My son had a grinder wheel hit his index finger joint. Two stitches at hospital, over $18K? NSFW

[TheBlackAdder]

Last edited Sun Jan 15, 2023, 12:13 AM - Edit history (2)

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He's 25. If he didn't have Obamacare extension to my medical, he would have been fucked! (And this is one of the better health plans offered to corporations.)

2 Hours total wait and service time, 2 stitches.

Hospital
Amount Billed $16,677.00
Plan Discount $14,471.00
Plan Paid $1,583.10
Your Total Amount Owed $622.90

Doctor #1
Amount Billed $1,697.00
Plan Discount $1,578.89
Your Total Amount Owed $118.11

Doctor #2
Amount Billed $44.00
Plan Discount $38.64
Your Total Amount Owed $5.36

We're on the hook for $745. He's doing OK and removed the stitches today, by himself.

These were the EOBs that hit my FSA.



Let's try this again. Adding image. A special grinding wheel for the trimming of horse and miniature donkey hooves. Of course no gloves were used. No matter how much you try to teach safety to your kids some don't listen until they learn by The School of Hard Knocks. It looks worse than it was, but still a little chunker went missing.



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[a kennedy]

1. WTAF???

[applegrove]

2. That's cray cray!!!

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Helluva discount.

[OAITW r.2.0]

4. 37 years ago, I split my middle finger breaking a table saw blade.

Can't remember what it cost me me, but it was really nothing to complain about. Times have changed,

[happybird]

5. Whoa!

That is insane

[malaise]

6. That is the correct word

It is insane - it is a rip-off

[rubbersole]

21. A legal ripoff.

Who do they think they are, the pharmaceutical industry?

[Karma13612]

7. Did he go thru the ER?

Curious if they considered this a trauma team scenario. I wonder what the itemized ED charges were. I used to do medical coding for the ER. Not the billing, but I had to verify that all the charges were correct. That what was charged matched what they documented as having done.

Glad the “after insurance” was so low. Lucky indeed.

[TheBlackAdder]

8. I believe he went into OP emergency. I'll ask him later. It was a Non-Trauma Hospital.

[area51]

9. The US desperately needs to convert to

universal healthcare.

I'm so glad your son is going to be all right.

[Scottie Mom]

10. Amen on that!

Biggest reason for a 7 BK? Medical bills.

[phoenix75]

14. I agree 100%

The US is the only industrialized country in the world without universal health care. It is a shame and a disgrace. IMO health care is a basic human right, not just a privilege for those who can afford it. Just saying .....

[cstanleytech]

29. Try convincing the morons who dont want "big government" as well as other bullshit.

That and the other reason we probably wont see it any time soon is also the number of lawyers that would oppose it.
Some because they make their money by going after people for medical debt and others because they thrive on the money they win in injury lawsuits.
After all if we had universal healthcare it would nullify alot when it comes to lawsuits involving personal injury so that is money that those lawyers want both those lawyers who file the lawsuits and those lawyers that defend the accused.

[calimary]

41. No Freakin' Kidding!!!

[lostnfound]

59. Stock market will prohibit this

$600 billion in market cap for a couple of companies is counting on future price gouging of the sick, injured, and afraid*.

*rightly afraid of high medical bills therefore paying exhirbitamt insurance costs

[NutmegYankee]

11. I had two abdominal surgeries this year, over $100,000 before insurance.

One surgery included a night in the hospital, the other was same day discharge. About $3000 after insurance.

[MuseRider]

12. 2 years ago I tore open

a knuckle on a piece of metal on a shed. It was a 3 corner tear, the skin was hanging off.

I went in to a local walk in clinic, during the pandemic so it was a long wait, and had I think 4 stitches. It cost nothing like that, not even close. Best suture experience I had ever had too AND while doing their little exam they found a bad heart arrythmia that needed fixing with just a minor charge for the EKG and no charge for the extra consult.

