Are SouthWest Airlines Problems Because Of The Markets They Service And Because Those....

[global1]

airports might not be as equipped to deal with the weather problems we've experienced this last week?

[SoCalDavidS]

1. I Heard On The Radio Today That It Has To Do With Their Systems

They were unable to route pilots & planes properly to where they were each needed, due to their communication systems.

[Lovie777]

2. Really?.....

[SoCalDavidS]

5. Yes, The Report Said Their Systems Are Outdated

They never invested in updating them, and as a result, unable to deal with problems like this.

It was pointed out that the storms pretty much ended last Saturday, yet Southwest is still having massive problems, and don't expect to return to normal until at least Saturday.

[hlthe2b]

3. Let's see... United's major hubs are Chicago and Denver, so.... no

Southwest serves many of the same markets, and has been having labor problems for months now and computer problems even longer.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

4. It's more of an issue of short staffing and their version of

Just in time shipping. Except instead of shipping, it's moving personnel. All airlines do this. They schedule out their staff based on the flight schedules. If flights are delayed then the people on those flights, who are scheduled for another flight in their destination city, cause further delays down the line. If this happens too many times, then you get a cascading failure as flight crews get struck on other airports. Pretty much every airline has had a meltdown in the past year. The bad weather may have kicked it off, but the real issue is they are short on flight crews and don't have many substitutes available if crews get stuck or delayed in another airport. And their scheduling system isn't great at dealing with a lot of disruptions

[Ocelot II]

6. Sounds more like a crew scheduling problem.

There are strict FAA rules about crew duty days, and combine that with crews out of place due to delays or cancellations so all required crew members can't make their next flight, and scheduling becomes extremely complicated. For example, if a scheduled pilot is delayed at a distant airport they will either have to wait until they show up or find another one who is current and qualified on the aircraft and can complete the flight within the limits of their duty day. Or if a particular aircraft type requires four flight attendants and one is missing, that flight can't depart until a substitute is found whose duty day hasn't expired. Since Southwest uses only 737s they don't have the complication of finding crew members qualified on the aircraft, but if their crew scheduling system software is outdated for the size of the operation it can easily become a total goatfuck, which seems to be what happened.

[LonePirate]

11. There's one detail in this problem which I find very odd.

Southwest has numerous planes parked at many airports across the country. Those planes have been sitting there for days now. What happened to the flight crews on board those planes when they arrived at those airports? Did they hop on other flights out of town, thus leaving those planes without any crew members in the area? If so, how did this happen with hundreds of planes across the country? Where did all of those flight crews go?

I saw a tweet that said Southwest has over two dozen planes sitting at the airport in San Diego. How does it not have enough flight crew members to fly four of those planes to/from Chicago, Dallas, Denver and Phoenix during the same day? That is some seriously flawed scheduling and resource tracking. The government should come down hard on the airline with fines in addition to forcing them to repay and make good with consumers for the cancelled flights and related expenditures and hassles.

[Ocelot II]

12. Maybe those planes ran into inoperative equipment or inspection deadlines

and they didn't have mechanics at those locations to make repairs or inspectors to sign off on minimum equipment list items, and couldn't get them there because of the weather. Otherwise I can't think why those airplanes weren't being used.

[LonePirate]

14. I would consider mechanics and inspectors part of the ground crews that never travel.

If those types of employees work in Denver, they live in the area. Apart from sick or vacation days, there should not be any scheduling problems. Maybe Southwest does not operate this way and I am mistaken.

[Ocelot II]

16. You would think so, but if a plane is grounded at an airport

where these employees are not on full-time staff there could be a problem. Mechanics are usually stationed at major hubs, not necessarily at spoke airports, and sometimes they have to be flown in from a hub. But I'm just speculating; I know how the airline I used to work for did things but I don't have any idea what SW does in these situations.

[FakeNoose]

13. The planes can't move until the employees get there

Other posters on this thread have said the same thing.

