Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

marble falls

(57,172 posts)
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 08:57 AM Oct 2022

Alleged Oath Keeper Thomas Caldwell had a 'death list' Non-tweet version

Alleged Oath Keeper Thomas Caldwell had a 'death list' including the name of an election official and their family. His lawyers say it's a 'doodle pad.'
Katherine Tangalakis-Lippert
Jul 30, 2022, 1:13 AM

An Oath Keeper from Idaho in Bozeman, Montana.

https://www.businessinsider.com/oath-keeper-thomas-caldwell-death-list-name-of-election-official-2022-7


An alleged Oath Keeper was charged with sedition following the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.

Police discovered Thomas Caldwell had a 'death list' that included the name of a Georgia election official.

Caldwell's lawyer argued the list was part of a "doodle pad" that should be excluded from evidence.



While searching alleged Oath Keeper Thomas Caldwell's home following the attack on the US Capitol just three days prior, police found a "death list" that included the name of a Georgia election official and their family member.

-snip-

"From the search, law enforcement recovered a document that included the words "DEATH LIST" hand-written across the top with the name of a Georgia election official, a purported family member of that official, and the county and state associated with that official all hand-written underneath," read the government's motion regarding trial evidence.

-snip-

"This document is not a 'list' but, rather, a doodle pad. The words 'death list' are written in all caps, whereas the balance of writing on the doodle pad is written in upper and lower case letters," read the defense's motion to exclude the note pad evidence.

"Moreover, the words 'death list' are separated from the names of the election workers by scribbled writing, and were clearly written with a different pen. There are no other names on the 'list,' because it is not a list. Importantly, the names written on the doodle pad were not, as the Government claims, election 'officials' but, rather, temporary election workers."


-snip-


This guy is the worst of the worst.

25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Alleged Oath Keeper Thomas Caldwell had a 'death list' Non-tweet version (Original Post) marble falls Oct 2022 OP
So how did the Judge Rule on this matter? msfiddlestix Oct 2022 #1
They made the motion, the judge will rule before the trial. These are hearings of motions. marble falls Oct 2022 #3
I see, gotcha. Thanks. msfiddlestix Oct 2022 #5
The story is dated July 30, 2022 Effete Snob Oct 2022 #7
Do I understand this correctly? The Judge ruled in favor of the Defendant's "Doodle Pad" argument? msfiddlestix Oct 2022 #10
I believe just today the judge confirmed that death list, inc title, will not be allowed in trial nt wiggs Oct 2022 #15
Here it is. Prosecutors thought Caldwell attorneys re-opened the issue and wiggs Oct 2022 #18
Thank you. Of course it's inflammatory! Everything they think and say is inflammatory.... msfiddlestix Oct 2022 #25
No Effete Snob Oct 2022 #20
The judge ruled on this a month ago Effete Snob Oct 2022 #8
Come on guys, who doesn't have a death list doodle pad? ck4829 Oct 2022 #2
Some coworkers made one once, Ferryboat Oct 2022 #11
And I bet he's not the only Oath Keeper and the like that have such lists. These guys are RKP5637 Oct 2022 #4
Doodle Dogs and Doodle Pads Zambero Oct 2022 #6
I'm always mixing up my death list with my grocery list. harumph Oct 2022 #9
Just a doodle pad. TheBlackAdder Oct 2022 #12
I had a doodle pad once. jaxexpat Oct 2022 #13
"I have a little list. . ." niyad Oct 2022 #14
"This guy is the worst of the worst." dchill Oct 2022 #16
A lot of hamana-hamana-hamana from the defense ToxMarz Oct 2022 #17
Planning to kill election workers strikes to the heart of nullifying the popular vote. ancianita Oct 2022 #19
No political agenda so it's not terrorism IronLionZion Oct 2022 #21
Should have labeled it "Christmas List" Ligyron Oct 2022 #22
When I imagine being a juror in any trial, Mr.Bill Oct 2022 #23
DOJ argues that Oath Keeper Thomas Caldwell's presentation in court has opened the door-death list LetMyPeopleVote Oct 2022 #24

wiggs

(7,817 posts)
15. I believe just today the judge confirmed that death list, inc title, will not be allowed in trial nt
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 10:46 AM
Oct 2022

wiggs

(7,817 posts)
18. Here it is. Prosecutors thought Caldwell attorneys re-opened the issue and
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 10:59 AM
Oct 2022

wanted to overturn previous denial to admit the death list. seems relevant but the judge apparently again thought it was too inflammatory


msfiddlestix

(7,285 posts)
25. Thank you. Of course it's inflammatory! Everything they think and say is inflammatory....
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 06:11 PM
Oct 2022

I swear, when I hear a judge make use of that wordL :inflrmmatory" as a rational for denying evidence that obviously does relate to state of mind and intent... it just makes me want to knock some sense into their heads. (If only) and I know prosecutors have to deal with this more than they'd expect. arrggh.



 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
20. No
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 11:12 AM
Oct 2022

First, the defendants are charged with a conspiracy relating to disrupting a proceeding in the US Congress. The "death list" has the name of a Georgia official and a relative. That does not inherently relate to a conspiracy to disrupt a proceeding in the US Congress. Trials aren't about establishing whether someone is a "bad person", they are about establishing that the person committed the acts constituting the crime with which they've been charged. That is the essence of Rule 404 of the Federal Rules of Evidence.

First the government filed a motion to bring in the death list (and a whole bunch of other stuff) here:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.239211/gov.uscourts.dcd.239211.187.0_1.pdf

Caldwell objected to use of the "death list" in a document apparently not on the public docket and the government replied as follows, including a picture of the "death list" here:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.239208/gov.uscourts.dcd.239208.251.0.pdf



Okay, so the "death list" is Ruby Freeman and her daughter.

So, the argument was not about whether it was a "doodle pad", the argument was about the relevance of a "death list" consisting of two persons in Georgia, to the crime charged concerning actions taken in DC.

Ferryboat

(923 posts)
11. Some coworkers made one once,
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 10:14 AM
Oct 2022

And left it laying around. Led to some very uncomfortable conversations with HR.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
4. And I bet he's not the only Oath Keeper and the like that have such lists. These guys are
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 09:12 AM
Oct 2022

really the scum of the universe!

Zambero

(8,965 posts)
6. Doodle Dogs and Doodle Pads
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 09:44 AM
Oct 2022

My doodle dog pup is a mix of Bernese mountain dog and phantom poodle. Doodle pads mix active human thought process with manual dexterity, for all to see. It's downright amazing what these various mixes reveal!

ToxMarz

(2,169 posts)
17. A lot of hamana-hamana-hamana from the defense
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 10:53 AM
Oct 2022

But seriously, who has a document in their home with "DEATH LIST" hand-written across the top!

Mr.Bill

(24,317 posts)
23. When I imagine being a juror in any trial,
Thu Oct 6, 2022, 11:27 AM
Oct 2022

whenever either side wants to hide evidence, I want to see it. The jurors are not stupid. Let them decide the value of evidence. That's what juries are for. Let them do their job.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Alleged Oath Keeper Thoma...