As a former ER and ICU nurse I do not remember patients worrying about their charges. They came in and we fixed them up the best we could. I find medical care these days to be appalling. Not only is it often haphazard but you pay a kings ransom (as they used to say) for much less than you used to get often times without having an MD involved except after you are gone and they read it over so they become part of the expense. Sad, it is inhumane care when it breaks you just for having the nerve to need help.

I find this post disgusting. I could and would suture you up for free but that is not allowed.

[Blues Heron]

13. Its a royal scam

[debm55]

15. When my son went to the ER for uncontrolled vomiting, we were billed the whole amount. Each doctor

he saw, billed us. My son is disabled. BCBS told us that we did not have prier authorization. We got it lowered but it still cost us 4,000 out of pocket. He is now on Medicade and BCBS--which is $350 a month for him. BCBS is shit to work with.

[cstanleytech]

31. Are Humana or United Heathcare an option? I am on a Humana Medicare Advantage plan myself and

their benefits are good as well as their supplemental coverage especially the vision coverage.
I checked out United as well and while their dental coverage is superior (they cover implants) and overall medicare network is a tad better (in my area) their vision coverage was not as good.

[debm55]

33. cstanleytech. Around Pittsburgh, there are two major health systems/ hospital groups. UPMC only

takes UPMC health insurance. The other hospital chain takes only BCBS. At one time,
UPMC would take any. Allegheny Health Network only takes BCBS. We have Concordia for vision. UPMC played monopoly and bought up the independent hospitals. For instance, I had a concussion at my job. I had to drive 10 miles home, with a concussion., because UPMC=Mckeeeport would not see me because of me having BCBS. PS. It was 2miles from my school. They would not drive me or call an ambulance for me. I'm pretty sure they are set taking their own insurance. I don't know what people do without those two major insurance companies. Personally, those are the two people have in the Pittsburgh area-never heard of any other.

[cstanleytech]

47. Wow, that really sucks.

[Ms. Toad]

44. You generally don't need prior authorization to go to the emergency room. n/t

[debm55]

48. That was on my bill. We didn't understand that. Who the calls the Primary Care Doctor at 11 at night

and my son didn't authorize the tests. Getting though to BlueCross/BlueShield is a pain. Here in Pittsburgh, they won't let you see a doctor if your insurance is for the competiition. In the next county, they have the Humana Health Care System. We don't. When I had my concussion, I drove the nearest hospital, about 2 miles away. They would not accept me, because of the lack of UPMC card. They would not take my BCBS. So I drove 10 miles home with a concussion.

[Ms. Toad]

51. Limited networks apply for care -

depending on the state, sometimes even for emergency care.

But under the ACA they can't deny you emergency care, and can't require pre-authorization for emergency services.

The hospital 2 miles away was obligated to at least stabilize you with your concussion. (Not sure what PA's laws are - you might have ended up with some out-of-network costs, but they are obligated to treat you without requiring pre-authorization.)

[debm55]

55. Ms Toad, I should have pressed the issue. Six years ago, I didn't know

about the ACA. Paying a cost would have been a heck of alot easier then driving home

[Ms. Toad]

61. You shouldn't have been put in a position where you had to.

I sould not be alive today had I not, 4 decades ago, learned that doctors/medical systems often give an answer off the top of their head -often not correct - and then get resentful when you question them.

I was hospitalized for a month with a, then, rare condition. The residents/interns were mismanaging my care to the point I deemed dangerous and I refused care. (I turned out to be absolutely correct.) My primary care doc scolded/lectured me about being mean to the "baby" docs - I responded that I was more worried about staying alive than about hurting the feelings of the doctors. Fortunately, in that same hospitalization, the specialists were among the best I have ever encountered. They admitted to me early on that they had no good solutions for me. They brought me all of the articles that had been published on my condition (about a half-dozen) and invited me to brainstorm with them. We had lots of good conversations - and I came up with a plan of action that was suggested by our brainstorming. They agreed it was as good as anything they could come up with - and it was successful. (Four decades later, I am one of the few individuals who had that condition in that era with full use of the impacted arm.)

