Can the FBI just arrest Greg Abbot?

[PurgedVoter]

Kidnapping, child cruelty, interstate transport. All of this over state lines. His stunts are cruel and horrid. To do this in the middle of a freeze is a monstrosity. This is abuse of power.

[claudette]

1. And arrest the

bus driver who aided and abetted this crime. And was paid for doing it

[Takket]

3. i've wondered about who drives these buses.......

some person gave up their Christmas to drive that bus. I can't believe people are just lining up for charter duty, especially over multiple days/states, over Christmas. Who does that? Maybe it was just someone desperate for cash who gets doulbe time???

[claudette]

5. Still criminal

To me

[TheRealNorth]

24. We didn't punish them when they did this earlier...

Of course they are going to repeat the criminal behavior if it goes unpunished.

I hope Meriick Garland is watching/listening when it comes to 1/6, because an unpunished coup attempt is just a dress rehearsal for the next one.

[Zilli]

47. They are demonstrating how very, very

above the law they are. I expect that the legal system, we all rely on, is just looking away. Silence is complicity and this type of cruel and demeaning activity has been going on, in one form or another, for decades and there has never been consequences.

[OMGWTF]

53. This is sociopathic behavior. Who else does shit like that? On Christmas Eve?

Arrest Abbott for crimes against humanity.

[Ways]

104. Sick

Wonder how he would feel if situation was reversed. They drop him off in subzero temperatures without his wheelchair . Wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

[former9thward]

32. What?

People do work on Christmas you know. Buses continue to travel, planes fly, trains operate, gas stations are open, police, fire, hospitals are open. Millions of people work on Christmas. Not just "someone desperate for cash".

[Ilsa]

50. I knew older pilots (and doctors, nurses, etc) who volunteered so younger pilots

could be at home with young children. They didn't volunteer for extra pay, either.

[former9thward]

75. When I worked in a steel mill we got double and a half pay on Christmas and Christmas Eve.

Everyone wanted to work those days, kids or not.

[NullTuples]

35. Not everyone feels the same way about Christmas?

I'm sure to some charter bus drivers, it's just another day but maybe they get paid more. Or would if this wasn't a Republican venture...

[jmowreader]

60. For some of us, Christmas is another work day

You do understand police and fire departments across America are fully staffed today. The fire houses may even be running extra staff because Christmas Day is a day of stupidity. Kid gets a new sled and decides to jump it off the 15-foot retaining wall in City Park. Dad is gonna deep fry the Turkey, notices it’s fourteen below zero outside and sets up in the garage. Grandma reminisces about how they used real candles on the tree when she was a kid and her great grandchildren decide to surprise her this morning with real candles on the tree in the living room. I could go on but you get the idea.

Hospitals are staffed. Convenience stores are staffed. They sure as hell don’t allow the customers to run the projectors at the theaters that are staffed because half the families in America have the Grand Christmas Tradition of going to the movies this afternoon. Some of my best Christmas memories involve going to Field Station Berlin at 11:30 Christmas Eve and conducting normal operations. (Humorous story follows: you must know to make this work that our facility was sitting on top of the second-highest hill in East Germany and we ran air conditioning year round to keep the equipment cool, so it was freezing cold in that place in the winter. I was also a bit of a free spirit then. I mean, come on: who DOESN’T draw pictures of Santa’s sleigh in the sights of an antiaircraft gun? Well…I passed the security checkpoint and our colonel was standing there giving holiday greetings. Mine was “sergeant, you have to be good tonight or Santa will bring you coal in your stocking.” I told him, “sir, don’t let that get around. It’s so cold in here people might think that’s a good idea.”)

[Texin]

99. For a lot of folks, a holiday is just another day of the week.

[2naSalit]

7. Drivers and their employers.

[2naSalit]

9. And NO BAIL!!

[claudette]

11. I'm for that

[azureblue]

106. and seize the bus / plane

"used in commission of a crime" - the same law that allows a vehicle to be seized if it is transporting large amounts of drugs. guns, etc..

a few of these should stop Abbott...

[Ocelot II]

2. It's more complicated than that, but I hope there are consequences.

Unfortunately, his voters like it that he does this, and he keeps winning elections.

