Very distressing news.

[Not Heidi]

I've just learned that a lifelong close friend, whom I've known since I was 13, he was 10, was arrested two years ago for possession of child pornography.

My first reaction was to mutter "Jesus." Subsequently and to this moment I've been unable to think. The words my sister said ring in my ears, an overlapping cacophony.

He moved to Oregon last April, and I wonder if his arrest was the motivation. No matter; he still has to come back to Orange County CA for trial. At least I hope there's a trial. I want him humiliated.

I really don't know how to process this. Should I block him? Ignore him? Write him an angry letter? Because I'm furious (for the second time in four days).

My friend.

I'm going for a drive, roll down the windows, clear my head.

[mopinko]

1. write him off.

nothing you can say will make a dent in how twisted he is. shunning is appropriate in this sitch.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. I wouldn't do anything until I was done having an emotional reaction.

Only you can decide whether your friendship should weather this knowledge or not. I'm sorry you're struggling with this.

[LakeArenal]

21. This....☝🏼

[pazzyanne]

46. Same. nt

[FakeNoose]

3. If he's your "close friend" why hasn't he told you himself?

Maybe he's not as close as you think.

[Hekate]

8. Who among your close friends do you tell when you are committing a crime?

Because child porn is founded on crimes against children (including infants), and photos/videos of those crimes that are shared worldwide. It is in no sense victimless.

So who would you tell, unless you were sure they shared your….proclivities?

[Shellback Squid]

67. mannersims are a tell but not always, too many were 'fine people and married", are among the worst

[Maru Kitteh]

12. Do discuss your strange sexual kinks with your friends?

I hope not. I'm sure your friends hope not.

Do you tell your friends about the profound, humiliating and painful wrongs you have done? Unlikely.

[RandySF]

4. Part ways.

Do nothing else.

[Tree-Hugger]

5. Ghost him

Block, ignore, do not engage.

[Haggard Celine]

6. Goddamn, that's tough!

I don't know what I would do. I think I would tell them that if anything is an unpardonable sin, it's preying on children. It's going way too far for anything a friend can forgive. Their forgiveness is going to have to come from a greater power, if forgiveness can be obtained.

[LuckyCharms]

7. Dear Not Heidi

When I was young, I was VERY good friends with a young man.

I was close to his family for a period of about 5 years.

We lost touch.

Decades later, I found him online.

He is in prison, for life.

As an adult, he raped a girl under the age of 12. Multiple times. Over 20 counts.

I understand how this plays with your head.

Please take care of yourself. I'd like to gently encourage you to seek counseling if you need to. This is a big deal.

My best wishes to you.

[Hekate]

10. Best answer yet

[jaxexpat]

51. Agree, best answer yet.

[electric_blue68]

60. So sorry that happened to you! Excellent reply.

[Not Heidi]

72. Thank you, Lucky

My upcoming therapy session will be the start.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

9. I'm sorry

[Ocelot II]

11. Yikes. That's a tough one.

Had a similar, though not quite so extreme experience some years ago. I found out that a friend (not an especially close one, fortunately), while on vacation in Thailand, had bought the services of an underage boy prostitute. I was horrified, and after that I wanted nothing to do with him - so I basically ghosted him. It was a real shock and a disappointment since I had quite liked him, but there's no excuse for that kind of behavior. In your case you've known your friend for a long time and had much more of an attachment, so maybe writing a letter explaining how you feel might offer you more closure than just ghosting him.

[walkingman]

13. If he is a close friend I would ask to explain. He is not guilty until convicted. You never know....

[Skittles]

14. agreed

that is what I would do, I would confront them

[Dan]

32. Yes, this I agree with....

Wait until you hear what he has to say and what a trial reveals….. people lie, you just don’t know until all the facts are presented.

[blueinredohio]

47. Agree 100%

Some people get railroaded.

[Kali]

42. yeah

I would want full story. shit can get twisted in the legal system. wouldn't necessarily take his word about anything, but more info is needed.

[Not Heidi]

73. My sister's conversation with him was telling in this regard.

He didn't deny; said only, "I'm uncomfortable talking about this," over and over. That's not the reply of an innocent man.

[femmedem]

15. I think some otherwise good people can have nearly uncontrollable sexual compulsions.

I'm sure that if he was your friend for all these years, he has the same underlying good qualities you've always seen in him, as well as something darkly horrific--something of which he is probably deeply ashamed.