While it is unlikely the interns would have succeeded in killing me, learning to trust my gut and advocate for myself with the support of some of the best doctors in the city doctors who welcomed, rather than discouraging it, has certainly saved my life. I have repeatedly had doctors tell me nothing was wrong when I (or my daughter) presented with life-threatening conditions. Had I not learned to press the issue, I'd be dead.

Getting competent medical care should not require a graduate degree in medicine or advocacy.

[debm55]

62. Thank you for the advice. The case I stated was for my concussion, the other for my son. My son had

the unauthorized ER exam and it was in our Network. But each doctor he saw charged us and the medical tests done were unauthorized according to BCBS. It was a mess.
Thank you for your advice. I hope you are better now.

[Ms. Toad]

63. I work out truces with most everything that happens to me.

I'm still in the negotiating stage with the 4th of my post-COVID crud conditions.

The condition I was hospitalized a month for doesn't cause me any trouble. I also developed it on the opposite side 2 decades later. (it's now a fad disease and they have more reliable solutions. It also causes me no trouble.

I'm currently NED (no evidence of disease) for my sarcoma (aggressive cancer). That's the last big battle I had with a doctor who refused to biopsy a lesion on my arm because it was nothing (according to him). Had I paid any attention to him, the sarcoma which developed on that site might well have killed me.

[debm55]

64. My doctor told me it was an age spot. It was located on the side of my nose. One day, as I was

teaching, the students said your nose is bleeding. Naturally, I touched the bottom of my nose. I never had a bloody nose before and it concerned me. Guess what, it was coming from the "age spot". I went to the dermatologist. He said it was cancer. He removed 6 lesions. When I got the test back, I found out it was Basal Cell. I quit the Primary Care Doctor and found another one. Good luck with your sarcoma. Do you do the check ups every 2 years? They gave me heck, for not coming back on time.

[Ms. Toad]

65. Sarcoma is much more aggressive -

I'm two years out, and the risk is just now low enough that I can go 6 months between scans. (Until the two year mark it is a physical exam and a CT scan of the lungs to check for metastasis every 3 months.) The kidney-bean-sized tumor required a 5" diameter excision to make sure there weren't any locally migrating cancer cells. The normal survival rate is somewhere around 50% at 5 years. Mine was caught very early, so I should have much better odds. But if the jerk of a doctor I initially saw had had his way, I would not have known to watch it carefully enough to catch it as early as I did. (The standard for evaluating a bump to determine if it is a sarcoma is that it is golf-ball sized.)

The initial lesion, 6 years earlier, was pre-cancerous lesion masquerading as a dermatofibroma (completely harmless). It was a nightmare getting the doctor (a dermatologist) to pay attention to me. It had all the ABCDEs of cancer. He point blank refused to biopsy it. When I insisted (and pointed out that my brother had just been diagnosed with a melanoma, which his doctor had initially refused to biopsy) he agreed to biopsy it. But instead of doing a simple punch biopsy (as is the norm at this institution) he required me to make an appointment on another day for the biopsy. Pretty sure he thought having to come back would discourage me and I'd give up. After the pathology report came back with some odd characteristics, he point blank refused to ask the pathologist for more clarification. I had to make an appointment with the pathologist to get my questions answered. Turns out it had 3 of the 4 characteristics which indicate it should be treated as pre-cancerous rather than benign. So I watched it carefully. It regrew and was excised (by my regular dermatologist) at least 3 more times before the sarcoma showed up.

[debm55]

66. Ms Toad, feel very sorry that happened to you. You seem to know more about your condition then the

doctors. Hope all goes well for you. Sometimes I think that they are on a 15 minutes schedule. You can tell when the 15 minutes is getting close and they brush you off.

[Ms. Toad]

67. I know more than some of them.

My main doctor is one of the very best. He knows much more than I do, and he doesn't work on a 15 minutes schedule. I trust him implicitly to be honest with me - good or bad. He's one of 4 I've encountered in my life.