[SergeStorms]

28. Absolutely correct.

And what conclusion can we draw about the majority of Texans because of that?

[hamsterjill]

59. I'm not sure it's the majority of Texans.

But I see your point. Hey, we are trying down here!

[erpowers]

72. Actually Nothing

I do not think you can draw any conclusion about the majority of Texans from Greg Abbott getting reelected after pulling stunts like this one. I was shocked at how few Texans voted in the most recent election. The vast majority of the state did not vote and seemingly does not vote. While the state has a population of about 30 million the election was decided by about 9 million votes. According to one newspaper, Texas has about 17 million eligible voters. So that means almost half of the eligible voters in the state did not vote.

I guess one can conclude that the majority of the people in Texas were either were not angry enough at Greg Abbott to vote him out of office, or they agreed with what he did. I do not think those are the right conclusions. I think Democrats needed a better candidate and needed to run a better campaign. I am not sure Beto O' Rourke was the right candidate for Governor of Texas. Also, I am not sure he did enough to convince people he would do a better job running Texas.

Although O'Rourke's campaign got a large number of headlines, I am not sure he spent enough time explaining how he would solve problems, especially those important to most people in Texas. He barely ran ads and barely seems to have a ground game. I am not sure anyone who did not already want to vote for O'Rourke was convinced that they should vote for him. I am not sure they ever learned who he was. Whether Democrats want to admit it or not, O'Rourke seemed to concede the messaging game to Abbott. As far as I remember, O'Rourke only ran one, or maybe two original ads and never explained how he would solve any problems. He just said Abbott is a good guy who is in over his head and has been unable to solve the problems of Texas. He then pointed out that he believed the problems of Texas could be solved but failed to give any solutions.

O'Rourke also failed to do what Joe Biden and the Democrats did in 2020. In 2020, Donald Trump tried to blame Democrats and Joe Biden for the unrest in the United States. Democrats fired back that the unrest was happening under Donald Trump. O'Rourke allowed Abbott to blame him and Democrats for the problems of Texas. O'Rourke either rarely, or never fired back that Abbott is the current Governor of Texas and these things are taking place under his watch. O'Rourke should have endlessly pounded Abbott for the failure at the border and the other problems in Texas. However, as far as I recall, O'Rourke just let Abbott blame him and Democrats.

In conclusion, I am sorry for such a long post. I could be wrong, but I do not think Greg Abbott getting reelected says much about the people of Texas. I think O'Rourke was the wrong candidate for Texas and ran a poor campaign.

[onetexan]

82. i disagree. Beto ran an awesome campaign, but the dark money forces supporting the GOP here are

difficult to overcome. Stacy Abrams lost again in GA. Would you say she ran a bad campaign as well? Both were excellent candidates in very difficult races and under very difficult political situations. I applaud them both for their valiant efforts, and i believe they should keep running for office as they're both young.

[Genki Hikari]

93. No

Just no.

From what little I saw of him, O'Rourke spent plenty of time criticizing Hot Wheels for his horrible policies.

What killed his gubernatorial bid, though, was that remark about taking guns, very early in his campaign. O'Rourke might as well have hung it up, then and there. I've lived in red states most of my life. That's why I knew he would lose when I heard him say it.

That's just how things are in Texas. I think it's stupid that too many of their voters are dumb that way, but reality is what it is.

[MichMan]

94. Not only that, he later reversed himself and said he fully supports the 2nd amendment

Voters didn't believe him

[Jedi Guy]

105. Yep, his campaign was dead in the water the moment those words left his lips.

"Hell yes, we're going to take your guns." The moment he blurted that out, you could practically hear the flatline tone in the background. Beto is a good guy and a hell of a smart guy, but that was 100% an unforced error on his part and a failure to read the room. Gun culture in Texas is extremely strong and the usual suspects pounced on that remark and hammered it relentlessly.

[yellowdogintexas]

109. Beto worked harder than any campaigner I have ever seen

Down here in the grass roots, I can see the changes his 2 campaigns have made in Democratic campaigns and voter turnout. Not enough but definitely more than before.

I think the DNC should hire him to handle campaign training on a national scale.

