Does ANYONE understand why people are being allowed to die trapped in cars ?

[SorellaLaBefana]

Surely there are thousands of people in the impacted areas who have snowmobiles and snowshoes—entirely leaving aside the police and military resources which are—or which SHOULD be—available.

You might recall that much the same happened last January with people similarly trapped near our nation's capital.

Grew up in Ohio. Know snow and cold. Not only lived with it but enjoyed downhill/xc skiing, snowshoeing, a little snowmobiling and even snow camping. Have wintered in Fairbanks and Kalispell. I simply do not understand WHY people are being abandoned and allowed to die in cars in heavily populated regions of our country.

Lots of hand-wringing, prayers and breathless reporting: but WHAT is being DONE to rescue those trapped?

[Ray Bruns]

1. I think you are underestimating the severity of the storm.

[GoCubsGo]

27. As well as overestimating the number of people who have snowmobiles or snowshoes.

And, those who have them may not be in the proximity of the highways where people are stuck. Or, they might be using their gasoline to run a generator to keep their own family from freezing to death.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Disaster response has been sorely underfunded at the local, state and national level for decades.

Disaster response that accounts for climate crisis costs a lot of money. The privatization that's gone on in some response services, such as plowing, doesn't help, either.

[Meowmee]

68. True

[hlthe2b]

3. Geez, DO you not realize that hundreds of EMERGENCY WORKERS were likewise

stuck in their vehicles unable to help anyone? That there were blizzard white-out conditions at times which meant any fool who went out on foot, x-country skis or snowshoes, or even snowmobiles could be disoriented and lost--only to be one of the numerous found dead in snowbanks. And what were they to do (on foot) once they reached a person in a car with snowbanks to their chest or higher? Please do some reading. As one who has spent time stuck on a frozen I-70 and I-25 during heavy heavy snowstorms with WIND in Colorado, I definitely get it.

I also get that you (and all of us) find this story disturbing because it underscores that we can be vulnerable despite the best emergency resources available in this country. But you seem to not have grasped the true situation in Buffalo and Eerie. Have you ever experienced the worst of lake-effect blizzards? 70 mph winds? 6-foot or higher snow drifts?

I appreciate your sadness and I share it. But don't blame those trying their best in a worst-ever record blizzard emergency. And I am convinced they did everything possible as they have likewise done in decades of less serious storms.

[Ferrets are Cool]

6. ...

[Jack the Greater]

8. Thank you for explaining this in a civil tone.

Something I may not have be able to maintain had I attempted to explain it.

[hatrack]

15. Same things in hurricanes - once the wind rises to a certain speed, you're on your own

And if you call 911, they'll tell you exactly that. They're not going to send out emergency personnel when there's at least as good a chance of them dying as of pulling off a successful rescue.

[Native]

25. That's assuming you can even get a call through!

[tenderfoot]

16. The OP is infuriating.

eom

[obamanut2012]

84. As someone who lives in hurricane country, same

People have no idea how there is a time during severe storms when there is a tipping point. A point where no one can be safely saved.

[we can do it]

18. Thank you.

[2naSalit]

42. +100 x millions.

[treestar]

46. thank you

why some people have to interpret everything to be some sort of evil deliberately done to people.

[KS Toronado]

63. Spot on !

[thomski64]

4. ..in a blizzard you can't see shit..

..no one was allowed to die, people who ignored the driving ban for whatever reason, who hadn't filled their tanks beforehand, who endangered first responders lives , ambulances couldn't see either, snow plows went in the ditch or got stuck
The mayor, the county executive, the governor and others were on tv well well beforehand imploring people to stay home. The weather reports were way out in front of this. I'm sorry, but i can't agree that people are "allowed " to die when they make horrible decisions.

[2naSalit]

44. THIS

Shit, in my state, they told us about this storm coming about a week ahead of time so we could prepare.

Most of those people decided to take their chances and lost. Makes me wonder where the op author lives.

Vacationing in a winterland is not the same as living in on year after year.

If people can;t be inters ted enough to pay attention to the world outside and how it impacts their well-being, they are risking their own lives, it shouldn't be up to others to risk life and limb to save them from themselves.

The op author appears to have never seen real bad winter weather.