The jerk of a dermatologist knew the odds. Most people fall within the odds, so he can afford to be sloppy and still be ok 999/1000 times. Since my daughter and I specialize in medical unicorns, I can't count on not being that 1/1000 working. Doctors like him have little patience for patients like me.

[BigmanPigman]

16. I live in San Diego and I remember a Swedish student

who visited the US and had an injury and had to go to the US hospital system and he was billed over $200,000 for a snake bite. He was smart and got extra overseas health insurance for his trip to the US. No one in Sweden could believe his medical bill.

Damn, even with the ACA I had to pay $3,000 for 3 days in the hospital in 2016. The original bill was for over $35,000! My doctor didn't have the time to get to review my case so I has to spend an additional day, $1,000, just because he was delayed! When I make less than $30,000 a year and live alone in CA that is A LOT of fucking money for me!!!! Fuck, if I had the choice I would rather invest my $1,000 towards a 1st class plane trip to France and back. I have spent more on my health care in my lifetime than if I had sent my child to an Ivy League campus for 4 years alone. We are being held hostage by our healthcare system. If you are slightly sick, forget about having any savings in your lifetime.

[LiberalFighter]

17. That is highway robbery

[housecat]

20. yes it is

[mahina]

18. Yikes. Hope he can heal up completely and soon.

The money end is distressing too.

[housecat]

19. one and a half mile ambulance ride $700

[BWdem4life]

22. Was it worse than this?

I didn't go to the ER for several hours, till they finally made me.. No stitches though, they just put some kind of mesh thing on it.

I'm low income and I get to be on Medicaid in WA.

[TheBlackAdder]

28. I uploaded the image. I had the tip of my left index cut off below the nail and reattached.

.

As a kid I was playing on a metal handtruck, riding it down the driveway into the back of a truck with a hydraulic lift bed on the back. The handle and bevel of the bed were perfectly aligned. I tried to pull my hands up and missed clearing the one finger by milliseconds. This was when I was in 6th grade.

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[GenThePerservering]

54. I did that cutting up potatoes for potato salad

It was my thumb. Digit tip reattachment apparently do not always do well with stitches - so mine was steri-stripped back on with lots of tiny steri-strips.

I was sitting on the gurney watching the doc doing the fiddling, as I found it all very interesting, how they determined exactly how to reattach and the dexterity he showed. He finally said that it would make him feel better if I just lay down lol.

Hopefully yours healed up as well as mine did - I just had some numbness for a few months.

ETA: It was NO horrible $18k, either - I'd contest the bill, frankly. That's utterly ridiculous!

[Kali]

23. it's all bullshit

the amount you are on the hook for is all it costs/should cost. the first amounts are pure fantasy, the rest is insurance bullshit, basically paying to deal with them and money laundering/profiteering.

[GoodRaisin]

24. It's hard to believe that people who vote for Republicans

like this.

[tonekat]

25. There is an "agreement"

Hospitals will state a price, then apply the discount for the insurance company they accept, bringing the sticker price down to a somewhat realistic amount, then the insurance covers whatever they agreed to, then the balance goes to the consumer.

Someone with no insurance negotiates with the hospital, and that usually results in a payment plan for yet another sticker price just for those circumstances.

[IcyPeas]

26. We need a revolution. This is a total scam.

What the fuck.

I'd be curious to see the actual cost breakdown and how the hell it adds up to that total.

[mathematic]

27. These are like JC Penny prices, they're not real. Plan discount, 90% off sale.

Actual bills are $2000 from the hospital, $118.11 from doctor #1 and $5.36 from doctor #2.

I don't know who those phony prices are meant for. Insurance companies don't pay them and people without insurance can't pay them. I know the government doesn't pay them.

[LudwigPastorius]

30. My mom had a fall early last year.

She had a small bleed on the brain. Took an ambulance to the hospital ER and stayed in the hospital for 3 days.

The total billed to Medicare was close to $300,000.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

50. I Remember when Paul Ryan and republicans tried to peddle a $10,000 dollar voucher

… in lieu of Medicare. Yeah sure, 75-80 year olds can buy private insurance for $10 grand per year.