[MagickMuffin]

98. Are you a resident of Texas? I am and Beto campaigned in every county and advertised as well

There are a lot of reasons Beto didn't win, but Abbott ran a campaign on fear. Fear is a driving force down here with the white supremacist. That and more than half the state will not bother voting. It's such a huge disappointment that that is the case.

In my county only 32% of registered voters went to the polls. That the reality of Texas voters. Makes me frustrated that more people refuse to vote.

[jaxexpat]

108. That's what I remember from my time of residency there.

Lots of people complaining about government but almost no one voting. That scenario is a fertile field for vote tabulation fraud.

Texas politicians have two replies to Texans who question their government:
-Who sent you?
-What is your address?

[yellowdogintexas]

115. actually we run very clean and accurate elections here

Anyone who thinks otherwise just needs to work an election in their county. They will soon find out just what an election team has to do to secure that vote.

We had no complaints of "vote flipping". 54 of our larger population counties have touch screen systems which generate a printed ballot for scanning, and allow the voter to scroll through the screens as many times as needed to be sure they made the choices they intended to make. Even after printing, if the voter has an "Oh No" moment we can void that ballot and give them a new one. That voter's choices are not tallied until the ballot goes in the scanner.

I have worked about 15 elections and from the first one I decided that it may be hard to get to the ballot part in some cases but once you have signed the book or validated the e-poll register your vote is protected and secure. We have a number of procedures to ensure the entire process is safe and correct.

[jaxexpat]

119. I've had this conversation with my sister who works on the county level with the Dem. party.

It always comes back to the fact that there is at least one point in the journey of any vote data where it is transcribed onto a voter-unreadable-memory-device whether integrated into the hardware at the polling place or independent of that device as it is transferred onto another phase of calculation. Intentional malware contamination, wireless conveyance corruption and/or some sort of memory drive slight-of-hand is always possible. There is ultimately only trust in any system. In Texas there are, by my calculation of your testimony, 200 counties that don't provide a printed ballot for scanning.

An absence of "vote flipping complaints" in a state that always elects Republicans by a reliable Republican voting majority is not a surprise. However, if a Democrat were to win statewide election in Texas there may well be a lot of "vote flipping complaints".

Thanks for your work.

[yellowdogintexas]

120. All of our high population counties use them

The only storage location for the total information is the scanner memory. The ballots are kept for 3 years. We run a zero count tape before we open the polls; a copy goes to the elections office and another copy goes home with the lead judge (it must be kept for 3 years)

After we close the polls, another tape is run on the scanner with a copy to the elections and the judge. This is a printed record of the total votes and votes for each candidate.

Total check in is recorded and must match total scanned, which confirms there are no extra or missing ballots.

At election office, data is removed from the scanner by a flash drive and added to the main elections data. Ballots and other documentation is retained for 3 years. The scanner is not equipped to do anything but read, count and saved; they are not programmed to edit and they are all wiped once election is certified. Nothing is on the internet. If anyone demands investigation the paper ballots are there.

It is a terrific system! (and we no longer have to send a voter to a "correct" location or vote them provisionally)

All of the other counties provide a paper ballot on Election Day, hand marked by the voter. Also one can only vote in a specific location, rather than county wide. Scanners still count and produce printed totals; flash drives are still used to transfer data. As far as I know, no info is sent over the internet.

Early voting in those counties does not include printed ballots, but the information is stored on the electronic machine hard drive and transferred by flash drive. Nothing is on the internet.

Everything has a printed tape for end of day totals.

I think Texas does a really good job in the voting part. Access, not so much in some locations.

[yellowdogintexas]

111. You are so right Magick! Fear of losing guns, fear of LGBTQ in general

fear of the border, fear of losing their white privilege (this is the main reason, the rest are subtopics) Throw in the religious right, the Christian Nationalists, forced birthers and you have a formidable voting base. They ALWAYS turn out, with info from the party telling them how to vote. (but of course you already know all this)

Not just Abbott either. All Rs here and in many other states gin this fear up 24/7! In the places they lose, the voters turned out big time especially the Democrats.

Magick, my precinct held at 45% of all registered voters and every office went blue; same for the precincts bordering mine. I am in Wedgwood (SW FW.), and I am lucky. My problem is non voters especially non-primary voters!

