Cannabis use increases pain after surgery, study shows

[Sewa]

"Cannabis is the most commonly used illicit drug in the United States and increasingly used as an alternative treatment for chronic pain, but there is limited data that shows how it affects patient outcomes after surgery," said Elyad Ekrami, M.D., lead author of the study and clinical research fellow of the Outcomes Research Department at Cleveland Clinic's Anesthesiology Institute. "Our study shows that adults who use cannabis are having more—not less—postoperative pain. Consequently, they have higher opioid consumption after surgery."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-10-cannabis-pain-surgery.html

[LakeArenal]

1. They didn't study me....

Two orthopedic surgeries and with cannabis got me off painkillers almost immediately.

My Dr was very surprised. But even without painkillers my hips never hurt as much after surgery as they did before surgery taking stronger painkillers.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Okay but this is only about surgical pain in the 24 hours after surgery; the pain you get from the

surgery. Not whether you have pain after a surgery that was meant to correct that pain.

[ZonkerHarris]

27. yes, cannabis is not an effective painkiller for scapel cwounds and messing around inside a person.

painfully obvious study because no one ever said it was good for that.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

3. As someone who's taken a ton of both, I'm here to tell ya ...

Cannabis often provides a decent distraction from mild to moderate pain (1-6 on pain scale).

It does jack shit for severe pain (7-10) in my experience.

Cannabis is not an actual pain killer, it functions as a distraction. Helps you care less, feel better in ways that make you FEEL like you're getting relief. Which is functionality that is often still useful, don't get me wrong.

But Opioids are actual painkillers. At least in a shorter-term sense. Like 1-14 days.

Don't get this mixed up.

[LeftInTX]

25. Not always downward spiral. I've been on tyl #3 for 25 years.

I don't take very much of it.

The tyl is more of a risk than codeine. At first he wanted to prescribe oxycontin, but it was around that time that the feds were getting all over this stuff and so he told me to stick with tyl #3 or go without. (I take 1/2 to 1 pill per day)

[LeftInTX]

24. Opioids work good on acute pain...not so good for chronic.

I don't tolerate cannabis well because of sjogren's syndrome..Well, I haven't had any in years...You can get Delta 8 in Texas, but quality is always "iffy"

[Karma13612]

35. 👍👍👍👍

[llashram]

42. 1-14 days?

by the 14th day, they are well on their way to being extremely dependent on their opioids. THC has a calming effect and relieves pain. 10 surgeries since 2017 are proof of my case. Distraction? okay.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

45. Well on their way to extremely dependent in 14 days?

I really don't think so, not when used as typically prescribed, which is usually 20-40mg of hydro or oxycodone/day.

There's a difference however depending on the persons history of opioid use. Someone who's abused them seriously in the past, then yes, you'll looking at significant withdrawals at 14 days of that level of use because your body never entirely 'goes back' to how it was before you abused opioids and you will get withdrawal effects much more readily if you pick them up again later, for any reason, even legit ones like surgery.

But for the average person? The w/d effects will be pretty minimal from that timeframe/level of usage.

In either case however I was speaking to the fact that their efficacy begins to wane around that 2 week time frame, and you begin to need more and more for similar analgesic effect to when you first started taking them. Most surgeries you won't need opioids for a full 2 weeks anyway, but that depends on the type of surgery.

But yeah, cannabis is a distraction, it's not a true pain killer like opioids and NSAID's are. It takes your mind off it but it doesn't actually make anything approaching severe pain ... actually go away.

Try some cannabis when your tooth is infected and you need an imminent root canal, or your appendix is inflamed and you need surgery to get it out. You'll quickly find it does NOTHING for that kind of pain, because it's too acute for 'distractions' to work. IV of morphine WILL do something for it, and it works on basically every person.

You can believe what you want about the subject though

[llashram]

46. well

believe what you may. I have experienced the opioid effect after an appendix removal. I just know. And people are killing themselves and each other for these pills. I know that also. Believe what you may and I don't need you telling me what my life experience at 74 has TAUGHT me. You have a good one.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

47. Here's the thing ... I've BEEN extremely opioid dependent before ...

Think along the lines of 240-320mg of oxycodone a day, every single day, for a few years.