What insurance company on earth would sell that policy?

[Solly Mack]

32. Ouch! Looks painful.

I'm grateful for my insurance.

[alotus51]

34. Doctor friend

At a point in my uninsured life I had a friend who was an ER doc. I cut my hand and he said I'll bring home a suture kit and meet you later. So I went to his house and he cleaned up the wound and sutured it up there on his dining room table. A couple of days later I removed the stitches my self. Done and dusted and cost nothing other than buying him lunch some days later.
I've had a few doc friends over the years and received quite a bit of free medical help. Some times I would trade some work with them. I built a shelf unit for my dentist's office in exchange for his services. I have Medicare now.

[phoenix75]

36. Nice post alotus51

Having grown up in a rural environment in the 1950s, I can remember when the town doc was just a regular guy and the community was like one big family. But times have changed.....
Thank you for your post and the memories it has recalled.
Best wishes my friend

[moniss]

43. In 1975

my doctor was a guy who had his office in his house and his nurse/receptionist was his wife. He had been one of the MASH doctors in Korea. We had a baby on the way but had no insurance. He told me that he couldn't do anything about how much the hospital would charge but as far as his services he told me he would do all of the prenatal, delivery and first two years of postnatal including all shots etc. for $350.00 and to just pay him some money whenever we could. I had a dentist like that too. He had been a Navy dentist. Captain rank. Same small town.

[phoenix75]

46. Thank you for sharing

and best wishes to you and yours.

[jmbar2]

35. That is really scary

I went back to work in December to pay climbing rent and will lose a subsidy that I received that pays my Medicare premiums and deductibles.

Looks with having to pay the basic Medicare premiums with a Medigap policy will suck about $300+/month from my new paycheck. And I'll still be on the hook for copays and deductibles.

Stories like this scare the bejeezus out of me. Any suggestions are welcome.

[ShazzieB]

37. There should be a NSFW warning for that gory photo.

Or a trigger warning or, I don't know, something. Maybe provide a link so people can click if they WANT to see the pic instead of posting it on the board.

There was a time when having something like that pop up with no warning would have given me a panic attack. That doesn't happen anymore, thank goodness, but this still gave me a jolt. UGH.

[moniss]

38. Early 2000's

I was in the hospital for just under 2 days for observation. Basic blood tests run etc. No insurance. The bill was nearly $21,000.00. Wiped me out. But here's the real kicker. I then started taking a common blood pressure med. Lowest dose. One per day. I went to Walgreens. They hit me up for over $125.00 for a one month supply. I was freaked but went along with taking it. So the next month I'm back at the same Walgreens but a different person is refilling my prescription. They asked me if I had any questions. I complained about the high cost. They said "Oh, don't you have the Walgreens saving card?" I said I'd never heard of it and they told me that if I had the card then my prescription was only $6.25. I asked how much the card cost and they gave me a puzzled look and said "It's free you just show it and you get rewards points too." There was no signage anywhere telling a customer any of this about huge discounts on meds. So if someone didn't tell you about it you would just go on being ripped off in a huge way. The American health care system is really anymore just set up to rip you off. It is very common, for example, for terminal cancer patients who are only a few days away from death to still be getting wheeled into chemo for expensive treatments. Hospitals, clinics, pharmacies and doctors maximizing profits. Submit the bill to the insurance or Medicare/Medicaid and keep the money flowing.

A similar type rip-off happens to folks who own motor-homes and have breakdowns/repair needs while traveling. The diesel engines that are used and associated brake systems etc. are virtually the same as in semi trucks. So you end up at a dealer. Most of the time if you don't have an account with that specific dealer they will charge you full retail for parts. It is not unusual to see a "cash non-account" customer being charged anything from double to quadruple for the same part compared to a customer with an account. They don't tell you ahead of time that having an account is usually just a matter of filling out a form with name,address and phone number. As long as you are paying in full at the time of service there is no credit consideration that has to be done. So when you are traveling if the dealer, even for your car/pickup/SUV etc., says "do you have an account with us?" you need to take the few minutes necessary to fill out the paperwork. It could save you hundreds or even thousands. Sometimes that account versus non-account status can also bring a discount on the labor rate. I pay about half price for my pickup parts since long ago I took the 5 minutes for them to do the data input to open an account with my local dealer. My dealer for semi parts shows me the full retail price and then my price on my invoices. My cost is usually around 2/3 off and sometimes more depending on the part.