[treestar]

49. thank you

reminds me of people who don't leave a country when the State Department says and then it's all the government's fault they are still there and it is tougher to get them out and they are entitled to have made it so much tougher.

[Shellback Squid]

5. it would be nice to have the population work together in a co-ordinated fashion

to search abandoned cars and locate those exposed to the elements..................but the rescuers needed rescuing, pay attention to the news

[Scrivener7]

7. You've never seen anything like this. Mother nature

has decided to show us she's more powerful than us and our means of thwarting her.

All those thousands with snowshoes and snowmobiles going out on rescue missions would be a great way to make the death toll jump far and fast.

[2naSalit]

48. +1

[Historic NY]

9. Do you think 4ft of snow is easy to navigate through

people die in the cars when the exhaust get plugged with snow. I've been in the NY north back country in a blizzard, a normal 1.5 hr trip took more than 8 hours in a big old tank Oldsmobile. We mostly tried to follow trucks because we could see it.

[AkFemDem]

10. And this is why authorities

Are telling people to shelter in place. Not only are they putting their own lives in danger, they are endangering those would be rescuers. Police, fire, paramedics, local good ole boys with snow machines are not super human, they’re not immune to also dying in those elements.

[localroger]

11. Snowmobiles are not as common in urban areas.

Not much use for a 500 pound machine that's made to run around a frozen forest when you live in a city.

And transporting such equipment from where it's more often used is precluded by the road conditions. Plus having reached a buried car you have to dig it out, then transport the people you've rescued to a place of safety, again without any normal emergency service vehicles being operable.

[Kaleva]

12. How would emergency workers get to their work places?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. Snowshoes and snowmobiles are not evenly distributed and not automatically mobilized

Further, not everyone trapped in a car is in a high visibility location like a town street. And how many of them died quickly from carbon monoxide?

Yet more: if you do mobilize citizen snowmobiles and snowshoes, how many of those would be ill-prepared and how many of them would need rescue or die?

Most cars are abandoned. But every one has to be checked. That can require digging through drifts to reach it and scraping windows to shine flashlights in to check for bodies. How long would that take for each car?

How long to walk between cars on country roads?

Snowmobiles generally require packed snow, not fresh mountainous six foot drifts with three foot deep snow in between. It's probably pretty powdery but freezing in place so that it impedes travel but doesn't support weight of snowmobiles.

Stuff is not as simple as people like to think.



But your post is not hand wringing?

[2naSalit]

54. The details seem to...

Escape a lot of people when it comes to issues like this.

Also, people don't heed warnings because they feel invincible, especially in a new SUV. Or, "I'm not gonna let a weather problem keep me from my plans" attitude. Seen that more than anything else.

[Greybnk48]

14. Knee high or higher snow, gale force winds, almost zero visibility.

Not a chance to help.

Some people have never experienced this and don't realize outside rescue can become impossible.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

17. Stupid people die, it happens, stay off the roads in a fucking blizzard! Or survive on your OWN!

Fucking idiots should have a survival kit/strategy, don't expect fucking help when you run into a ditch in the snow in a whiteout fucking blizzard.

[tenderfoot]

19. You seem nice

And so above it all.

[AntivaxHunters]

22. Nice lack of compassion & empathy

What a disgusting comment.
Are you sure you're on the right forum?

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

29. My empathy ends where your stupidity begins, like "riding out" a Cat 4 hurricane on a barrier island

Then you want others to risk their lives saving your dumb ass

[CentralMass]

43. As an example tjere are people who need the paycheck and could be in a work or don't get paid

scenario who can't afford to miss a day and make a bad choice of chancing it.

[Mariana]

81. Even they can probably afford to throw a few blankets in the car.

It's not like this kind of thing has never happened before.

?crop=1274,720,x0,y60&width=1274&height=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp

[AntivaxHunters]

53. Judging people ain't it

and this lacks any sort of class consciousness at all.

It must be nice to be so privileged & entitled to have the financial means to be able to get out of a storm's way.
And what about those who are sick, disabled, and have mobility issues?
Next time do better.

[USALiberal]

62. Another expert!!!

[treestar]

51. how much compassion for the emergency workers?

having to rescue people who were told not to put themselves in those positions? And then having to hear criticism of them for not being able to do it all?

