Not enough people are getting killed crossing the street, so California has passed a new law

[JohnSJ]

decriminalizing jaywalking

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/jaywalking-decriminalization-ab2147-freedom-to-walk-act-signed-by-newsom/

In my view it is a not particularly smart thing to do

There are already record number of people getting run over by cars here in California, and no doubt this will not help that

[Walleye]

1. Too many New Yorkers moving to California?

[JohnSJ]

3. lol

[Casady1]

9. My mom had b me jaywlaking on 42nd st

when I was 4.

[Walleye]

12. I lived in Hell's kitchen, W. 48th St. and worked on East side and often walked to work

[Casady1]

18. My mom lived in Hell's kitchen

when it was Hell's kitchen.

[Walleye]

21. I lived there for most of the the 80s. I liked it

Of course I was a young or at least younger person then

[Casady1]

23. my mom lived there in

the thirties and my Grandmother had a restaurant caddycorner to Bryant park in the fifties.

[Walleye]

26. I lived next to what became Clinton community garden.Had a plot there for a while

Ed Koch came to dedicate it and I watched it out my window. Fourth floor carried my barn bicycle up to my apartment every night, hard to believe now I’m so arthritic

[Casady1]

24. my mom lived there in

the thirties and my Grandmother had a restaurant caddycorner to Bryant park in the fifties.

[Elessar Zappa]

2. I don't like jaywalking laws.

They’re often selectively enforced to harass minorities.

[JohnSJ]

5. I guess you can say that about any law, no?

[Elessar Zappa]

7. True enough.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

19. One might, but the anti-jaywalking laws have been notoriously abused by police targeting

members of minority groups. It is historic here in Los Angeles.

I share the concerns about what could happen to public safety, given the problems we already face with pedestrians being killed by motorists.

Another one of those issues that is complicated.

[Walleye]

15. I agree

[RockRaven]

4. Where is the evidence that criminalizing jay walking reduces pedestrian deaths?

I'm genuinely asking, not being snarky. How do we know that?

[JohnSJ]

8. It has to do with liability, and considered a traffic law

[RockRaven]

11. I'm asking where is the evidence that criminalizing it WORKS to reduce deaths?

I'm asking for the proof that A causes B, where A is "criminalizing jaywalking" and B is "reduced pedestrian deaths"

[Igel]

44. I think the point was elsewhere, not where you expected it.

You drive a car.

You hit somebody.

That person was walking into the intersection at 2:32 am when *you* had a green light.

That person was jaywalking. You are not liable for cleaning that person's guts off the pavement.


Your cousin is driving. Hits somebody.

That person was walking into the intersection at 2:32 am when *they* had right of way and your cousin was seeing red.

That person was not jaywalking. Your cousin *is* liable for felony manslaughter while running a red light.

It's not about reducing deaths. It's about liability and parameter setting.

[RockRaven]

45. Both the OP title and the sentence following the link are about the NUMBER of people killed.

Only when asked to point out where one could find data that relates the criminal status of jaywalking to the number of deaths is liability raised in a reply. So no, I'm not missing the point, the subject is being changed with a not-response to my query of the OP's premise.

[MicaelS]

6. Disagree completely.

Jaywalking laws are chicken-shit petty laws designed to harass people.

[JohnSJ]

10. Who is liable if a person is hit by a car jaywalking?

[MicaelS]

13. The jaywalker, so what?

You going to outlaw / legislate / regulate everything where someone MIGHT get hurt?

[inthewind21]

16. Depends

on the circumstances, the law where you live, what your/their insurance determines, is it just an insurance claim or a civil lawsuit? Most insurance companies will likely pay out the person hit by the car to resolve the issue. If it goes to court, that will depend on several factors as well. Is a driver completely shielded from liability if they hit a pedestrian jay walking? Short answer, NO.

[MichMan]

35. Now the driver of the car will likely be assumed 100% liable

The pedestrian will be absolved of any responsibility

[ColinC]

14. I support this law

But I also support more funding for infrastructure to make crossing with crosswalks safer -as well as installing more crosswalks in general.

Jaywalking laws do little to dissuade people from jay walking. More opportunities to not jaywalk are a better solution imho.

[maxsolomon]

17. Those laws are notorious in LA for penalizing minority communities.

and it's a really steep fine.

Can you link me to the "record number of people getting run over by cars" in CA? In my observation, there is a renewed focus on vehicle/pedestrian accidents, but I didn't know the numbers were going up.

[former9thward]

25. Here is some stats from the government

2018: 893 pedestrians were killed on California roadways, a 26% increase from 2014.

2018: More than 14,000 pedestrians injured.

Pedestrian deaths rose 26% percent between 2014 and 2018.

Nearly 7,500 pedestrians have died in California between 2009 and 2018.

California’s pedestrian fatality rate is almost 25% higher than the national average.

