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PCIntern

(25,544 posts)
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 11:03 AM Jan 2023

Another PCIntern true story!!

Please allow me to preface this by saying that I am not so creative that I could possibly make this stuff up. The only reason I have this many stories is that I have dealt with thousands and thousands of people over the years on a very intimate basis and stuff just happens.

In the mid-1980s I was practicing in my original office which was down the hall from another dentist who had purchased a practice from an older gentleman who had treated many of the theater crowd, including performers, directors, support staff and even some of the wealthy and connected producers here in Philadelphia as well as a number of politicians, both city and state. Philadelphia used to be a great center for theater, wherein major shows were tried out and refined before they opened on Broadway. The idiotic Philadelphia media at the time however nixed so many shows by giving them bad reviews that went on to become hits that they stopped doing the preliminaries here and focused more on New Haven, Connecticut before they quit the practice nearly entirely.

The men’s room on our floor was 1920s vintage, and it doubled as access to the electrical system for the floor. One morning, I walked into the bathroom for the usual reason and standing in front of me, trying the locked door knob repeatedly, was former Pennsylvania governor, Milton Shapp. Governor Shapp had been the CEO of a company called Jerrold Electronics which I believe still holds patents for cable boxes used throughout the world. He was the first Jewish governor elected in the Commonwealth and was a somewhat progressive Democrat. Anyway, so I’m standing there and governor Shapp is trying to leave the bathroom via this locked door. I immediately said, “Governor, would you like me to take you back to the dental office?” Now I knew that’s where he had come from because we were the only two practitioners on the floor of any type. So he very gently and quietly said, “If you would be so kind.“

I walked him down to the other office and opened the door, and sitting in the waiting room was a woman dressed in a nurse’s outfit sitting next to a walker. I said to her “I presume the Governor belongs to you. And she looked up from her magazine and said, “Oh, yes. Thank you.“

I rolled my eyes figuratively to myself and walked back to my office, thinking that so many Pennsylvania politicians had surrendered to one form of dementia or another, including former Republican Senator Hugh Scott, who was the minority leader in the Senate for many years, and very powerful in Pennsylvania, and was one of the three senators who informed President Nixon, that he would have to resign. I was very saddened by this turn of events, because I had no idea that this had happened to him since he had been out of the news for years.

But, as usual with my stories , this preamble to the story has nothing to do with the real narrative. This dentist who worked down the hall was born in one of the eastern bloc countries, and had immigrated to the United States as a young adult, telling some dentists whom he meant on the beach, (I believe at the Jersey shore), that he had been a member of the Czechoslovakian Olympic water polo team and had fled to the United States for political asylum. These dentists happened to be at the time extremely politically powerful and paved the way for his immigration and citizenship in the minimum amount of time required.

Now, this fellow was extremely athletic and good looking, and I’m not going to get into the other aspects of his activities, because quite frankly in this day and age, that’s nobody’s business. What I discovered working down the hall from him however was that he was an utter and complete sociopathic liar. He lied about almost everything, and the upshot to his career was that he was substituting for a dentist out on the main line, convinced a woman that she needed a dental reconstruction and that she should pay him $10,000 in cash which he would be happy to have collected at her home, did so, and then vanished into thin air. Eventually, there was a federal warrant out for his arrest, and he fled the country to Europe. I understand he is still there doing “business“.

And then, almost unbelievably it turned out that he had never ever been on any water polo team of any type, let alone an Olympic team, and he had lied about absolutely everything concerning his background. Everything. He was also one of those seducers who would literally charm the pants off women and some men, including but not limited to his own dental staff and a number of his patients. (And yes, I’m well aware of those implications)

He would tell stories and lie the way a certain congressman from New York has done so. Everything was elaborate and intriguing but believable enough that it could be true and yet somehow stretch the bounds of reality. People sensed this and knew this, but he functioned in his capacity for over 30 years, doing this repeatedly, with no retribution, until he finally crossed the line with the wrong person. it is unbelievable what the society will tolerate and just shrug its shoulders. It is, therefore no surprise to me that this asshole from New York, this narcissistic sociopathic malignantly lying son of a bitch is just propped up, and we have to basically Al Capone him by going only after the money fraud, as opposed to all the other frauds, which he has perpetrated and are fundamentally antithetical to a society founded upon reason.

They’re everywhere….you can’t get away. Between the prevaricating sociopaths and the cops who will beat you to death for absolutely no reason, and everything else that’s FUBAR’d, we are sinking fast into oblivion . Unfortunately, I believe that we, as a society, have crossed the Rubicon.