[AntivaxHunters]

56. How about the sick, disabled, poor, elderly

who can't get out?

[tenderfoot]

67. How about people that were headed home from work when the storm hit?

eom

[LuckyCharms]

24. Whoa! Easy there!

Life is different when you're not behind a keyboard.

Not trying to slam you here...but things happen, and no one is to blame.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

31. Weather kills all the time, you ignore the risks and perils of mother nature on your own

[LuckyCharms]

41. Oh.

[treestar]

52. we are to blame if we disregard

safety advice, like don't go out in the storm. Or leave x or y country now. Or don't go to North Korea and then do something stupid. Don't take drugs to foreign countries known not to have good justice systems.

[LuckyCharms]

57. Broad brush.

Have you ever had to rush someone to the hospital during dangerous weather?

Have you ever had an emergent situation during hazardous weather when you weighed the risks of travelling and decided that it was more important for you to be on the road, handling that situation rather than sheltering in place?

Have you ever simply been ignorant of upcoming weather because of any reason...maybe a death in the family has had you preoccupied?

Not every one who was trapped was stupid or foolish.

[treestar]

58. then you knew you made that decision to go anyway

and thus might not trash the emergency people if they can't get to you right away if it goes wrong.

[LuckyCharms]

59. Everything is so easy on the internet.

May you never have to find out about things like this the hard way some day.

Best wishes.

[Mariana]

85. Tell it to the OP

who seems to think it's a piece of cake to rescue people who are trapped in their cars during a blizzard.

[tenderfoot]

93. The hit and run OP that goes skiing in the winter and knows all

[tenderfoot]

65. Just got word that a friends mom froze to death in her car trying to get home from work.

Her body discovered yesterday by a kind hearted citizen on snowmobile.

Feel better now?

[Scrivener7]

89. Oh, God, no. I'm so sorry.

[tenderfoot]

92. Thank you.

Another friend of a friend knew one of the people that was found outside!

I'm sure there was a random few that threw caution to the wind with a "don't tell me what to do!"/"It won't be THAT bad." attitude but most people were caught off guard in that the conditions worsened while they were trying to get home from work or they were tourists/family visiting for the holidays and not familiar with that kind of weather.

Some of the responses in this thread are disgusting.

[electric_blue68]

95. Oh, no. Strength to your poor friend, and you How horifying

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. It's not always stupidity. Sometimes it's luck (or lack thereof), desperation, or simply ignorance.

Believing it's stupidity definitely feels good, though.

[DashOneBravo]

94. My friend had to get his child

When his teenager drove during a bad storm.

[Johnny2X2X]

20. Hundreds were rescued

There was a massive coordinated effort. However some were too buried or remote or hidden.

[yardwork]

21. Thank you for adding some facts to this thread.

Both the OP and many responses are examples of emotions running on little data.

[hlthe2b]

32. Facts: EMS delays, broken heating systems,other blizzard conditions push Buffalo winter storm's

This weekend's winter storm Elliot has become the most lethal blizzard that Buffalo, New York, has seen in at least 100 years.

At least 27 people have died in the city as of 4 p.m. on Dec. 26, said Erie County executive Mark Poloncarz, in what Gov. Kathy Hochul called the "blizzard of the century."

In a post on Facebook, Poloncarz said 14 of those were found dead outside, another four people died from being trapped inside without heat, and 3 died because emergency services could not get to them. Three people died inside their car, and three died from cardiac events while shoveling, according to the post.

Freezing temperatures, hurricane-like winds and over four feet of snow wreaked havoc since Friday filling the Christmas holiday with tragedy in the western New York city, home to nearly 277,000.

https://www.insider.com/death-toll-in-buffalo-winter-storm-2022-12?amp=

THis is lake effect snow in Erie County:
https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/_aoaVR4IoBYdDCcCrCZCgA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTcyMDtjZj13ZWJw/https://media.zenfs.com/en/insider_articles_922/e36e010a69de35f49eea880752a57cc7

For those thinking they can snowshoe or snowmobile in drifts surpassing 6 feet to save those buried in cars in double-digit SUBZERO temps, you have no clue.