And whatever you experienced after a few days or even weeks on the stuff, taking it as Rx'd? Is NOTHING like 'extremely dependent'. So that's where I'm taking issue with you. YES, even after 14 days or even less, you may 'feel it' for a couple days afterwards when you stop taking them. But it's really nothing like what 'extreme dependence' actually causes. You almost certainly lack the 'life experience' to make such a claim ... and good for you, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

And in any case, the topic of discussion here was NOT addictive potential of opioids, it's the fact that cannabis doesn't do that much for severe pain, such as the kind immediately after surgery (or perhaps before surgery, when your labrum is torn or your tooth or appendix are severely infected ... all situations I've had, and tried to treat with cannabis ... to zero avail).

I stand by what I said, on the actual topic at hand.

To be clear if you can get by on cannabis, it's the better choice, CLEARLY. But not everyone can.

[llashram]

48. what you seem to totally

misunderstand is that THC is medicinally effective in dealing with pain at all levels. Which I have experienced. I lack nothing in life's experience(s) and you are out of your league in stating something like that. "THC has no pain-relieving efficacy with EXTREME PAIN". You do not get to minimize my pain. My appendix was just one example. 10 surgeries since 2017 and I threw those pills away-flushed and said no thanks to the later perscript...so believe what you may because you are entitled to do that now without rebuke. Have a good one with your life of "zero avail". It just ain't me.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

51. You are arguing from a sample size of 1 here, your experience is basically anecdotal

Maybe cannabis works in this amazing way for you ... which is great, lucky you

Opioids are more reliably effective for short-term treatment of acute/severe pain across the total population, and I challenge you to find STUDIES that refute that assertion. Matter of fact, the article in the OP more or less confirms what I'm saying, funnily enough.

When the pain is so acute that you cannot be distracted from it, cannabis is really not that effective for MOST people. I have, in fact, experienced various types of pains where taking THC made the pain decidedly worse, and made me more miserable.

And if you'd become 'extremely dependent' like you say after a short opioid stint, it'd have been VERY difficult for you, mentally, to flush those pills. Was it very hard for you? If not, you weren't extremely dependent

[llashram]

62. I did not say I was dependant after 14 days.

but you are where you are and it "seems never the twain shall meet".

[Demsrule86]

53. Cannabis can be used in combination with pain pills in order manage pain...it can be very effective.

And different pain such as knee pain responds to different painkillers. They sent my friend home after knee surgery with Tylenol...she did not have a good outcome...thanks to this inhumane treatment...didn't move enough...so fuck them; these doctors should not allow people to suffer as they do with the war on pain medication in full swing.

[OldBaldy1701E]

4. Nice reach there.

I swear, now that the threat of a retag takeover is being tossed about (hysterically so, I might add, because they are going down in three weeks!) there seems to be a real attempt to try and curry favor by slyly condemning those things that are traditionally seen as 'left/liberal' ideas and concepts. Like using cannabis for pain. Never mind that the plant has been used in this fashion for literally centuries by many different cultures, we found out that this small number of people had this effect happen to them, so no one anywhere in the galaxy should even be allowed to look at that devil weed again.

one step forward... two steps back... sigh.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

5. Cannabis is better for chronic pain, but it's shit for acute, severe pain

People should be able to get the appropriate treatment for both cases.

But I hear what you're saying on the political side of things

[OldBaldy1701E]

8. I feel it is on certain occasions, but for others, you are correct.

And, yes, my point was that this is just playing 'hide the salami' with the public so that no one will call them out on their duplicitous behavior, especially whoever is in power.

[spanone]

6. Not here.

[IbogaProject]

7. I'd bet most if not all those facilities bar Cannabis

So they are measuring patients accustomed to Cannabis without cannabis having to use an alternative.

[BigmanPigman]

9. Cannabis has had no affect on me and never has as far as pain goes.

I smoke it every night to sleep better. Indica does the trick.