For the benefit of out of Texas voters: My precinct has a significant number of registered voters who have (1) never voted at all or (2) last voted in 2008 or (3) only vote in general elections or (4) only vote the top items on the ballot. Our downballot suffers hugely which hurts us badly at the local level. We do not register by party, so if they don't vote in primaries, we can't find them and target our GOTV efforts there. That makes our work 3 times as difficult. This is essentially state-wide.



Are you in Tarrant or Parker? I think we had 40% countywide here.

[MagickMuffin]

114. I'm a Tarrant County life long resident

Grew up on the east side and a Highlander, still in local vicinity. Oldest sister lives in Wedgewood, recently discovered she’s a thumper-trumper! Haven’t talked to her since 9-11.

My precinct always votes against their best interests.




May you have a wonderful and productive New Year yellowdogintexas!!

[yellowdogintexas]

117. I did not realize county wide was only 32%! That explains

a lot of things, especially our local results.

At least my JP and State Representative ran unopposed.

[MagickMuffin]

118. Just checked again, turnout was 47.04

I know the TCDP works extremely hard to get out the vote. It’s unfortunate that people seem to be just fine with the way things are. Power grid failure, no biggy, children being slaughtered while getting an education, again no biggy, shipping people out of state, please continue!

Hopefully some day people will wake up.


TOTAL
47.04%
Ballots Cast
593,172
Registered Voters
1,261,000

[Cosmocat]

110. Dude EVERY statewide elected official in TX is an R - LITERALLY

https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/voter/elected.shtml

I have been saying for over three decades that the overwhelming majority of this country is either full on board with, or is perfectly fine with, right wing corruption, hatred, etc.

There was NO, none, zero debate on who was the better presidential candidate in 2016 - you had a completely immorral and rampantly corrupt scumbag and a decent, honorable and hard working public servant. But, 1/3 of the country voted for the POS and another 1/3 sat it out.

People wanted to blame Hillary, because of this or that, but the choice was THAT clear.

I am sure Beto might have made mistakes, but EVERY candidate makes mistakes. He is a good person, energetic, inspiring and busted his ass.

The choice was pretty clear, as it is with 99% of the Rs today.

[yellowdogintexas]

112. low total turnout and lower percentage of Democratic turnout!

It is better than it was - about 12% higher than 2012 the year Cruz first took office. Still a long way to go.

[wnylib]

33. Might not be received as well

outside of Florida in the 2024 presidential campaign.

Especially if we have videos and interviews with the migrants to use in campaign ads that cite the laws broken.

[Timewas]

42. So winning

Elections makes you above the law? BS.

[Ocelot II]

46. I'm not suggesting that at all.

Of course there should be consequences in addition to losing elections. I just don't get why someone that evil wins them. In this particular situation, the question will be what the people were told to get them on the buses. If they went voluntarily without being deceived or fraudulently induced, prosecuting anyone will be difficult. Some really shitty behavior isn't actually illegal, even if it should be.

[Timewas]

71. I agree

I cannot fathom how any of those asshats get elected, doesn't say much good about our country.... Have to remember that this is about texas, that explains a lot.I have a hard time imagining any truth that would get these people to load up like that...This is transporting people across state lines for whatever purpose. Hard to believe they would go along unless they were promised good things at the end.

The entire deal is reprehensible.

[LeftInTX]

89. If there was suspected fraud/illegal stuff involved, the DOJ would have filed a civil suit/injunctio

The safety of the immigrants would be highest priority. Yet this happens over and over. The DOJ is not stepping in to prevent it.
Laws are written that allow Abbott to get away with this.

I'm sure the DOJ would like to do something about it, but at this point, their hands are likely tied due to the way the laws are written. Asylum seekers have specific rights and responsibilities and Abbott seems to be quite aware of it. He is skirting the law and using it to his advantage. While NGO's often help asylum seekers, the same laws that allow the NGOs to help asylum seekers is now being used by Abbott in a twisted fashion.

[lostnfound]

97. There are never consequences for GOP elected.

The exceptions prove the rule.

[MiHale]

4. No expert but ...

Are they going on the bus voluntarily or are they forced to go. Might make a difference on kidnapping.
Abbot should not be allowed in the human race.