Here's what zero visibility looks like
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/weather/here%E2%80%99s-what-%E2%80%98zero-mile%E2%80%99-visibility-looks-like-as-blizzard-hits-buffalo/vi-AA15FdYZ?t=9&category=foryou

And here, some FACTS on what really happened--bring your own "emotion"

The storm competes with the Blizzard of 1977, which killed 29 people. As of Tuesday morning, this storm had killed at least 28 people in Erie County. The number could continue to rise as search-and-rescue efforts continue and additional snowfall is in the forecast for Tuesday.

People were found dead in their cars, in their homes without power and in snowbanks. Delayed EMS response likely contributed to the deaths as excessive snow slowed emergency responders. Forecasts show up to 2 more inches of snow could fall Tuesday and further hinder recovery efforts, according to the National Weather Service (NWS).

An arctic blast accompanied by severe winds and blizzard conditions hit a large swath of the United States over the weekend. More than half of the fatalities as a result of the storm occurred in Erie County. Heavy snowfall soon made roads impassable over the weekend, and many were stranded in the cars as the storm battered the area. Power also failed for thousands but had been restored for most by Tuesday morning, according to an outage map.

Honestly, I do not get some people here... That they were able to save as many as they did speaks to unparalleled dedication.

[yardwork]

33. Agreed. That's why I appreciated the post to which I responded.

Many, many people were rescued. There are, no doubt, thousands of stories of heroism, great and small. First responders, military, ordinary people doing decent, kind, brave things to help one another. Inevitably, some couldn't be saved. It's remarkable how many were saved.

And now there's more snow on its way.

[GenThePerservering]

23. "Enjoyed" skiing and playing in the snow

is a little different than being trapped in a hellish, blinding blizzard.

[EarthFirst]

26. Here's some perspective on your tirade...

What were they supposed to do?

Link to tweet

[KS Toronado]

101. This photo reminds me of the worst blizzard I was in.

About 14 inches of snow in 24 hours with 40 mph winds, early 1971 Kansas. Dad warned me to check under
the hood before attempting to start anything, opened the hood on my '58 Impala and there was the impression
of the bottom side of the hood in tightly packed snow. So start digging, about half hour to remove everything
from top of engine and in front of & behind radiator before starting.

People who were unfortunate enough to have their vehicles start but never checked under the hood first,
got an education with their repair bills for overheating their engines. Even in extreme cold weather an engine
needs air flow through the radiator, without it you warp cylinder heads and other damage from overheating.

[patphil]

28. I used to live in northern New York, and have experienced some very wild winter weather.

It's extremely dangerous for anyone out there, including rescue personnel. There comes a time in a storm when even the rescue crews are pulled back to protect them.
Conditions make it impossible to move. Plowed roads look like they haven't been touched an hour after they were plowed. Drifting can cover a car and make it nearly impossible to find.
It can be like a frozen hurricane out there, and, just like in a normal hurricane, there comes a time when it's impossible to do rescue work.
Once it's over, there is a lot of work just to get the roads open to allow searching for vehicles with people still in them...thousands of vehicles stranded, and finite resources to do the work of moving snow and vehicles off the roads to allow passage.

It's a horror show, and people stuck out in this mess can and do die.

[CTyankee]

35. Methinks some inebriating drinks have been involved in some of these accidents. Judgments get

clouded that might otherwise not be.

[Scrivener7]

74. Not necessarily. Two members of my extended family were lost in a storm recently. They

were coming home from work and it just came on too hard and too fast for them to get out of its way.

Sometimes, especially with climate change, you make one decision that would have been perfectly reasonable at any time in your past. Like take the 20 minute trip home and expect you'll make it before things get too bad. And then you find yourself in a situation where there truly are no good choices, and you just can't save yourself.

[CTyankee]

79. You are right, of course. I meant around holiday time when people might be drinking more than

they usually would. what you describe would be pretty awful and I am aware that they happen. Now that I am old, I stay in when the weather is that bad.

[Scrivener7]

83. I was never particularly cowed by the weather because in the past it just

didn't get as wild as it does now. Since that incident, I'm with you: I get myself home and stay there long before any storms hit.