I have had all kinds of pain and I have never felt any increase or decrease in 40 years of use.

[Mariana]

10. Which is cause and which is effect?

Are they experiencing more pain because they use cannabis, or are they using cannabis because they experience more pain?

[Calculating]

12. Wtf?

It should just be legal in general, and in medical cases it does provide some people with a lot of relief. How much is big pharma paying you?

[Calculating]

15. Lol

All of our issues are because of cannabis legalization...got it.

[GP6971]

13. Welcome to DU

I guess.

[Solomon]

29. Dang it I missed it!

[marble falls]

31. Anti-pot RWer who says society is screwed by pot heads.

[Bettie]

57. I always seem to miss them.

Ah well.

[Maeve]

17. Your mileage may vary

Personally, opiods make me worse without relieving pain---bad dreams, nausea, all the possible side effects. I'd gladly try medical cannabis next time I'm post-op.

[marble falls]

32. Opioids make me feel in a bubble - half here/half not, not asleep/not awake.

[GoodRaisin]

63. That's my experience with opioids as well. But they don't help my pain.

I get more pain relief from a strong dose of ibuprofen.

[marble falls]

65. That's me, too. Pot doesn't cover up the pain, it just makes it acceptable and ignorable ...

... opioids dulls the pain, but it's still there. Plus all the other unpleasant opiate buzz.

[Maeve]

66. Same here. After both a bone break and gallbladder surgery

I had bad experiences with opiods and got my best relief with OTC products. My med chart now says "prefer NO opiods".

Didn't have access to cannabis either time, but have good memories of college period pain relief back in the day...

[BootinUp]

18. it is non-addictive, and generally considered safe

as to whether it provides pain relief, I think everyone has to judge it themselves as with most pain medication.

[Ohio Joe]

19. Weird...

I smoke and use cbd’s because opiates did nothing for me.

[Johnny2X2X]

20. It always cracks me up

That even on DU, the response to scientific study is anecdote! Anecdote! Anecdote!

It’s one study. Let’s see what the many many other studies end up finding. This is one data point. Not surprising to me.

[marble falls]

33. This is a coffee clache discussion. Anecdotes are evidence - everything starts as an anecdote.

[Johnny2X2X]

39. But this thread didn't start from an anecdote

It started from an actual scientific and peer reviewed study.

These types of studies are occurring right now, and that's a good thing, proponents of marijuana as medicine have been fighting for decades to make these studies possible. But now that the studies are starting to show results, people don't like the results and try to refute them with anecdotal evidence.

[marble falls]

41. Actually, that's not true. One group made a study and had some conclusions which they've published..

... in a scientific journal for review.

An anecdote is a statement that stands alone until it's gathered. Anecdotes are evidence.

[llashram]

43. nope

not true. I saw 'Reefer Madness' and some of these answers, to me, fall into that category...lol

[Demsrule86]

54. Did you read about the experiment? It is complete nonsense. There is no way to take a diverse

group of people that had various surgeries and compare their pain management...not possible. It is a lousy and meaningless study.

[GusBob]

36. I know right?

and the results 14%/7% dont seem that significant

I would guess chronic users of mind-altering substances dont make the most reliable test subjects

[sarisataka]

44. It is funny to see

TV person- take this non-drug for your pain
DU- no way, I trust medical professionals who have studied what works

Medical professionals- cannabis is not a miracle drug that will help in every case
DU- what do medical professionals know? They are just in the pockets of big pharma

[in2herbs]

21. I would like to know what those elective surgeries were. When I split my face open all I used for

pain was CBD oil. However, during some recent extreme teeth procedures I was surprised to find that CBD did nothing for the pain. I also have a friend with kidney stones and MJ pre-surgery and post-surgery did not help relieve the pain.

All this article can prove is that there isn't one pain reliever for all problems.

[marble falls]

23. Didn't study me. My VA Doc did not tell me to quit. She likes not having to write me pain scripts.

[GoodRaisin]

26. I don't care. I've already heard it doesn't work for everybody. Fine.

Just allow me the freedom to try it on my own chronic pain if I want to. We don’t have that freedom in North Carolina.