[claudette]

6. Maybe they are being lied to

the way DeSantis lied and promised stuff that was not delivered

[2naSalit]

8. And that nobody...

At the destination is aware they are coming in order to prepare for them.

[claudette]

10. Exactly

He could have asked churches to provide warm clothing for them before sending them to a place that was not prepared for them. It’s wrong to send them to Kamala Harris’ home

[LeftInTX]

14. They should have rounded up insurrectionists and sent them to Abbott's home

Or some Texas homeless people...

[housecat]

100. Great idea. But homeless are vulnerable, so wacko fascists work for me

[2naSalit]

16. It's way beyond wrong.

I hope he has an aneurysm or a heart attack before the day is through, something that incapacitates him so that he can see what's happening but can't respond. Dying's too good for him.

[allegorical oracle]

58. Heard earlier today that the bused folks who arrived at the VP's residence were wearing light

clothing -- tee shirts and jeans. Fortunately, they received blankets to wrap around themselves and were taken to a shelter. Abbott is no better than Putin, imo.

[claudette]

61. So happy to hear

that generous people cared for these people. Abbott is despicable

[stopdiggin]

18. exactly.

Pretty sure they are not being forced on to the bus(es). In earlier incarnations there were claims (with some documentation?) of seriously (fraudulent?) misrepresentation and misleading claims/promises. Not sure if that is still the case with the most recent incidents?

(but 'kidnapping' would be a high bar to clear with what we know so far)

[stopdiggin]

27. I disagree with almost everything you've said here.

(with the possible exception of 'letting a jury decide' - and, even there, I would insist that there need be at least a reasonable/plausible chance of conviction - else it become a waste of time and money, and a misuse of the justice system)

[FakeNoose]

12. Slap him with estoppal lawsuits - "Cease and Desist"

Make some kind of financial penalty if he doesn't adhere. That might slow him down.

[Mr. Ected]

13. The evil residing in their hearts is irreversible

Praying in the church today, preying outside it. If the law doesn't support legal action being taken in these cases, it should. These are human rights violations that demand redress.

[cutroot]

15. Blagojevich was arrested in his home

While governor of Illinois

[2naSalit]

17. THIS!!!

[dchill]

25. Blagojevich is a Democrat.

Whole different set of rules. Ask anyone!

[Duppers]

34. 👍

[FuzzyRabbit]

19. IOKIYAR unfortunately.

[brooklynite]

21. Reality check: not criminal

Nobody’s being forced onto the bus. The driver isn’t transporting anyone who doesn’t want to go.

[dickthegrouch]

23. The only reason they "want" to go

Is they have no concept of what’s waiting (or not) at the other end. There could have been fraudulently promised all kinds of things. Of course it’s criminal to endanger people using lies and inducements that are never going to materialize. Integrity is still a thing. And if it’s not coded into law, it should be.

[stopdiggin]

30. "Integrity is still a thing. And if it's not coded into law, it should be."

Well, that amounted to a big mouthful ... "it should be." Naive - even while probably heartfelt. And you've been around our justice system for how long?
----- -----
Think I have to stick with brooklyn on this one.

[bluestarone]

37. Hope your right. BUT

How does anybody know this to be true? Should this at the very least be investigated by transportation secretary? (if that's the the right person).

[brooklynite]

39. We know because the migrants are asked.

[bluestarone]

65. I'm not doubting what your saying, BUT

I'm 100% sure in my mind that the Gov. of Texas gives absolutely no shit what happens to these people. I would love to see this investigated thoroughly some how! I have no idea how, BUT i would like to see,like a 50 questionnaire filled out by EVERY person coming off these buses. The FBI should know how, and what type questions to ask! Especially how many and who talked to them. Did they have time to make their decisions.

[LeftInTX]

52. They sign waivers

Abbott is pretty good about the "letter of the law" stuff

He's horrible with the "spirit of the law"

If he wasn't getting waivers signed, the feds would probably be taking a serious look at him. As for now, they don't appear to be.

[paleotn]

51. "Want to go" due to fraud possibly?

[brooklynite]

54. Possibly, but not proven so far...

If Texas is telling them “ you’ll be driven to Washington where the Government will take care you”, that’s not far from the truth.

