Oakland Cops Hope to Arm Robots With Lethal Shotguns

[Nevilledog]

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Sam Biddle
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NEW: Oakland Police want to load live 12 gauge shotgun rounds into their bomb-defusing robots in order to kill people during certain circumstances.

theintercept.com
Oakland Cops Hope to Arm Robots With Lethal Shotguns
While official language condoning killer robots is shelved for now, Oakland police are still pursuing the option.
8:48 AM · Oct 17, 2022

https://theintercept.com/2022/10/17/police-robot-gun-oakland/

IN A SERIES of little noted Zoom meetings this fall, the city of Oakland, California, grappled with a question whose consequences could shape the future of American policing: Should cops be able to kill people with shotgun-armed robots?

The back-and-forth between the Oakland Police Department and a civilian oversight body concluded with the police relinquishing their push for official language that would have allowed them to kill humans with robots under certain circumstances. It was a concession to the civilian committee, which pushed to bar arming robots with firearms — but a concession only for the time being.

The department said it will continue to pursue lethal options. When asked whether the the Oakland Police Department will continue to advocate for language that would allow killer robots under certain emergency circumstances, Lt. Omar Daza-Quiroz, who represented the department in discussions over the authorized robot use policy, told The Intercept, “Yes, we are looking into that and doing more research at this time.”

The controversy began at the September 21 meeting of an Oakland Police Commission subcommittee, a civilian oversight council addressing what rules should govern the use of the city’s arsenal of military-grade police equipment. According to California state law, police must seek approval from a local governing body, like a city council, to determine permissible uses of military equipment or weapons like stun grenades and drones. Much of the September meeting focused on the staples of modern American policing, with the commissioners debating the permissible uses of flash-bang grenades, tear gas, and other now-standard equipment with representatives from the Oakland Police Department.

Roughly two hours into the meeting, however, the conversation moved on to the Oakland police’s stable of robots and their accessories. One such accessory is the gun-shaped “percussion actuated nonelectric disruptor,” a favorite tool of bomb squads at home and at war. The PAN disruptor affixes to a robot and directs an explosive force — typically a blank shotgun shell or pressurized water — at suspected bombs while human operators remain at a safe distance. Picture a shotgun barrel secured to an 800-pound Roomba on tank treads.

*snip*


Gee, what could possibly go wrong....

[SheltieLover]

1. Hell no!

[FakeNoose]

2. Shooting robots might have stopped the massacre in Uvalde

Goodness knows the cops weren't going in there.

Just sayin'

[First Speaker]

3. Gee--what could possibly go wrong...?

[OAITW r.2.0]

4. Now that would be a legal and ethical nightmare.

So robot shoots someone....and is found guilty of wrongful death. Does robot go to prison? Does robot get programmed to shoot first and deal with questions later? A Brave, New World, indeed.

[NickB79]

12. The robot isn't AI

It's piloted by a cop like a military drone.

So the cop behind the joystick would be responsible.

[OAITW r.2.0]

17. Makes sense.

The future of both policing and war, it appears.

[doc03]

19. It wasn't my fault the joy stick malfunctioned nt

[Sympthsical]

5. I shall buy stock in OCP

[Volaris]

20. See, SOMEONE ELSE gets how capitalism and sci-fi references work lol..

[Iggo]

6. Cowards. (n/t)

[captain queeg]

7. Makes Robocop seem prescient

[Irish_Dem]

9. Runaway (1984) Future Cop Tom Selleck Takes Down Rogue Robots

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. ACAB -- even robot ones. FTP.

[TDale313]

10. Yeah. Pretty much.

[NickB79]

11. Would have been nice to have in the Uvalde mass shooting

50 cops too chickenshit to go in against one armed kid. An armed robot remotely piloted couldn't be worse than that debacle.

[Nevilledog]

13. Will you feel that way when the robot is responsible for killing kids?

[NickB79]

14. What, they were safer in the classroom with the AR-armed gun nut?

How did that work out, waiting an hour before going in? How many kids bled out from their wounds?

And the robot is remotely piloted, so it's not responsible. The cop behind the joystick would be. It's no different than when a cop today hits a bystander in a crossfire.

[Nevilledog]

15. And if the robot had gone in while kids were still alive?

You can't have it both ways.

Robot goes in immediately while kids are still alive, the likelihood of the robot WITH A SHOTGUN killing kids is high.

If it takes so long to get the robot in there that all the kids are dead, why did you need a robot?

[NickB79]

16. Kids bled out in the hour waiting for a response

There were literally kids that could have been saved if they were rescued just 10 minutes sooner. They were still alive but too far gone once they got to the hospital.

No one thinks they could get a robot in before kids got shot; the gunman was shooting within minutes of entry. That's a strawman argument. But they could have potentially gotten a robot in within 30 minutes, based on how fast they got SWAT on site. That would have saved lives.

And again, it's literally no different than an armed officer going in. The robot is controlled by an officer, so it's not an AI.

Would you object to living cops going in before kids were shot, due to fear the cops may hit a child in the crossfire?

[Nevilledog]

18. So it's acceptable to sacrifice some kids by robot shotgunning, so long as others might make it?

It's totally different from an armed officer doing his/her fucking job. One, they're not using shotguns and two, they're actually able to target and fire.

The only thing that will make a difference is getting rid of the guns. Everything else is just a Faustian bargain.

[Kaleva]

23. Same thing is possible if cops had breached the room

Shotguns are precision weapons at close to medium ranges. They are not scatter guns like they sometimes are portrayed as being in movies or on TV

There may actually be less chance of hitting innocents as it's a lot easier to aim on a target when not being shot at by the target armed with an AR-15 or any other gun.

[ecstatic]

21. Unless they're referring to terrorism situations, why would they need that?

A robot, if used, should be the safest "officer" to deal with because they don't have the "I was scared for my life" excuse.

[Iggo]

22. And is a robot going to be better or worse...

…at differentiating between good guys and bad guys?

And by good guys, I definitely do not mean other cops. I mean you and me.

Will they be better or worse at guessing whether the person running at them is a hostage or a hostage-taker?

You give guns to men and train them to be robots, and you get what we have now.

You give guns to robots, and we may be fucked.