mandate may appear to them as invasive as banning abortion is to US.


We see "them" bowing and scraping to the rich and doing their bidding, but a lot of that is structural and "they" as a populace may not realize how they are manipulated.

They see US as promoting hedonism, which is maybe overstated. We figure if someone else wants to live in freedom and make choices we wouldn't, it's on them, not US.


As a moderate DEM, I think without a Civil War we get back these portions of ROE:

Allow abortion to protect the life of the mother.
Allow abortion in case of an nonviable fetus, miscarriage is natural and does the same thing.
AND give US ALL FORMS of birth control that can be done in advance or within the first month:
Birth Control Pill
IUD
Manual Contraceptives that block or stop pregnancy
Morning After Pill
AND D&C in case of rape or incest.

Then we turn abortion into more of a last option remedy and expect our population to make their birth control decisions in advance and not lean on abortion as a simple option for unwanted pregnancy.

In some ways it isn't "fair" BUT it acknowledges their desire to protect the unborn AND still allows people to make choices about pregnancy which keeps women free.

[Arazi]

18. Nope. STOP the right wing framing. Just stop it. Immediately.

Then we turn abortion into more of a last option remedy and expect our population to make their birth control decisions in advance and not lean on abortion as a simple option for unwanted pregnancy.

1. “Last option remedy” erases womens autonomy to make their own decisions about whether to have a child or not. Many people aren’t religious and/or their religion explicitly allows abortion. Having it be a “first option remedy” is 100% ok. Stop guilting anyone into seeing it as something reluctantly chosen

2. MANY don’t have the luxury of making their birth control decisions “in advance” because they were raped

3. Abortion has been a “simple option” for an unwanted pregnancy since the earliest days of human existence. You can’t stop it. It’s not a shameful or even rare occurrence in human history.

[TigressDem]

21. Don't take what I said out of context. I PUT IN BOLD WHAT WE MUST HAVE.

Have you ever HAD an abortion?

Been raped?

Had a miscarriage?

Had a D&C?

Ever carried a baby in your womb and fallen in love with that being before they were born?

I have experienced all those and had very little options for the first four at the time.

BUT knowing what I know now, and IF it would help keep Democracy and the US from being ripped down the middle, I think we can work with making sure that all other forms of birth control are available, so that many can control their decision from the get go and can get the education to do so.

AND THAT WE KEEP Abortion for medical necessity and in case of rape or incest. I didn't EVEN talk about giving that up, so your objection is actually about keeping abortion an EASY FIX to pregnancy.



IF SOMEONE IS PREGNANT, it should be THEIR decision. BUT they should have more options and an environment where they can make those choices in a way that really allows them to keep their values.

The only reason I had an abortion is because my abusive ex husband talked me into going to his father's funeral and the family put us in a room together. The baby wasn't his biologically, we'd been separated for over a year, but we were still fighting over custody issues and he could say it was his legally because we were still married technically.

Fears that he would be abusive to the child, fears that I would lose my other child made me pass up the opportunity to have an open adoption with a woman who would have LOVED that baby and been a great parent.

What I wish is that all the other ways that women get enslaved by this world were as important to people as an EASY FIX to an unwanted pregnancy.

If a person has a sense of responsibility and isn't just fucking around, it can be a hole in your heart to have an abortion. Even when you know it's the right choice for the situation. Ending a pregnancy shouldn't be like going out and getting fast food. It's a surgery and it changes your life. SOME thought needs to go into it and the more options available and ways to make them work would be MORE like freedom.







As a moderate DEM, I think without a Civil War we get back these portions of ROE:

Allow abortion to protect the life of the mother.
Allow abortion in case of an nonviable fetus, miscarriage is natural and does the same thing.
AND give US ALL FORMS of birth control that can be done in advance or within the first month:
Birth Control Pill
IUD
Manual Contraceptives that block or stop pregnancy
Morning After Pill
AND D&C in case of rape or incest.

[keep_left]

19. Yep. The antecedents of Trumpism go back at least to Reagan, if not before.

There are a number of good historical accounts. Rick Perlstein has written a four-part series of books.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/rick%20perlstein

Another good one is Suburban Warriors by Lisa McGirr.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/suburban-warriors-lisa-mcgirr/1129969754

[drmeow]

20. Exactly! We've ALWAYS known it would be their side

That's what the far right does ... EVERYWHERE

[markie]

6. I don't get it

the guy seems ok... but yet he couldn't see trump for who he was until 2020?? How can seemingly reasonable people not have seen/known??

"...voted for Trump in the 2020 election. “I campaigned for Trump, I went to his rallies, I stood up on the stage with him,” he said."

[Ocelot II]

8. People see what they want to see.

[RKP5637]

9. He fell all the way for the sociopathic narcissistic con artist. n/t

[CrispyQ]

14. +1

I'm still stunned that 11 million more people voted for Trump in 2020, even after four years of seeing what a hateful, incompetent, self-absorbed prick he is. Tells you a lot about the state of our country.

[Kaleva]

16. It tells one a lot about humans

How many people remain in destructive relationships by convincing themselves they need to stay for whatever reason they can think of?

[Kaleva]

17. Humans aren't rational beings

[JHB]

12. Another guy who wants to restore his party to ... 2006

When the wood rot was quite advanced, but the varnish still looked shiny, and nobody's foot had gone through it yet.

[CrispyQ]

15. Excellent analogy. -nt