[paleotn]

78. That it is, unfortunately.

[Traildogbob]

26. Take the

Gid damned wheels off of his chair and sit his ass out in the artic deep freeze.

[niyad]

31. May all involved receive everything they deserve.

I have this vision of abbatoir's chair skidding on ice and right into a nice, rocky , steep, ditch.

[nuxvomica]

36. We should be asking the question: "What else is he doing?"

Seriously, if this is the sort of cruelty he has no qualms engaging in publicly, then what sort of crimes might he be committing in the shadows? Someone like that could be secretly shipping migrant children off to some billionaire oil baron's private estate or island for God-knows-what purpose. We don't need to accuse, but there's nothing wrong with just asking these obvious questions.

[Hekate]

38. Start with the bus drivers who are "just following orders," impound the busses, rack up the charges

… right on the spot. Make transportation across state lines a very unpopular job. Make sure news cameras are there.

In other words start with the most doable option and make it very public.

[brooklynite]

41. Make transportation across state lines a very unpopular job."

You want to take employment away from working class Americans?

[Hekate]

43. "I was just following orders" doesn't stir something in your memory? Hm?

It was not accepted as an excuse during the Nuremberg Trials.

[brooklynite]

45. No it doesn't, because the insinuation is "doing something illegal"

There have never been evidence that any migrants were forced on the buses. The driver is hired to transport voluntary passengers.

[moniss]

55. Look back on some of these trips

and you'll come across a couple of the migrants who said they were lied to and they wouldn't have gotten on the bus if they knew that there were no "good paying jobs" waiting for them. Inducement by false pretenses to sign a waiver doesn't cut it legally.

[brooklynite]

62. That is a question for law enforcement, not the DOT

No reason to go after the bus driver.

[moniss]

66. If you read my post I don't think you will

find me saying anything about going after the driver. It is not rational to think that the bus driver is soliciting people to sign waivers. However there is a duty for commercial drivers providing interstate passenger transportation to provide that service in accordance with the laws that are protective of people. Human trafficking using interstate transportation is a huge problem and commercial drivers are supposed to not just turn a blind eye to passengers that are there under questionable circumstances. Saying it's your job to just drive is simply not true. But my guess would be that Abbott looked for a GQP run bus company and is lining their pockets well with a kickback finding its' way to his campaign fund.

Furthermore any management of a bus company is crazy to ever hire drivers that "look the other way" when shenanigans are going on. If the driver will see nothing wrong in the questionable circumstances like this then what else is he game for? Drug runs? Transporting stolen goods?

[LeftInTX]

70. Asylum seekers very frequently take bus trips

I know some people who work with the Interfaith Welcoming Coalition here in San Antonio
https://interfaithwelcomecoalition.org/

Migrants are processed at the border and then are free to use any mode of transportation around the country
They take buses from the border up to San Antonio where the Interfaith Welcoming Coalition is based.
They then stay in the community until they can find sponsor families
Once they find sponsor families, they are sent on buses.

This is why Abbott is able to get away with this. He's using existing laws for nefarious reasons.

[moniss]

73. I hear you

but would point out that the migrant making a decision on their own to take a trip is one thing but these folks seem to have been targeted and bamboozled into thinking that things were waiting for them that the people "arranging the trips and getting signed waivers" knew was baloney. As far as liability goes, if the "arrangers" try to fall back on the idea that they were just repeating what they were told would be the case they would have a responsibility of reasonableness. In other words if you go out on the street selling trips to Jupiter leaving next month you don't escape liability just because the guy running the scam told you that it was true.

The chain of liability for making false promises/representations to these folks goes all the way back to the source of that info. Whoever started the lies rolling will have to defend against that and the only questions that need to be asked in court are "when and how did you verify the claims you made about jobs and conditions before you proceeded further and passed that information to others?" Abbott of course cannot defend it and isn't really worried in any event because he feels there will be no legal repercussions and that he will in fact get a political boost. He's probably right in that assumption but the fact remains that it is illegal to falsely entice or physically coerce someone into being transported across state lines for a financial gain or illegal purpose. The statutes for fraud and/or human trafficking are broad enough to make a case for action by DOJ. Abbott is receiving financial gain from this.