It started with the bad weather, and Southwester's planes were on the ground and the schedule got messed up. Then the passengers booked their flights on other airlines. Then the pilots and crews were on time-off (weekend or holiday) because they are only allowed to be on duty "x" number of hours per week. Each day the planes didn't fly, the entire thing snowballed because tickets were all sold in advance. The demand was there but Southwest didn't have personnel to fly the planes.

Now they can't get their pilots and crews to the airports where they are needed to fly those planes out. It's a complete mess and their computers aren't programmed to figure out how to fix it. I guess they're using old out-of-date software, I don't know.

[LonePirate]

15. That's my question, where did the flight crews go?

Those planes did not arrive at those airports without any crew members on board. Where did they do? Some of them have bot worked for days due to all of the cancellations. It’s crazy to me how they are not able to maintain a static ration of X number of flight crew members for each plane at an airport. That is not complicated given how flight crews routinely spend overnight/off-time hours in cities where they do not live. This is corporate ineptitude if not malfeasance at a very basic level.

[Ace Rothstein]

17. From what I've read, they're unaccounted for due to antiquated software.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. They're there, but they can't communicate with command central to keep the system moving.

[mercuryblues]

7. I can tell you that the people left stranded

Don't GAF as to why. My kid just rented a car to get home because SW has just canceled her flight for the 3rd time in in 2 days.

[usonian]

8. Hacker News has a giant thread on this, if you can wade through it. Fundamentally: double fail.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34149340

* this memo[1] from the SWA VP thats circulating dated December 21st calling a staffing emergency saying all hell is about to break loose. I'm pretty sure that guy didn't know of the software crash before it happened

[1] https://mobile.twitter.com/ruthschmidt/status/16074609858619...


That memo is specifically about ground operations at DEN, and specifically because of the arctic weather conditions and a high number of sick calls and ramp agents that outright quit. You can earn more flipping burgers in Denver than you can as a SWA gate agent with five years of experience. Failing to pay staff is also a management failure.

The scheduling software crashed due to the number of pilots and flight attendants that were out of position and the number of changes that were made to the schedule. I would imagine that there was an overflow in some situation -- i.e. "the number of changed schedules should never exceed 65535" that worked every year until this one. But this system was already known to be unstable, another Reddit comment said that "there are settings you don't change for fear the entire thing will crash." Which it has before in 2016. Not expecting that history will repeat itself and doing something about it is also a management failure.

[TheBlackAdder]

21. From my prior life in aeronautics school and training for my commercial license. . .

.

Airport fees and terminal costs are fixed.
Labor is relatively fixed.
Fuel is slightly variable, fluctuating up and down.

The main way an airline saves money is skimping on equipment, delaying non-critical repairs, rigging repairs and performing the minimum to meet inspections.

When I see an airline with labor and operational issues, a red flag pops up because maintenance is now suspect.

.

[bahboo]

9. unless things have changed recently...

I believe SW has a reservation system that doesn't interact with other airlines. For example, last fall I was on a Delta flight that was canceled, and they rebooked me on American. All the other airlines do that. SW cannot...

[BannonsLiver]

19. You are correct.

[MineralMan]

10. Not really. Southwest has been cutting back on staffing and other things

for quite some time. I suspect they were completely unable to respond to this weather in any useful way, frankly.

I stopped flying Southwest a long time ago, due to the poor service it was providing. Many others have done the same.

On the other hand, we were given ample warning about this storm. Sensible people changed their plans and rescheduled their travel. Others, of course, said to themselves, "Maybe it won't be so bad. We might as well try it. What could go wrong?" Now they know.

[BannonsLiver]

18. Southwest's problems are a reflection of their expansion of routes and flights

During CoVID while other carriers were cutting back. Even today, Delta, United and American have not returned to their pre-pan schedule. But Southwest expanded during this time, even though its staff was already spread thin. Even when things are working well they can just barely staff up. When a weather event happens? Forget about it. They're cooked.

SO it's partly weather, partly their own greed and ambition.