Maybe your friend tried to tell himself that if he didn't have personal contact with the children depicted in the pornography, he wasn't responsible for their victimization.

I fully understand if you never want to have contact with him. IMO, it is neither the right nor the wrong thing to do. I don't think it's a matter of ethics; it's a matter of how and with whom you want to spend your time.

Either way, I feel for you. I even feel for him: I'd be surprised if he isn't suicidal. Of course, most of all I feel for the children.

[Random Boomer]

43. Very well put

You quite eloquently expressed my thoughts on this.

[femmedem]

44. Thank you.

I was afraid that expressing any empathy at all for the OP's longtime friend would get me flamed.

[Random Boomer]

65. Sexual response isn't volitional

For selfish people without a conscience, that's not a problem, of course. But it must be sheer hell for anyone with any self-awareness. Humans aren't very good at voluntarily negating their sexual urges and hiding from the stigma and legal repercussions makes it impossible to seek help. How do we protect children from them under those circumstances? Beats me.

[electric_blue68]

61. Excellent deeply nuanced reply

[Not Heidi]

74. another comment on my sister's conversation

"Maybe your friend tried to tell himself that if he didn't have personal contact with the children depicted in the pornography, he wasn't responsible for their victimization."

J. does not have the slightest clue that his actions have harmed children. If he did, it is clear that he would not care. These are more things we learned from that conversation.

[femmedem]

79. Ouch.

That's entirely different.

I'm so sorry your former friend isn't the man he portrayed himself to be.

[Shrike47]

16. Ghost him. Nothing to be gained by confronting him.

[70sEraVet]

17. He's been arrested but has not gone to trial?

I think I would wait before making any decisions, at least until the justice system has made a determination. People get arrested for crimes they didn't commit every day.
If he's a friend, don't rush to condemn him until you know some facts.

[TurboDem]

33. This is the best reply here.

[calimary]

37. Welcome to DU, TurboDem!

This is a great example of why I'm damn near addicted to this place. Conversations like this, that help us sort through things, and not have to do it alone. ALWAYS useful input. ALWAYS.

[Not Heidi]

75. Agreed n/t

[BunnyMcGee]

54. My Feelings as well

I was thinking this and thought i'd read other responses first. I would add diminished capacity as well.
My older brother passed from FTD (frontal temporal dementia) a few years ago. Shortly before being unable to communicate anymore,
he had accosted an assisted living facility caregiver, who reported the incident, and another incident with resident. This was definitely not his normal behavior.

[electric_blue68]

62. Wow.

[MLAA]

18. Sending you hugs

I cannot imagine the emotions you are going through.

[Not Heidi]

76. Thank you, MMLA. n/t

[pwb]

19. I have broken off friendships over lying?

This is much worse. Friendships end IMO.

[Saoirse9]

20. I had a similar situation some years ago

My best friend's husband was caught by undercover agents chatting up a (so he thought) 13 year old online. A sting operation.

I introduced them and I was in their wedding. They have two girls, grown now.

I have never been so wrong about anyone in my life. My friend had to have the talk with the girls to find out if he had been inappropriate with them. He hadn't thank God.

I feel your pain. But I wouldn't contact him. Won't make you feel any better, IMHO.

[Tetrachloride]

22. Type your rant in a file if you are unable to cool down.

Then you got it more out of your head. Zip the file
and delete the normal typed version.

Then you can block.

The trial will sort it out.

[Lucky Luciano]

23. Dispose of this garbage and wish him the illest of wills.

[mvd]

24. Hugs to you

It is terrible that you are going through this. I wouldn’t contact him, but if he contacts you, you should give him an earful. Never see him again.

Keeping you in my thoughts.

[TNNurse]

25. A new year starts in a few hours.

Put him behind you and move forward.

Or confront him if that is what you need.

[viva la]

26. Same here.... a former boss.

He was always "inappropriate" even by the lax standards of the old days.

Republican hack (campaign manager, small time]. I saw a news report that he'd moved to Florida and got into production of child porn.

Creeped me out.

[Marthe48]

27. I'm sorry for your news

2 years ago I learned that a younger relative was arrested for rape. Then I learned an acquaintance had gone to jail for molesting a child. Not able to process either, even after time has passed. Some things are unacceptable.

Before you decide, talk to your friend. My relative was arrested and charged because of DNA evidence and getting identified. The acquaintance had pled guilty and went to jail. Maybe your friend bought a used computer with the child porn on it. Or something like that.