[Niagara]

80. From what I know is that:

Several bodies have been found in snowbanks near the end of their driveways. One man in Lockport died from carbon monoxide poisoning feeding into his home, most likely from a propane heater.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/buffalo-death-toll-reaches-32-in-brutal-christmas-weekend-storm-as-bodies-turn-up-in-snowbanks-iced-in-cars/ar-AA15IMhu

There were power outages in the Buffalo area, so if residents effected by the power outages had any type of propane heater trying to stay warm, they could now be dead from carbon monoxide poisoning. There was a travel ban enacted, and the last body count that I know of they found 18 deceased people in their vehicles. I'm going to assume that's from carbon monoxide poisoning as well, but I have no evidence of that fact. Some had medical emergencies and no one could get to them. It's devastating to hear that those deceased found in vehicles just couldn't stay at home or someplace safe.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/blizzard-of-the-century-death-toll-rises-buffalo-driving-ban-enforced-by-military/ar-AA15EGQA?cvid=f8077bf614de4610b99d5949e1977fa6

Poloncarz said Tuesday morning that while three new storm-related deaths were confirmed overnight by the Erie County Medical Examiner's Office, the death toll in Erie County rose by only one because the coroner determined the first two people reported dead during the storm in the Buffalo suburb of Cheektowaga were not directly related to the blizzard but due to "medical conditions that were not savable."

Among the storm-related causes of death confirmed by the Erie County Medical Examiner's Office were three people who suffered heart attacks while shoveling or blowing snow, 14 people who were found outside and three who died due to an EMS delay.

"We do expect that there will be more," Poloncarz said.

Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown said 18 bodies were recovered in the city of Buffalo; most were found by police inside vehicles.

[Niagara]

36. No one allowed people to die in trapped cars.

As of Friday December 23rd, all the major roads and thruways were closed including I-190, I-290, Routes 400, 33 and 219 and the Peace Bridge. A travel ban was enacted as well in Erie and Niagara Counties.


The majority of roads were impassable. There were police cruisers stuck in the blizzard as well as firetrucks. There were no emergency services during the white out conditions, wind gusts of up to 79mph and 10 foot snow drifts in some areas. Not everyone that died was stranded in their vehicles, some of the deceased were found in snowbanks while they were shoveling their driveways.


There were several warming shelters that were available and unfortunately two of those shelters lost power and the people who were hunkered down in the shelters had to moved to other shelters.


Reed Timmer and Brandon Copic were out on Saturday in a team separate trucks helping, towing and driving stranded motorists to shelters. Neither one of these wonderful storm chasers didn't ask for anything in return.


Gov. Hochul deployed the National Guard on Christmas Eve. Joe Biden is giving the Buffalo area federal assistance.


It's devastating storm that we endured here in Buffalo, honestly your OP isn't helping anyone.

[XanaDUer2]

37. I wonder how many were

You-better-come-to-work-or-else scenarios.

[Hortensis]

38. Others have covered the misconception here. I was just remembering

how far from death most people live long lives these days, life so secure that when accidental deaths happen they can seem dreadfully WRONG, demanding accounting, instead of mourned as tragic.

THAT's strange.

Until very recently, less than a century, death was far closer every day and people lived every day with that reality amid reports of new deaths. They didn't have the same comfortable surety of living to be old, or even through the next winter's illnesses, or even next week.

Babies and children are fragile and deaths among them were normal, expected. Those who survived childhood had a 50% chance of an average lifespan of 55 (the other half didn't make it). Two centuries ago, the average was closer to 30.

Infectious diseases often hit somewhere around and took out dozens or hundreds, sometimes whole families, healthy one week, gone the next. A horror that could strike at any time.

Accidents, of course. "Don't run with scissors" was a saying because it killed. Right at home in the middle of safety, a sudden punctured peritoneum usually caused horrible agonizing death.

Wars killed many, many, many more soldiers and the unfortunates in war's way than now.

Famines, unheard of in today's advanced nations, were once normal.

Etc.

And of course, storms were far more dangerous and killed many more people. No radar to warn of their coming well ahead of time, no phones, no GPS, just dad one day one year disappearing between the house from the barn.