I would just point out that there have been several major migrant labor cases in the last few years where DOJ has used the fraud/trafficking/kidnapping statutes with respect to people similarly making false promises to workers about great jobs if they just go along with them. Then the folks are taken to a place half-way across the country and put under guard while they pick crops etc. Then it's on to the next place. Some of these people had been captive for years. Of course the people doing the guarding/transportation all claimed everybody came of their own free will and were free to leave at any time. Of course they couldn't leave because they had no money because their captors were keeping it so their slaves didn't run off. It was heartbreaking to see video of the ghastly conditions they were kept in and just how badly the physical/mental toll had been on them. Of course the growers/owners all claim they never knew a thing. "Harvest of Shame" never went away. They just got better at dressing it up a little or hiding it altogether.

[LeftInTX]

74. The last paragraph indicates the illegality

They are being held captive and being forced to work. (Obviously they are working illegally) The people holding them captive have broken numerous laws, in particular labor laws.

I would just point out that there have been several major migrant labor cases in the last few years where DOJ has used the fraud/trafficking/kidnapping statutes with respect to people similarly making false promises to workers about great jobs if they just go along with them. Then the folks are taken to a place half-way across the country and put under guard while they pick crops etc. Then it's on to the next place. Some of these people had been captive for years. Of course the people doing the guarding/transportation all claimed everybody came of their own free will and were free to leave at any time. Of course they couldn't leave because they had no money because their captors were keeping it so their slaves didn't run off. It was heartbreaking to see video of the ghastly conditions they were kept in and just how badly the physical/mental toll had been on them. Of course the growers/owners all claim they never knew a thing. "Harvest of Shame" never went away. They just got better at dressing it up a little or hiding it altogether.

[moniss]

88. The ones not being guarded were also prosecuted

under fraud/trafficking statutes.

[Meowmee]

92. Yes

I clearly recall this when this first happened or when it was first publicized a lot, in Cape Cod I believe. They said they were lied to. And yet no one has done a thing about it. Lying to someone to get them to sign a waiver they may not even understand, and to get on a bus to be transported elsewhere with false promises of jobs and help etc. is fraudulent and it endangers them.

[MichMan]

56. Or require them to verify legal status of every passenger before embarking?

[brooklynite]

63. Ah " show us your papers" is always a popular expression.

[MichMan]

64. Never any lack of knee jerk reactions on threads like this

Last edited Mon Dec 26, 2022, 07:25 PM - Edit history (2)

Arresting bus drivers, calling them greedy racists, seizure of buses, massive workplace raids, and charges of attempted murder.

Edit; I was being sarcastic about the driver having to verify immigration status of all passengers. It was a sarcastic response to the comments about arresting the drivers

[Hekate]

81. Along with "I was just following orders." Have we made up our minds yet? Is this inhumane or not?

Could a human rights attorney locate the applicable laws or not? Just curious.

[brooklynite]

87. If the migrants weren't forced on the bus I don't see their legal violation...

And neither does the DOJ despite multiple occurrences. Unless we’re going to add another scarlet letter to AG Garland’s jacket.

[LeftInTX]

90. The DOJ could file a civil suit/injunction to stop this, but they haven't

I'm sure the DOJ would like to do something about it, but at this point, their hands are likely tied due to the way the laws are written. Asylum seekers have specific rights and responsibilities and Abbott seems to be quite aware of it. He is skirting the law and using it to his advantage. While NGO's help asylum seekers, the same laws that allow the NGOs to help asylum seekers are now being used by Abbott in a twisted fashion.

It's inhumane, but it does not seem to be illegal based on the DOJ's non-reaction. If they felt migrants were unsafe, they could have filed a suit in order to stop it.



Maybe a human rights attorney can help. There was a case filed by a human right's attorney after the Massachusetts' fiasco and crickets.

[BunkieBandit]

80. Huh? What?

[Timewas]

40. Apparently

There is a legal line that the elites are above and all of them that get into that category can do as they please with no repercussions.
After all, we are a country based on the rule of laws.... and WE all have to obey them...

[Marius25]

44. Seeing as most of the FBI probably endorses Abbott

why would they?

Law enforcement loves hurting minorities.