[sl8]

29. Are you sure that he's guilty? nt

[LymphocyteLover]

30. if he's really a good friend, you could talk to him and get his side of the story

possible he made a dumb mistake and is really embarrassed about it, but depends on how much you trust him and know him

[Maraya1969]

31. I think it is important to wait until the trial ends. What if he is not guilty?

[CloudWatcher]

34. +1

I know it's hard to imagine, but there are people that lie about such things, and police that have been known to plant evidence. Being accused is not the same as being guilty of the crime.

[triron]

35. Guess my answer would be something that was attributed

To Jesus (I'm not Christian): Let he who is without sin cast the first stone '

[Not Heidi]

77. You couldn't have thought of

a non-"Christian" way to put that? 🙄

[Hope22]

36. One of our friends killed himself before his trial.

I would let things play out before and make sure your friend is guilty before speaking your mind. This is such sad news. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this.

[housecat]

38. Arrested isn't the same as convicted. Wait until the trial.

[Jarqui]

48. +1 and

Not a good time to make a decision - when one is upset ..

[housecat]

71. yes "sleep on it" is generally good advice

[myohmy2]

39. my 2 cents...

...if true, I would personally "block and ignore" and then treat our relationship as I would someone passing...

...I couldn't handle any contact, it'd be to corrosive for me...

...

[myohmy2]

68. here's...

...the rub...

...if he was a pedophile when you knew him, then you really didn't know him...

...IMO if true, the only compassion required in this situation is compassion for the victims of child pornography...

...ditch him...

[Not Heidi]

78. Corrosive

That's a good way to describe how this has affected me. It's eaten away at my peace, and I haven't even known for 24 hours.

[yobrault1]

40. I don't believe

people like this are really close to anyone. Their deviant traits precludes it.

Walk away.

[cyclonefence]

41. This is a punch to the gut, but

once you get through your trauma of learning about it, I hope you will at least send a note to your friend saying that you're sorry he's in trouble. No judgment--god knows, he's getting plenty of that, and no one on earth does not condemn him, but he was your friend, and he needs compassion.

We were in this situation when a close friend was sent to prison for child molestation. We mostly felt sad about it--after the surprise and revulsion--and wrote to him expressing our affection for the friend we knew. It was a comfort to him and a comfort to us.

This is the most unpopular opinion in the world, but I stand by it.

[femmedem]

45. +1

I wish more people had your compassion.

[Wednesdays]

50. I agree.

A colleague of mine, who was also a friend of my family, was busted for having child porn on his computer a couple of years ago and was sentenced to a few months in prison. He has been quite contrite about it, and is going through therapy and marriage counseling.

Nothing would be gained by shunning him. We still send him Christmas cards each year, as if nothing happened.

[TygrBright]

49. Do nothing yet. Wait.

One of the wisest aphorisms I ever encountered: "You do not need to take back or apologize for or feel bad about words you never uttered or actions you never took."

Someone upthread noted that while you're having a strong visceral reaction is not the best time to decide (or act, for that matter.)

Give this some distance, see what else you learn over the near term.

Someone else pointed out that not everyone who is arrested is guilty of what they're arrested for.

"Possession of child pornography" may be anywhere on the spectrum from full-on pedophilia to being unaware that other porn downloaded also included something you didn't ask for. You don't yet know all the circumstances.

In the event of full-on pedophilia, you know nothing of how your friend deals with it - it's one of the single most difficult compulsive disorders to experience and treat. The shame and self-loathing that goes with it can twist a person in a whole variety of painful ways. Your friend may be fighting a lonely battle, in a terrible place - or in deep denial, trying to convince themself they did nothing wrong.

No one should ask you to condone, accept, minimize or approve of the sexual exploitation of children, which is a heinous crime, and those whose disorders contribute to that criminal activity are surely responsible for that contribution and need to face consequences.

But what you don't yet know may have a powerful impact on how you deal with this, so give yourself time.

diffidently,
Bright

[electric_blue68]

63. A very deep nuanced answer

[Hekate]

69. Bright, my SIL is plying me with rum & cokes tonight, so bear that in mind...

Last edited Sun Jan 1, 2023, 06:01 AM - Edit history (1)

You have insight :
In the event of full-on pedophilia, you know nothing of how your friend deals with it - it's one of the single most difficult compulsive disorders to experience and treat. The shame and self-loathing that goes with it can twist a person in a whole variety of painful ways. Your friend may be fighting a lonely battle, in a terrible place - or in deep denial, trying to convince themself they did nothing wrong.