[hlthe2b]

40. Good points...

Made all the more true given the past three years of Science (COVID) denial and intentionally refusing life-saving precautions in the name of ideology/politics.

And now, right on schedule, Ohio is seeing major measles outbreaks--which do, indeed kill unvaccinated children.

And of course, the denial evidenced by aggressive drivers every day on the nation's highways...

Life is not assured but the wise take precautions when possible.

[treestar]

55. +1 million zillion

[MineralMan]

66. +1000

[Zeitghost]

39. Because having a bunch of untrained "rescuers"

Out on snow shoes will only lead to more deaths.

[sarisataka]

69. That was my first thought

Having thousands of random "rescuers" going out independently and uncoordinated to look for dozens of trapped drivers will lead to hundreds of additional rescues needed.

[MineralMan]

45. Have you ever experienced a blizzard like the one there?

I doubt it very much. Nobody can get through those roads at the peak of the blizzard, nor for some time afterwards. Emergency vehicles are not exempt from that problem.

It is not always possible to search for and rescue people in such conditions. I'm sure every possible effort was made.

[CentralMass]

61. +1

I've ed seen some extreme winter weather over the year having lived in New England.
There was the blizzard of '78 that was far worse then had originally been forecasted. My father was at work by the time they were told they could leave it was already very bad. He had a coworker with a bad heart who was afraid if he got stuck in it he would maje it si my father stayed at work with him. A state of emergency was called and people were told to stay off the roads. When that was lifted I think it was two day later my brother and I who were in high school drove into try and get my father out of there. We had to park about a half a mile way at the start of the Industrial park where he worked because the road was not plowed. As we walked passed the building at the start of the road we saw the antennas of cars sticking out of the snow. The snow had drifted that high over the cars parked in front if the building. Fortunately shortly after we made it to his building a big crew of Mack 10 wheelers with plows and some rossd sanders came in and cleared the road and oarking lot.

[MineralMan]

64. Well, I live in Minnesota now, after living most of my life in California.

We get a lot of snow some years, but never anything like the area around Buffalo has had. We just hole up until the plows have dealt with it. When a big storm is predicted, I make sure we have enough stuff for the duration.

It's hard for some people to really comprehend what a 4 ft. snowfall and blizzard is like. Everything grinds to a halt. Even heavy equipment can't get through. They get things cleared up eventually, but going out in a blizzard is really a foolhardy thing to do. Not only do you risk your own safety, you risk the safety of emergency responders. At some point, everything stops until it's safe to venture out to look for people who have made the mistake of trying to get through the storm.

That some people have died in that storm is terrible. I'm sure the emergency responders feel that more than anyone, because they understand how dangerous things are out there. But, if the responders get trapped by the blizzard, they can't help anyone.

Several people in this thread have tried to point that stuff out, but it goes unheard by some.

[CentralMass]

73. My brother went o school in the upper peninsula in Michigan.

We encountered some heavy lake effect snow off the great lakes. On one trip I remember tgst on the way up through New York it was in the 60.'s but we hit blizzard condition in Michigan around Greylock or Gayloard and had to pull into a Holiday Inn for the night. We were dropping my brother off. On the return trip it took my father and I about 12 hours to make it from Buffalo to Massachusetts.

[Genki Hikari]

50. Back when I lived in San Antonio

Most of us who lived on the Northside knew one thing to be true:

If it's raining, or even hinting at it, stay off Dreamland Road.

The advice to stay away would apply to several roads in San Antonio (quite hilly on the North side so prone to flash floods), but it seemed like Dreamland was the one most likely to require an emergency rescue because it brought the meaning flash to flash flood more than just about any other street in town. It could become 8 feet deep in water at its low point in a matter of seconds, if it were raining hard enough.

Storm after storm, year after year, people just would not learn that you were taking your chances if you took Dreamland during the wrong conditions. I doubt that has changed.

I don't know why people think they won't be the ones who need the rescue, but, storm after storm, there they are. They can always make it to where they need to be, just hold my beer and watch.

[LeftInTX]

72. Oh yeah, lots of places like that!

My parents lived near McAllister Park, we had to avoid Jones Maltzberger during rain.

