I think I have an easy solution to get right wing conspiracy theorists to shut up.

[Initech]

And that solution is: ID check at the door for city council, municipal government (includes voter certification), and school board meetings. You're not a resident? You don't get to participate in the discussion. That's it. That's all it would take. Anyone not from the area looking to start shit? You're shown the door.

This needs to happen now. Especially in Arizona. Over half the people arguing for Kari Lake aren't even from Arizona. I'm tired of playing nice with these shitheads.

[MichMan]

1. I thought you meant here

[magicarpet]

2. Putting the skids on foolish Fascist outrage.

Do you have legitimate standing to be involved in this discussion ?

If not - sit the fuck down,...

Better yet - get the fuck out.

[Initech]

4. Yeah something has got to be done.

I was watching some of the footage out of Maricopa... legitimate madness. Not enough facepalms for this.

[2naSalit]

3. They demand...

An ID to vote, that should apply to residency to participate in these functions.

[Effete Snob]

5. What is the First Amendment basis for excluding comment from others?

So, you are saying that if City X decides it wants to flush untreated sewage into the river, then the people downstream outside of the city have no right to comment?

You are also saying that people who do not have an ID with their address on it cannot participate in their local government. What is the First Amendment basis for that?

[Initech]

6. I don't know.

But something's got to be done. One of the people who was harassing the certifiers was a podcaster from Colorado, and much of his rant wasn't even about the election. It was conspiracy theories about child grooming and other RW bullshit nonsense. It was just wasting time.

[Effete Snob]

10. Well, with the opportunity to flap their gums at these things....

We get really good pictures and video of them, some of their distinctive clothing, who they hang around with, etc..

Lot's of J6ers still wanted by the FBI. Inviting them to come to Maricopa and smile for the cameras is a great idea.

[hadEnuf]

11. What's the 1st Amendment basis for voter ID?

[Effete Snob]

29. Non sequitur

Is there an English version of that question?

A government body is holding an open forum. They can't stop people from using their two minutes for whatever.

[hadEnuf]

39. Whatever.

Republican voter ID laws have everything to do with interfering with free speech and free speech is what this thread about.

Government bodies have a right to expect reasonable behavior in an open forum. Purposeful disruption is not a free speech issue, especially coming from people who will stomp on my right to exercise my free speech through voting without batting an eye.

Either ban these provocateurs from entering and starting trouble or put a cop at these meetings and arrest them for disorderly contact and then ban them.

[LiberalFighter]

18. They need to petition to local government that is impacted. Which can also include county and state.

[onenote]

21. Some residency limitations may be permissible

See
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1253859.html

[Effete Snob]

30. I doubt you could apply that in this case

Obviously Maricopa County has no such restrictions in place, but it is interesting that they specifically note the sewer example as an exception.

But the general holding:

"To permit non-residents, those without a direct stake in the outcome of a City's business, to ramble aimlessly at City Council meetings on topics not related to agenda items would be inefficient and would unreasonably usurp “the presiding officer the authority to regulate irrelevant debate ․ at a public meeting.”   Id.  The restrictions in the challenged regulations are reasonable and viewpoint neutral."

First, the conduct of an election for US Senator has an external impact, and this ruling also seemed to be geared to "topics not related to agenda items".

There was a guy who made a YouTube channel out of showing up at various public meetings and opining on topics like Britney Spears etc..

At the close of the comment period, the Maricopa County officials certified the vote.

No problem.

[druidity33]

36. Here in Massachusetts...

many towns have an annual town meeting. In most towns, the moderator/moderatrix has absolute control over the meeting and who speaks. There is definitely a reason to prohibit people from speaking when in a legislative space. And in my town, if you are not a resident, you can't speak at town meeting at all unless asked to... it's a bylaw.

As for city x and it's abhorrent treatment of sewage... i'd say the folk downstream could sue the shit outta them.

[Mad_Machine76]

7. Well

they all love Voter ID, so...........

[mahina]

8. Journalists?

[BamaRefugee]

9. "Your paperz, zey are not in order" Sounds like cops asking "why are you in this neighborhood?"

Don't think it will fly but it's a nice thing to wish for!
Of course 95% of DU would have to shut up about Herschel Walker....which nobody should be willing to do!!

[rubbersole]

12. Well, Lindsey and Ted would have to stay home.

That would help make America great again.

[hadEnuf]

13. DU is not disrupting anything. Nor is it preventing things from getting done.

Unlike these people who are traveling around to specifically disrupt meetings they know little or nothing about.

There is a line between free speech and disruptive harassment.