I never made a study of it, as I was way, way too close and the pain was too deep. But I will say this: I thought I was the only one, and kept my silence for 20+ years out of respect? fear? I don’t know. A whole snakes-ball of reasons. But when I finally opened my mouth the responses were so strange I still can’t wrap my head around them. One was: “Were you raped?” Wait, what? You weigh the depth of my trauma by your own arbitrary scale? No! But I was 12! Another was — well, eff it, it wasn’t even denial.

Suffice it to say: I was not the only one. There was me at 12 and my daughter at 3 and a little cousin at my wedding at 7 and if the stunned woman who told us about her 7 year old when I was in my late 30s was correct, he molested another cousin in his extended family before he was even 19. So how far back did it go? How far did it spread out? Adding 2+2+2+2+2 together, it looks like if the weird “car accident” he had in his late 40s was looked at another way, he may have had the crap beat out of him and you don’t have to guess why.

Compulsive? Oh, I would say so.

But all under the effing legal radar.

Kee-rist.

[TygrBright]

85. In the 1980s, I worked for a psychologist...

...who had a contract with the state to provide treatment to the criminally insane. He would spend three days a month at the state hospital providing care to people who had committed some of the most revolting crimes (un)imaginable.

The rest of the time, he dealt with clients who had some seriously disabling mental illnesses, many of which were the result of unbearable trauma. In some cases, because they had been victimized by monsters not unlike those at the state hospital.

There is a phenomenon called 'spectator trauma' which refers to people who are traumatized by being in contact with other peoples' trauma - the family member who pulls someone they love from a burning car, the innocent bystander who is spattered with the blood of a shooting victim, the woman who filmed the last moments of George Floyd's life, the counselor who listens intently to the torture victim's experiences and sensations... My boss was aware of this and tried to keep the gritty details out of day-to-day office life.

But now and then I'd be brought up short by something, and one time I remember asking him how he could work with those who'd suffered the most intense victimization trauma, and then provide care to criminals who had inflicted such trauma on others. I will never forget what he told me: "In 99% of the cases, there is absolutely no clinical difference in the pain the client is experiencing."

It is really difficult to remember this nowadays when cruelty seems to have become a spectator sport, applauded and rewarded on social media and relentlessly dissected, featured, and presented in news and entertainment media. In days when the "anti-hero" and their crimes are considered so much more interesting, sympathetic, and believable than an actual hero who has never been an asshole or an exploiter or a grifter. When decency and integrity take a back seat to success and wealth and celebrity.

But I do try to remember. Sometimes, when the insomnia is on me and I am pacing and praying, I find monsters to pray for. There may be many people praying for the people the monsters harmed. But the capacity to be monstrous resides in us all. We might not make different choices than the people who lived down the road from Auschwitz.

Someone has to pray for me, if I ever become a monster.

So, now and then, I pray for the monsters.

somberly,
Bright

[Hekate]

86. Oh Bright...

You bring tears to my eyes.
Be well, always.

[TygrBright]

87. And you, Hekate. You are a bright light here for many, including me. n/t

[Mother Of Four]

52. It's horrifying to hear this about someone who was or is in your life.

A former boyfriend from high school. We parted on good terms. He and I would message and catch up a couple of times a year, but then he disappeared from social media. I googled him and found news articles about what he'd done. Thank everything good that he never came in contact with either my family or myself in person.

He had done it to children he knew personally and just had a baby a couple of years prior. He was convicted. I had known him for over 35 years.

It's sickening, it's sad, it's horrifying. It makes you question everything. I don't know about you but I asked myself many times "What was I blind to? WHY didn't I SEE? Why didn't I KNOW...?" The rage, the disgust, the hatred. The unreasoning feeling, completely illogical, that I could have done something- anything, to prevent it.

The reality being I was only seeing what he wanted me to see since it was all online. The reality makes you feel helpless.

Yes, there is innocent until proven guilty. In most other things I would stand by that. However, I subscribe to the belief that distance or absence is best until proven innocent in cases such as these. I will never apologize for standing by the child until proven otherwise.

Writing them may seem like a good idea, but I feel it would be poisoning yourself. They are already in your head, and it's already hurting your heart. In my case, I still sometimes feel that bile taste in the back of my throat when a thought however fleeting pops up. I feel tainted by even knowing him, imho this person does not deserve another second of your effort or attention.