Fortunately, we now have bridges over most of our low water crossings. ( The parks even have bridges now. OP Schnabel got a bridge at French Creek a few years ago near the park's main entrance.) There are also numerous foot bridges on Leon Creek. There is even a beautiful pedestrian expansion bridge. We now have several hundreds of miles of trails!



I'm sure Dreamland has improved. There have been lots of improvements all over town. That area is really bustling with the Alon Center and Hardberger Park. It's also the heart of SA's Jewish community. There is also the new wildlife bridge that goes over Wurzbach Pkwy. ( Wurzbach now goes all the way to Thousand Oaks.)

However, the RR tracks at Delgado and Medina were a rude awakening recently. I felt like I was going back to the 80s.

[onenote]

60. Textbook hit and run post.

[tenderfoot]

70. +1

eom

[maxsolomon]

78. 62 prior posts.

Sure looks like they were trying to stir the shit.

[liberal_mama]

71. I live in Buffalo, NY. Do you? If not, I'm not sure you understand the ferocity of this blizzard.

Ambulances and rescue vehicles were stuck. There was zero visibility and high winds. People went out, got disorientated, and died in the snow drifts. I've lived in Buffalo my entire 54 years and this has been the worst blizzard since the one in 1977. I'm actually surprised that only 30 people have died in Erie County during this storm. I feared there would be 100s dead.

Some mistakes were made. The grocery stores and other businesses should not have been open on Friday once the storm started. My husband's employer closed in advance of Friday. A lot of the people were stranded in their cars while trying to get home from their jobs.

[Scrivener7]

75. My sister is up there with you. Stay safe. Are you doing OK?

[liberal_mama]

87. We were very lucky to have our power stay on, but what a terrifying storm it was!

They are still trying to clear the streets and checking on people whose 911 calls went unanswered.

It was so much worse for the people who lost power. Ours flickered out a few times, but came back on within a few minutes. Did your sister lose power?

[Scrivener7]

88. Nope. She had power all the way through. Lost it for an hour or so

in that November storm so she saw what it could be like, so she was pretty happy.

She texted that the travel restrictions outside of Buffalo proper have been lifted! She's in Orchard Park.

That task of checking on people who called 911 must be a horrible one.

[liberal_mama]

90. I'm glad she was lucky with the power too. The posts on the Facebook Buffalo Blizzard group on

Facebook were horrifying with people freezing in their homes with no lights or heat and stranded in cars, running out of gas. It was amazing that power stayed on for anybody. The wind gusts were terrifying and there was 0 visibility.

[Scrivener7]

91. I can't even imagine.

[Hekate]

76. Welcome to DU, SorellaLaBefana. I hope you read all the replies -- lots off info there.

Stay warm.

[SorellaLaBefana]

96. Yes. Lots of information

There is also a strong current of victim blaming running through a sea of assumption and vitriol.

Like many commentators, I've little sympathy for people who deliberately get into extreme situations and then expect someone to come, at risk of their own lives, to rescue them. Such examples are legion, and I've been one of the pissed-off rescuers

However, in this situation most of those trapped were simply going to or from work. Sure, there were some who foolishly decided that they just had to make a run to the store as the storm closed in and am certain that there were even a few who decided to head out for an exciting drive in the storm—perhaps hoping get a viral social media video out of it.

The vast majority of those trapped were people who, for one reason or another, did not feel that they could simply take a "snow day" from their work, or who made the bad decision that the storm would not be as bad as forecast.

They ended up stranded.

Stranded not in trackless wilderness, nor in open fields, but along well demarcated highways packed with other trapped vehicles. It was known where they were.

Many years ago on a forty-below Arctic night I stood in a howling storm. Looking down I could barely make out my bunny boots through the horizontally blowing snow. The person whom I had stopped to help up and I were now alone. My companion thought we should set off in what 'had' to be the right direction.

I knew our only hope was that, upon reaching the shelter to which we were headed—perhaps a quarter of a mile away—the Innuit villagers would realize we were missing and would come back for us. After about half an hour we saw flashlights. Survived the experience with only some frostbite—because people took the risk to rescue us.

[Mysterian]

102. Your experience does not relate to a densely populated urban environment

I've been through Mountain Warfare course and been in snow too. If you've never been in lake effect snow, you don't know what you're talking about.