[Demsrule86]

50. It works for my husband and he has chronic pain. We live in Ohio and have a medical card.

It should be legal everywhere.

[GoodRaisin]

59. +1

You and your husband are indeed fortunate. I live in one of the states where the legislature is still too ignorant to give up it’s war on cannabis and won’t even allow it as a treatment option for it’s citizens living in chronic pain.

[Oneironaut]

56. But... Private prisons are losing money!

Where else are they going to get their slave labor? Cannabis being decriminalized is bad for business! /s

[GoodRaisin]

61. Really hope anti-cannabis policies aren't intended to stock private prisons.

I suppose it’s possible there are a few people that evil. But, I think it’s more about the greedy Pharma industry keeping their money coming in.

[LuckyCharms]

28. I don't know...I'd like to see more studies.

I've had sharp, crippling back pain, acute, where it helped sometimes. But sometimes it didn't.

It normally helps me with chronic, dull pain.

I think there would be a lot of variables involved, and wouldn't mind seeing more studies on this.

One thing I do know, in my case anyway, is that strong opiates take care of my acute pain, but I almost never take them because the side effects are worse than the pain. I have to be suffering badly to take them. Not to mention the risk of addiction.

[JuJuChen]

30. ...

[Karma13612]

34. Directly from the

American Society of Anesthesiologists

Sorry but, traditional medical sciences often fight tooth-n-nail against alternative therapies like holistic, vitamins, and now cannabis.

Drug companies don’t want to give an inch.

I want more studies. And more reliable sources. I followed the source for this article back thru it’s publisher then it’s affiliates. Omicron LTD in the Isle of Man UK. Many of their writers have ZERO science or reliable degrees in science.

Lastly, who said cannabis is meant to be a one stop shop?? It’s like saying Biden is terrible as a President because he can’t predict the next market crash or can’t read minds or can’t see thru walls with x-ray vision.

[Hugin]

38. Aw, President Biden can't?

I bet next you're going to tell me there's no Santa Claus or Easter Leporidae!

[Hugin]

37. I stopped reading at "illicit". n/t

[llashram]

40. not true

what bullsh**. I am disabled with very painful conditions and THC is not without its pain-relieving way. Opioids like Limbaugh used are the true enemy of health, not THC. And I am NOT the exception to any medical rule. Your statement and so-called truth link are using too many alarming statements as I have found. I've had 10 surgeries since 2017. I took a couple of opioids and almost threw up. THC on the other hand helped my pain greatly.

[Demsrule86]

49. My husband had spinal surgury and has neuropathy. He has had four surgeries in the las three

years. He has a medical card for Cannabis...It helped him tremendously after surgery. This is a pharmaceutical ploy as Cannabis is cutting into their profits. It is not, true and you should not echo it. He uses it on a day-to-day basis to manage pain. And it works. Are you planning to post perhaps reefer madness? It is as truthful as Medical Express.

[GoodRaisin]

60. Thank you for posting this truth, from someone living with the same spinal issues

as your husband. People can trust us when we say we need all the available options for treating neuropathic pain. We have been there, and know that there is just not that much available for effectively treating it. The Pharma lobby is getting in the way of the development of promising cannabis treatments by pushing their anti-cannabis messages like this OP out into the public. But there are many known cases in which cannabis is effective and a lot of it depends on the types of cannabis being produced. Take the chains off of cannabis development and distribution and I expect a lot more people will be finding it to be a more effective treatment for their neuropathy than the other limited options currently available to chronic pain patients.

[Demsrule86]

52. The study is bullshit too...how do you measure pain after elective surgury for God's sake.

People have different pain thresholds...it is a bullshit study to help big pharm...

[Emile]

55. Who paid for this outcome?

[Chakaconcarne]

58. I found that it takes the edge off opioid treated pain...

As a supplement to opioids to round out the relief.

[Mr.Bill]

64. Gee, could it be

because they don't let you smoke weed in the hospital? Sounds like the lack of weed causes post-op pain.