If it comes out that they are innocent, choose what to do then. If they are a genuinely good person, they should understand the reasoning that protecting a child comes first. For now, stand with the child. JM2C

[PurgedVoter]

53. A Friend of mine and a man that I respected was grooming.

I cannot tell you how much a shock it was. He was a deep thinker, a poet and a handsome and mannered fellow that I suspect could have had his choice of women. Sadly he chose a high school student and that was the undoing of so much brilliance.

To this day, I wish him well but I wish girls to be well away from him.

[Upthevibe]

55. Not Heidi.........

I would for sure wait until his trial and a verdict it reached.

I'd lay low for now and see how everything plays out.

...........Lots of light & good vibes to you for some peace 💥💥💥

[IcyPeas]

56. It's difficult to get your head around something like this when it happens

I worked with a young guy for years who was found guilty of date rape.

Even thinking about it now, years later, I still cant get my head around it.

I knew him as kind, soft spoken even kinda shy, a very disciplined boxer, kept a strict diet. He would often quiz me about being a vegetarian. I would've described him as sweet...

The idea of him being a rapist just didn't fit.

[Initech]

57. I found out someone I have known for years was involved in the Insurrection.

As in he actually went to Washington DC that day and was at the rally. Some other friends of mine and I still speculate whether or not he entered the Capitol. I'm guessing most likely yes.

I also recently found out that another close friend is a MAGA conspiracy theorist, and it's made me think way less since then.

[shrike3]

82. A relative of my husband's was also at the rally.

We weren't able to determine whether she went in the Capitol. Husband says if he ever finds out she did, he'd turn her in. Hopefully, she was smart enough not to.

[Initech]

83. Well according to the NY Times...

They gathered cell phone tracking data and analyzed it from the time the rally ended to the time they entered the Capitol. Literally no one was at the rally site after it ended. I don't know if they went into the Capitol, but they definitely didn't hang around the rally site.

[shrike3]

88. I've always assumed she went in the Capitol.

She went silent on social media on Jan. 6 and a few days afterward. She posted pictures of her room in Washington, her excitement at the rally. Then, nothing.

But, unless the husband wants to pursue it further (she's not in any of the FBI posted pictures we've seen), I'll stand down.

[Oneironaut]

58. I'm sorry 🫂

I think whatever you do is valid.

[JI7]

59. Let the legal system deal with it and see what happens ?

[electric_blue68]

64. I'm so sorry that this has happened to you! I think wait and see till trial is over...

Feeling shock, and revulsion is totally natural.

Posters have mentioned possible extenuating circumstances. And it may turn out it is totally true.

I'll tell you a story about a very famous person who was caught with child pornography on his computer. He was busted in his ?'50s?

🚨#WARNING#🚨 if you don't want to know
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
First - something happened to him as a child, tween? If I remember correctly he hasn't ever been able to remember it either at all or maaaaybe be the vaguest memories . He said it was for research. Perhaps he thought it could finally jog his memory.


Anyway - if you've ever heard of the Rock Opera "Tommy". by The Who...
.. there's a song called "Uncle Ernie" about child molestation. The whole thing except for a few covers was written by Peter Townshend.
He suffered the abuse he can't remember.

The Brit police cleared him. Roger Daltrey, and us fans stood by him.
.
.
Oh, wow I just remembered a waaaay back close friend of mine was molested! I don't know if he told anybody about it back then. But he wrote about it in his Autobiography like ?50+ yes later!
I didn't read that chapter. Just couldn't!
The other worst part was that that man was at a party (as a young teen) for him that I was at. (ugh!!!)
.
So I'm thinking wait and see, and lay low in the meantime.
😔 Deepest best wishes for navigating this out.

[Shellback Squid]

66. any inkling he was a pedo back when you knew him?

[Hekate]

70. Personally, I doubt it

[shrike3]

81. I've had five -- so far -- male acquaintances turn out to be predators.

Each time I was shocked. I'm not surprised the OP was surprised.

[Not Heidi]

84. J. wasn't a "back when I knew him" friend.

He was a lifelong friend. Known him since childhood and was never out of touch with him for 46 years.

To answer your question, no. There was always something odd about him, but never an inkling of what it was.

[shrike3]

80. I've had male acquaintances turn out to be predators. Never friends.

It's shocking when it happens. You wonder about yourself. Why didn't I know who they were? People are good at hiding things, that's why.

My sympathies. It's quite a shock. OTOH, You've gotten good advice elsewhere in the thread. He's a lifelong friend (different than my situation) and you might want to give him the benefit of the doubt.