No state has more pedestrian deaths on its roadways than California.

https://www.ots.ca.gov/media-and-research/campaigns/pedestrian-safety/

[maxsolomon]

33. It's almost 2023.

Love to see more recent stats.

Here's recent from Seattle through June. In the last couple years, the city-wide speed limit was lowered; most minor arterials are now 25 mph, side streets are 20 mph. Doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/seattle-traffic-deaths-and-injuries-remain-high-in-2022/

[former9thward]

27. Why are the police targeting minority communities?

The police chief is appointed by a Democratic Mayor. The City council is Democratic. The State and County government are Democratic. Who is allowing this to happen?

[maxsolomon]

31. You're asking me if LA Cops are a Racist Institution?

https://laist.com/news/transportation/jaywalking-pedestrian-ab-1238-traffic-safety

[former9thward]

32. So there is no control over them by management?

Why is the Police chief allowing it? Why is the Mayor allowing it? Why is the City council allowing it? Then that is a flaw which is on management.

[Celerity]

49. Doing what coppers do. Doesn't matter if its a Dem run city. Look at NYC and Chicago.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

28. yep

[usonian]

20. An ounce of prevention!

Ban self-driving cars.

[Polybius]

46. Once they're perfected, they will be amazing

Imagine a world without drunk drivers.

[usonian]

47. Have you ever worked with a drunken programmer?

Quote a friend: "I'm not drinking anywhere near enough."

TBH, you know who has been flip-flopping on sensors ... and sensors and software can be spoofed, jammed and hacked.

I challenge any self-driving auto to navigate Highway 49, "The Gold Chain Highway" in California without a wire in the road. In the day. Add night and occasional fog.

I believe that autos will have built-in breathalyzers "soon".

[Polybius]

48. Fog only stops humans

The GPS in self-driving cars goes through it. And I'm not a huge fan of cars with built-in breathalyzers. Suppose there's an absolute emergency where you must drive while you had 3 beers? I'm talking like escaping from murderers or an tsunami or natural disaster.

[MichMan]

22. Running red lights will be next

[JohnSJ]

36. Probably not, but ya never know

[chowder66]

29. The problem I'm seeing is that people are jaywalking across traffic now

and that is NOT legal.

[Turbineguy]

30. In Russia,

crosswalks exist to organize the extermination of pedestrians. Or so it seems.

[Bev54]

34. In Canada jaywalking is legal unless and until you interfere with traffic

That means if traffic has to stop for you outside of pedestrian areas then you can be fined but if not you are free to jaywalk.

[JohnSJ]

37. That actually seems reasonable

[LeftInTX]

50. I think it's like that in Texas. No one really one cares.

I have heard of them fining people for crossing the interstate!
That's about it.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

38. I know this is a dumb question

But what is jaywalking exactly?

[yagotme]

41. Crossing city street without being in crosswalk,

or other designated ped. crossing. Middle of the block crossings are illegal, per se.

[Hortensis]

39. Oh, I'm absolutely for an end to pointless authoritarian botheraction

on empty streets. Allowing driving through or stopping before continuing as appropriate, altering at different times of day if appropriate.

But an end to requiring people to stop at lights for no reason other than obedience.

[Ms. Toad]

40. This is a good thing.

Ting said jaywalking laws, which were implemented in the 1930s due to the rise of automobiles, are arbitrarily enforced and tickets are disproportionately given to people of color and in low-income communities. His office cited a study of California Racial and Identity Profiling Act data showing Black residents are stopped 4.5 times more for jaywalking than their White counterparts.

The assemblymember noted police encounters that have started as jaywalking stops have turned deadly, including the 2018 death of Chinedu Okobi, who died during an encounter with San Mateo County Sheriff's Deputies in Millbrae. Prosecutors cleared the deputies of criminal charges.

"No longer will law enforcement be able to stop people who are safely crossing the street and burden them with citations and heaps of debt. For too long, our jaywalking laws were used as a pretext to stop and harass people, especially low-income people and people of color," said Zal Shroff of the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights of the San Francisco Bay Area

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/jaywalking-decriminalization-ab2147-freedom-to-walk-act-signed-by-newsom/

The laws have a disparate racial and class impact, by arresting more people of color (in low income areas), and by fining people more heavily for jaywalking (even when there is not a car in sight) than it does for parking tickets. It obviously isn't preventing people from getting run over by cars. It is a tool for police - consciously or not - to using jaywalking laws to create more interactions with minorities, far too many of which don't end well.

[FakeNoose]

42. This is because the cops don't want to write tickets for jaywalking

Yes of course jaywalking is dangerous, even deadly.

But the cops aren't going to stand on street corners and write tickets for it.
They have better things to do. Like ... shooting at bad guys?

[brooklynite]

43. The secret is just to stare down the oncoming car...

Nobody wants to be delayed getting to work by a police investigation