[Sogo]

39. Was the stitching done in an operating room?

I'm in a small town in the MidWest, and when I broke my wrist in 2006, the local hospital would have charged $7000 for the doctor to use the OR to set my wrist, plus his hourly fee. I was in a splint for three more days, waiting to catch the regional transport van for the University Hospital an hour drive away in order to avoid that expense. The problem was that I was between jobs and, therefore, without insurance, so all costs would have been out-of-pocket. At the University Hospital, I was able to get on a state funded medicaid-type plan, and didn't have to pay anything....Whew!

[TheBlackAdder]

42. That reminds me of my then 5yo daughter's chin stitches and how we got gouged for it.

Last edited Sun Jan 15, 2023, 01:17 AM - Edit history (1)

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Went to the ER as she lacerated her chin when she was five.

The hospital placed us in a staging room that seats 6 people, where we waited for 45 minutes. $1000
Then, they moved us to a semi-private area of the ER where about 8 others were. $3500
We asked for a plastic surgeon, who was one of the best in the area. The ER doc took offense to it, saying he could do it, but we were not risking a daughter's face to an unknown variable. $2500
My daughter cried when she was being sutured, so they moved her to a private room. $6000

We got hit for $4500 because of all of the room moves, as they were not covered fully.


The plastic surgeon told us to NEVER go to the ER, but to go directly to his office. This way, we would just pay patient charges, and it would be less disruptive to his practice, as this was in the middle of the day. If we went to him directly, it would have been under $750.

.

[Raine]

40. Disgraceful, what a scam!

Somebody is sure making off of this, no way should it cost this much!

[cilla4progress]

45. Happy at the $ outcome anyway -

will it heal well?

I trim my own horses, too. I'm reluctant to use power tools! 😳

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

49. ridiculous but hospital is trying to make $$ off of whoever they can

[Meowmee]

52. It's all a huge scam

Sorry that happened. You could try disputing it with the insurance company. This is why you should avoid hospitals and emergency rooms like the plague if you can… obviously for some things you can’t.

Everything is pretty much a scam now co-pays going up to try and discourage people from even going to a doctor and getting treatment. I used to get suspicious things on my skin removed for a regular co-pay at my doctor then he moved into a big conglomeration.

I went there and they tried to charge me $600 for it. It was just crazy I told him there’s no way I’m paying you $600 and they just excepted whatever I pay for the co-pay which is now $50.

They are just trying to get as much money out of us as they can now. And there are no regulations stopping it.

[Bayard]

53. Is your son a farrier?

I'm trying to figure out why he would be using a grinding wheel to trim hooves, instead of regular nippers and a rasp. I've only heard of grinders used for horse shoes.

Looks nasty.

[TheBlackAdder]

57. He has the knife, nippers and rasp too. BTF out of me what he was trying to do.

.

He should have known better. Apparently, it was working until he lost focus. Not a farrier by profession, just the skills one learns when having scores of animals.

Former matrimonial farm. The ex acquired a 32 acre farm post divorce with next husband.

I'm out of the farm lifestyle now.

.

[Emile]

56. Best healthcare money can buy!

[friend of a friend]

58. I don't know if we will ever have universal healthcare,

but there is something that needs to be done now, and that is changing the way uninsured people are billed. We need a law that allows the medical community to charge people without insurance or bad insurance to bill them at the Medicare allowable rate.

[toesonthenose]

60. Ouch. I hope he heals up quickly and feels better soon.

Sorry for the high price financially, it is tough. I have some medical bills that are crazy and due to super high deductibles, just setup a payment plans and will just need to budget it in to get them paid off.