[brooklynite]

49. I hate these "of course they would" assertions.

What you’re saying is that no Administrator at the FBI is willing to do something appropriate in criminal justice AND that nobody at DOI is going to require them to AND that the President who nominated the Attorney General and the FBI director is unwilling to do anything either.

Abbott (or DeSantis) is acting immorally, but there’s no evidence of a crime.

[UTUSN]

48. K&R

[moniss]

57. I have long advocated

for the northern states to take our worst case parolees/recently released and do the same thing to Abbott in return. I'd even knock a little time off their parole if they sign up. The condition would be that they must remain in Texas. Abbott doesn't want those he's sending and we don't want the worst case convicts.

[LeftInTX]

68. Yep!

[Blue Owl]

67. I have a feeling VP Harris will take this one personally

Pulling this inhumane, horrid bullshit stunt right in front of her house — I hope she goes ballistic on the fuckers behind this malfeasance…

[Elessar Zappa]

69. Did he commit a crime?

What he did is very cruel and immoral but I’m not sure it’s illegal.

[Skittles]

86. dumping people (including kids) out of state in 14 degree weather when most resources are closed

if it isn't a crime IT SHOULD BE

[diehardblue]

107. Attempted murder!!!

[Elessar Zappa]

116. I definitely agree with you.

[moonshinegnomie]

102. reckless endangerment at the very least

[LetMyPeopleVote]

76. Greg Abbott is an asshole

Link to tweet

[Tarc]

77. The federal government should seize the Texas governors' residence

I don't even care on what grounds. Find something.

Eject those miserable vermin and convert the grounds into an immigrant shelter.

[Kennah]

79. Shoot first. Question later.

[purr-rat beauty]

83. Where's Immigration? DHS?

I am guessing they have tabs on the movement of these individuals/victims?

[LeftInTX]

85. The immigrants are processed at the border and are given a hearing date.

Then, they are on their own.
It is the immigrant's responsibility to show up at their hearing. Fortunately, agencies in NY and DC have been able to reschedule hearings to their new location.

But once they are processed and given their hearing, they are on their own.

There are a few things that they are not allowed to do and if they are caught, they can be deported. But other than that, they are free to live with whomever, shop wherever and live wherever in the US. They are not allowed to work, but many end up with cash paying odd jobs. (Sometimes this leads to their exploitation)

DHS and immigration really don't keep tabs on them. They are expected to show up at their hearings. If they don't, they can be subject to deportation.

[LeftInTX]

91. That would be illegal. Abbott knows what he's doing

Sure it's immoral and disgusting, but Abbott pretty much knows he isn't breaking the law.

Only the federal government can deport people.

[twodogsbarking]

95. Assuming the FBI wasn't in on it.

[OldBaldy1701E]

96. What the hell, I will chime in...

I say start massing federal troops in the states that border Texas. Put them as close to the state line as possible. Let Abbot stew about what the feds are up to. Do not tell him anything about why they are there. But, keep on hammering him about his immoral and unethical actions. (Screw if they are 'legal' or not. We have a long history of things being completely immoral but completely legal. We have a long history of things being completely moral and ethical but are illegal. One has to navigate the laws in this country at all times because one has no idea what may be illegal or not... mainly because logic and reason no longer have any influence on our legal system. There have been times I have done what was right but it was illegal. More importantly, there have been times when I know something was legal, but I did not do it because it was morally reprehensible. That's life in these United States.) And, basically hint that there will be repercussions if he does not stop. Let that idiot and his equally idiotic followers wake up each morning wondering if the feds will 'invade'. Stir them up so that they do something really stupid and illegal and we can remove that blight on humanity and maybe get some sense back into Texas.

(Then, we can start on my home state of North Carolina. Anything to break that stranglehold on the Assembly.)

[moonshinegnomie]

101. also he claims to be a catholic

the church should also excommunicate him.

[Emile]

103. Republicans say we are weak on crime?

[IronLionZion]

113. Keeping them from their asylum hearings in Texas

and human trafficking

[seabiscuit5920]

121. Abbot aided in an abortion

The unfortunate pregnant woman who got caught in the razor wire that Abbot had installed causing her to to have a miscarriage. Shouldn't Abbot be arrested under Texas law concerning aiding an abortion??