[Rebl2]

22. Exactly

People have no business coming into a local school district in my town from a different state, or as far as I am concerned, from some other district in my state just to disrupt the meeting. I also don’t like my state (MO) trying to tell local libraries (as well as schools) what books they are allowed to put on their shelves.

[FakeNoose]

14. I think it's a good point - a lot of the disruptors are coming in from somewhere else

I don't know what's to stop them from getting fake IDs though.

[Initech]

15. Politics and sports have a lot in common.

The disruptive fans are ALWAYS from somewhere else. Always.

[AllaN01Bear]

16. i love what one library did to shut up the book banners .

1: have you read said book.
2: i want a book report when u r done
hands stack of books .

[Nululu]

17. Agreed

The worst people at school board meetings are from out of area.

[LiberalFighter]

19. They could also require them to indicate if they are a resident of the locale or outsider.

That distinction while allowing them to speak would reduce their impact.

[Hope22]

20. Sounds like a good start

We had people from outside our community wanting to ban books at our local library. They made a huge deal about a sex Ed book and really tried to stir things up with the ol lib pedophile stories. Things can go from zero to ugly real quick.

[zipplewrath]

23. I suspect you are not either.

I suspect, like me, you are from Florida, where we have little room to complain. I sorta wish each state democrat would take more interest in their own states prior to going all out to involve themselves in other states politics. Okay, I'll give some room for Georgia right now. But democrats did TERRIBLE in Florida and it was predominately due to two horrible factors. 1) democrats didn't turn out. 2) Hispanics are turning GOP. Before I spend too much time lecturing other states about the minutia of their voting laws, I think i'm going to spend a little more time considering what the heck is wrong with Florida.

[Initech]

24. I think what's wrong with Florida is Fox News.

I swear Fox has an iron grip on that state and it's not letting go. It's painfully obvious that DeSantis is a Murdoch puppet judging by the policies he is enabling. The "Stop Woke Act" is 100% a bill that was authored by Fox News, for the purpose of generating content on Fox News, and that's it. We get rid of Fox and we can take Florida back.

[zipplewrath]

27. Blue Collar retirees

Think the Villages all over Florida. Municipal employees from all over the northeast retire here because of no income tax and low property and sales taxes. Texas has a similar problem in that if you look at the voters that were basically born there, you vote democratic, but those that move there from other states, and that's not a small percentage of the population, vote Republican.

Not sure what to say about that. It's kinda federalism defined. It is the fact that it is retirees on SS that are doing this, not to mention municipal pensions, that fund these opinions and to some extent make them fiscally possible.

[zipplewrath]

28. Blue Collar retirees

Think the Villages all over Florida. Municipal employees from all over the northeast retire here because of no income tax and low property and sales taxes. Not to mention favorable weather. Texas has a similar problem in that if you look at the voters that were basically born there, you vote democratic, but those that move there from other states, and that's not a small percentage of the population, vote Republican.

Not sure what to say about that. It's kinda federalism defined. It is the fact that it is retirees on SS that are doing this, not to mention municipal pensions, that fund these opinions and to some extent make them fiscally possible.

[peppertree]

25. A lot of Flawrida Hispanics are Cubans and Colombians who, frankly, PREFER authoritarian despots

The ones I've spoken to over the years, of those nationalities or origins, certainly do.

And Cheeto and deSadist fit the bill to a tee.

[paleotn]

26. Agreed.

Those who actually have a dog in the fight are the only ones who should be allowed to speak, i.e. those who LIVE in those jurisdictions.

[Effete Snob]

31. So Northern civil rights activists should have stayed out of the South?

[paleotn]

34. Strawman alert!

We're not talking about basic human rights here. AZ for example. The people of AZ have spoken....democratically. Thus, there's no need for neo-nazis from wherever to go to AZ and make trouble with or about Kari Lake.

[Joinfortmill]

32. Yup.

[dickthegrouch]

33. I'd rather see out of jurisdiction money banned

The amount of money poured into California during the Prop 8 campaign from other States should have been able to be declared material interference and prevented. I now hate being asked to sponsor both candidates and initiative-style campaigns in other states for exactly that reason.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. You can't do better than restriction?

Keeping people out of meetings will get them to "shut up"? What on earth.

[tiredtoo]

37. Unfortunately There are good points on both sides here

My suggestion is let anyone speak providing they give their full name and home address publicly prior to speaking.

[LakeArenal]

38. I understand your idea. I see it getting panned, too.

Like any idea there are nuances that need to be worked out. I don’t see putting down an idea that a layman might have. As we see by the thread, some communities have worked out variations on the idea.

Edit: It reminds me of the original Star Trek.

Captain Kirk issues an impossible order and Chekhov screams:You can’t do it, Captain!”

Of course Kirk does do it.