Lakota Man: Two-spirit people were highly respected and held prominence within the tribe...

[demmiblue]

I’d rather a two-spirit (trans person) baby sit my kids, than a white boy who’s been radicalized by right wing extremists and Fox News. — Change my mind.

Two-spirit people were highly respected and held prominence within the tribe, playing an important role in Lakota society. They named babies and settled disputes. They were blessed with a unique gift to perceive the world from two distinct spiritual lenses. 🪶🏳️‍⚧️

Link to tweet

[Lucinda]

1. ❤️ ✿❧🌿❧✿ ❤️

[SheltieLover]

2. Yup. Agreed!

[republianmushroom]

3. LIKE

[Evolve Dammit]

4. We lost much when "Christians" decimated indigenous peoples. Talk about genocide. We need to make

reparations for the last 200-plus years. As a white guy, I am ashamed and sorry for how we have treated them and all POC. And continue to. Disgraceful.

[soldierant]

13. You might want to sign and share this:

https://action.lakotalaw.org/action/cherokee-delegate

from Lakota Law. It's a small step but a significant one, and it's about d*** time we honored the treaty we made.

There's also a video

[Evolve Dammit]

22. thank you

[teach1st]

5. In Hawai'ian culture, before Europeans "purified"

Moe aikane refers to intimate relationships between partners of the same gender, known as aikane, in pre-colonial Hawai'i. These relationships were particularly cherished by ali'i nui (chiefs) and the male and female kaukauali'i performing a hana lawelawe or expected service with no stigma attached.

Moe aikane were celebrated in many mo'olelo (legends and history), including the Pele and Hi'iaka epics. Most of the major chiefs, including Kamehameha I, had moe aikane. Lieutenant James King stated that "all the chiefs had them" and recounts a tale that Captain Cook was asked by one chief to leave King behind, considering such an offer a great honor. A number of Cook's crew related tales of the tradition with great disdain. American adventurer and sailor John Ledyard commented in detail about the tradition as he perceived it. The relationships were official and in no way hidden. The sexual relationship was considered natural by the Hawaiians of that time.

The word and social category of aikane refers to: ai or intimate sexual relationship; and kane or male/husband. In traditional mo'olelo or chants, women and goddesses (as well as ali'i chiefs) referred to their female lovers as aikane, as when the goddess Hi'iaka refers to her female lover Hopoe as her aikane. During the late 19th and early 20th century, the word aikane was "purified" of its sexual meaning by colonialism, and in print meant simply "friend", although in Hawaiian language publications its metaphorical meaning could mean either "friend" or "lover" without stigmatization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_aik%C4%81ne

Few people appreciate just how gay-friendly Polynesia was before European contact.

Even Captain Cook, who passed through Hawaii, noted in his journals same-same (Aikane) relationships as well as transgender people (Mahu).

The ancient Hawaiians weren’t uptight about relationships and possessed an understanding of human beings’ dual nature comprised of both masculine and feminine qualities. The concept of opposite sexes is foreign to Hawaiian thought, and their language contains no female or male pronouns like “he” or “she.” This reflects the Polynesian emphasis on integration and balance of the male and female gods. The Mahu embody this ancient Polynesian principle of spiritual duality and are viewed as an honored intermediate sex.

https://gayety.co/a-brief-history-of-hawaiis-ancient-gay-culture

[VGNonly]

6. "He had become

a heemanee, for which there is no English word. He was a good one too, the human beings thought a lot of him" -from Little Big Man

[Sympthsical]

7. That is not really what two-spirit is

Nor how it originated.

It's complicated (so, so, so complicated and way beyond what I'm prepared to get into here).

But the contemporary usage of the term, which is largely a Westernization of Native cultures, doesn't really track historically with the cultures being referenced.

It's just one of those things that caught on and people go with it. But a loooooot of it is fabricated, mushed together, cherry-picked, or even whitewashing Native history. (Long story super short: Many Native tribes had lots of different words for gender and sexual roles and orientations, and mashing them all together under "two-spirit" is like some Disney type shit that cropped up in the last thirty or so years to make very complicated things very easy for white and straight people to glom on to).

It's an absolutely fascinating read if you ever feel like digging down into the details, historical and contemporary, because different Native attitudes towards sexuality and gender are complex and greatly varied from tribe to tribe.

But this simplified story version of it is mostly just that - a Disney version of very complex realities and social systems.

I'm only responding to this to encourage people to read more about Native tribes and how different ones handled sexuality and gender. It is super interesting.

[icymist]

9. Is there a book you could recomend?

Thank you in advance.

[Sympthsical]

27. I'm not sure I've ever seen a single book devoted to it

A lot of my reading on the subject has been the result of disappearing into academic databases, wiki holes, etc.

I tried searching around for you, and honestly, everything is just two spirit, two spirit, two spirit. It's taken over everything, because it's popular and easy to grasp, even if it isn't accurate.

Man, that was a frustrating google search.

I glanced through this and set it aside for later. It looks like a super fascinating read. Just from looking, it seems to address some of what I and WhiskeyGrindr noted.