[NickB79]

77. Short of deploying tracked military vehicles

Nothing is getting through 4 feet drifts of snow.

I'm in Minnesota. At the start of every winter, we pack out winter bags. Extra gloves, socks, hats, blankets, heat packs, snacks. If there's a hint of bad weather, you gas up the car. You wear layers under your big jacket. You wear your extra insulated boots. You have a plan for if things go sideways.

I've slept the night in my car in -20F weather thanks to a blizzard and no plows or tow trucks available. Not fun, but not lethal if proper precautions are taken.

[chriscan64]

82. I went through Katrina and had it way easier than this.

Flood waters can be crossed by boat or you can swim if the distance is short enough. I have been through blizzards and it is different. Visibility is poor and frame of reference is lost, especially when the snow is deep like we have here. Checking every car involves going street by street and it is hard to tell where the streets begin and end.

I know it brings little comfort, but something is being done. The fact of the matter is that the physics and logistics make it too difficult to save them all. Nobody is allowing them to die, it is just inherent in the nature of the disaster.

[ForgedCrank]

86. I've had

to navigate stuff like this in the past. Even if you have a sled, the obstacles are very treacherous. Contrary to what many believe, even a snowmobile will get stuck in very deep and powdery snow, and they are heavy, not something you can just drag out yourself in many cases. The main roadways become impassible, and there are many dangers involved in going off-road in a blizzard or the dark, fences etc, all things that will kill you right quick, and you can't see it coming.
In heavy blowing conditions, stranded cars also get buried in the drifting and you can't even see them. Many have been killed by plow operators who had no idea there was a vehicle buried in their path.
I'm sure that many lives were also saved, but there are only so many resources and persons with the abilities and equipment required to go out and do it all while coming back alive themselves.
It's a dangerous game all around.
In my opinion, the question we should be asking is why were those people out on the roads to begin with. I won't belittle the dead, but I would think that in a lot of cases, they made the misguided decision to go out on the roads when they shouldn't have. This is the thing we should be actively addressing.

[Skittles]

98. snow killing people in freaking BUFFALO NEW YORK

tells me that was ONE HELL OF A HELLISH STORM

[BumRushDaShow]

99. Back in 1996 (Jan. 7 - 8), many of us in the PA-NJ-DE area

and north up the east coast, experienced a significant snow event (blizzard) that was extremely impactful to the urban areas. As a weather hobbyist for over 50 years, here in Philly, we got a record-breaking 30.7" 1-day total after days of predictions of maybe "3 - 5", then 4" - 8", then 8" - 12", and so on leading to what essentially caused TWC to continually "add colors" (for snow totals) to their forecast maps.

It's one thing having drifts out in rural areas and another in densely-built urban areas with narrow streets.



vimeo.com/44532424

We really had no place to put it except the rivers (that then got clogged) -



Even though Buffalo typically gets something like 95" annual snowfall (Philly has an average of about 22" ), they are NOT the big snow receiver of the area (which falls on places like Rochester and other spots situated at differing angles abutting the lakes). It's just how the prevailing winds occur that generally "saves" them. The fact that the type of cold that happened with this event was anomalous for this early in the season, was something that did not help. I.e., Lake Erie was not frozen over yet, let alone had much if any frozen sections, meaning the lake was "open for business" for lake effect snow if the conditions were right. And those "conditions" ended up being a low that experienced "bombogenesis" (rapid intensification with the lowering of the pressure) that helped to generate the strong gradient to produce the winds that would whip across Lake Erie directed towards Buffalo (versus other locations that normally get those winds).

Link to tweet

NOAA Satellites
@NOAASatellites
·
Follow
.@NOAA’s #GOESEast 🛰️ is keeping watch over a powerful winter storm pushing #Arctic air through the eastern U.S. this morning.

This imagery includes satellite-derived winds at different levels in the atmosphere. Red is high-level, blue mid-level, and yellow is low-level wind.
10:47 AM · Dec 23, 2022

In November 2014, Buffalo experienced 2, back-to-back lake effect storm events that deposited a total some 7 ft of snow.

This is just another "face of climate change".

[Renew Deal]

100. The same thing that allows people to die at all.