Critically Sovereign

[plimsoll]

10. I think I'll err on the side of Lakota Man here.

That ethnographic present you're talking about is ~1850, and we seem to be getting a contemporary view from his culture. Is it the same as it was in that 1850 ethnographic present? No, and we shouldn't expect it to be. The changes that Native Americans have been subjected to for the last 170 years are extreme. Has the usage changed of a concept, sure and we should expect them to adapt. The alternative is to try and force people to live and believe in ways that are no longer possible.

[wnylib]

12. +1000

Good points, although most people will continue to make Native cultural customs and views into what they want them to be.

[GusBob]

18. I work with quite a few trans Natives

They are mostly younger, I am unaware of a trans elder of my acquaintance

They don’t use the term two-spirited to my knowledge and other Natives-kinda shrug and give me a side eye when I last used it so I don’t anymore

They have a Native term they use here specific to their tribal language ( different tribes have different terms and definitions of similar things. Bigfoot for example has dozens )

The trans kids I know all use the gender neutral and modern terms. One is even transitioning thru surgery which is hardly a traditional thing

To my knowledge they don’t think they are extra spiritual or medicine healers etc.

I’m trying to recall when I first heard the term two spirited I thought it meant bisexual

I think it was in that book Little Big Man

[mopinko]

19. the 1st time i heard the term was in a history of ceramics class.

there was a famous anasazi potter that dressed as a woman. there is a famous early photo of them. they lived as a woman, w the women, doing women's work. pottery was done by the women, but not having kids allowed them to do a lot more of it.
tho this seems to go against darwin's laws, the broader concept of kin selection is how these gender differences have become embedded in our genome. funny how this bugs the ppl who dont believe in evolution.

it's not a surprise that then as now, there is a benefit to tribe of ppl who r more flexible, different.
then as now, they serve as both foster parents/co-parents, a clear survival advantage. but they also excel in the arts.
in the arts esp, it is a non-zero thing. a pot is a pot until it is a unique and beautiful pot, at which point it's intrinsic value increases. and it usually take only a small amount of extra work/materials.

and the value of seeing the world from 2 such differing places should be highly valued. in any intelligent society.

all and all, such ppl have been and continue to be a driver to lift us all up.

[lambchopp59]

8. Yes, tribes differ about this

Yet I've had full blood Navajo and Cherokee recognize this about myself.

[Lonestarblue]

11. We could learn a lot from the Native American culture, especially about protecting the environment.

Would that we had more people in DC willing to listen.

[Wounded Bear]

14. We could learn a lot from most "primitive" cultures...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. LakotaMan is definitely not the person to listen to when it comes to just about anything.

[nolabear]

16. Why do you say that?

Just curious.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. Because he's a clout-chaser whose fetishization of Native culture presents a featureless,

pan-Indian "ideal" that relies heavily on stereotypes, false history and misinformation -- such as the OP -- and panders to a largely white audience, who amplifies him because it finds him palatable.

[mopinko]

20. follow him on twitter and cant rly argue w you.

he's def 1 that does the- obvs statement, reply w ♥️ if u agree- attention getters. i dont tend to jump on those bandwagons.
i usually appreciate his take on the issues of the day, tho.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. .

i usually appreciate his take on the issues of the day, tho.

Well sure, they're crafted to appeal to people like you.

ETA: And I say that entirely without malice; I realize it sounds a little snotty.

[mopinko]

33. well tbf

so does half of twitter.

eta- i have a lot of native friends, some better educated on their history than others. i think i know my history pretty well. when i say current affairs, i mean like voting issues, and also what's happening in indian country. had a post recently about electricity improvements that were part of the infra bill. so i appreciate that. dont rt often.
i'm all irish, descended from irish rebels, and i appreciate the commonality of the struggle.

[nolabear]

21. Mmmm...I get that. Wonder how the tribes feel about him.

If, that is, he registers with them at all.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. "The tribes" are not a monolith but there are plenty of activists actually getting shit done who

have called him out, gotten blocked by him, educated others about the harm he does, etc.

[nolabear]

32. Yes, I recognize they're not monolithic. I had to say it some way.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I’ve seen him but only what he presents.

[Sympthsical]

25. Thank you

I tried to explain similar above.

"that relies heavily on stereotypes, false history and misinformation"

Yep.

"and panders to a largely white audience, who amplifies him because it finds him palatable"

And double yep.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. I forgot to acknowledge your post, which had a lot of information in it for such a complex subject.

[Sympthsical]

28. I just appreciated the company

Because on sensitive subjects that have been oversimplified but are in reality very complex, sometimes it's nice to see someone else and think, "Yay, someone else knows what I'm talking about!"

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. .

[Sympthsical]

30. Found this about Lakota Man

It's a read and a half.

https://ntvtwt.com/2022/07/07/lakotaman1-fake-native-or-fake-lakota/

[WhiskeyGrinder]

31. I've seen it -- here's hoping some people who have recc'd this thread take a look at it.