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Another PCIntern true story!! (Original Post) PCIntern Jan 2023 OP
Proves the theory that people are more likely to believe a big lie than a small one Walleye Jan 2023 #1
Great story about an appalling personality-type FakeNoose Jan 2023 #2
Kick dalton99a Jan 2023 #3
Thank you for this story. I had a boss for about 11 years that was a sociopathic liar. Ferrets are Cool Jan 2023 #4
Goo story. Well written. JohnnyRingo Jan 2023 #5
Thank you Wild blueberry Jan 2023 #6
Good story! The one thing about Society today, is that the news is constantly chock-full of SWBTATTReg Jan 2023 #7
These fabulists are truly everywhere, and I've had the displeasure of bullwinkle428 Jan 2023 #8
Recommended. H2O Man Jan 2023 #9
Terrific story as usual! PCIntern Jan 2023 #11
I think we've all met these people Warpy Jan 2023 #17
Always enjoy your anecdotes! nt Carlitos Brigante Jan 2023 #10
Dentists always have good stories malaise Jan 2023 #12
Good story, thanks. But the dystopian endings these days? Hortensis Jan 2023 #13
Yes agreed but with PCIntern Jan 2023 #14
Global climate change too! Hortensis Jan 2023 #18
I've met one of those guys, It was a long time ago Warpy Jan 2023 #15
In the late 90's I shared an office with con-artist/pathological liar who was a CPA. Dustlawyer Jan 2023 #16
I once worked with a guy - Kingofalldems Jan 2023 #19
yes agree Meowmee Jan 2023 #20

Walleye

(31,017 posts)
1. Proves the theory that people are more likely to believe a big lie than a small one
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 11:17 AM
Jan 2023

Because they understand small lies, they’ve told them themselves.Tell a big enough lie and people think you couldn’t be lying about something that fantastic. I was reading something about human evolution and how the ability to tell stories helped us survive. We are a species of storytellers. The problem is we gravitate towards the better story even if we know it’s not true. I do love your story, though, and it sounds completely true. Has a little Arlo Guthrie flavor to it

FakeNoose

(32,638 posts)
2. Great story about an appalling personality-type
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 11:29 AM
Jan 2023

These pathological liars (a la George Santos) can only exist when they find others who have a stake in maintaining the liar's ruse. Santos has found his in Kevin McCarthy, who has every reason to pretend he believes the lies. We all know he doesn't, but if he were to admit it, he'd have to do something about it.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,106 posts)
4. Thank you for this story. I had a boss for about 11 years that was a sociopathic liar.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:11 PM
Jan 2023

I hope I am using that word correctly. There was nothing he had not done, he would change the accomplishment based on to whom he was speaking. Because of my love of music and photography, he would be the expert on both these subjects. I can't tell you how many famous bands he "played" with, from Aerosmith to Pink Floyd. Of course, any proof of these events would be packed up somewhere out of immediate reach.
He was also very untruthful about his "wealth". He would often brag about how many investments he had, but NEVER had enough money to pay his power bill.
I am so glad this man is out of my life forever.
"Everything was elaborate and intriguing but believable enough that it could be true and yet somehow stretch the bounds of reality. People sensed this and knew this, but he functioned in his capacity for over 30 years, doing this repeatedly, with no retribution" These two lines describe my former boss to a tee. I am sure many people know a person JUST like this one. Unfortunately, they ARE everywhere.

SWBTATTReg

(22,114 posts)
7. Good story! The one thing about Society today, is that the news is constantly chock-full of
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:25 PM
Jan 2023

those who seem to have the 'golden touch', have the good looks, and everything else that goes w/ being successful...we all know and see this constantly on TV, 24x7.

Thing is, most of us, perhaps 95% or thereabouts, realize that this is TV land focusing upon those very few that have made it. The vast majority of the rest of us have 'made it' too, but not as flashy or financially well off as some have. Thus, those that crave more than the 'average' attention for some reason, which I think means that they are extremely insecure, or suffer from some unnatural desire for yet more attention because basically, they don't have the personality or the looks or some other criteria that attracts people to others.

It's kind of pathetic in a way. Most of us realize personalities like this, and after a while, these types of people are a drain to the rest of us to deal with, constantly. Enough already! I think I'm seeing this w/ tRUMP and now w/ santos. When someone is being so pathetic that they alone, can fix or do anything, I run away. tRUMP has already declared multiple bankruptcies and santos has pretty well claimed that he's done it all too. Yeah, right. Go away.


bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
8. These fabulists are truly everywhere, and I've had the displeasure of
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:25 PM
Jan 2023

meeting and having to interact with them (mostly in the workplace) a few times in my life.

The most disheartening aspect of this is seeing how easily large numbers are taken in by people like this. Including the management types, who tend to fancy themselves as the "big brains" of their respective organizations.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
9. Recommended.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:40 PM
Jan 2023

Very good!

I think we are on the line, so to speak, with one foot on each side.

Years ago, at the MHC, a young therapist across the hall from me came into my office with tears in her eyes. One of our long-term clients had just left. She had told the therapist that she had just come from the hospital, where her medical team had found she had cancer. It was too late to prolong, much less save, her life. The client even showed the therapist a large bandage covering her shoulder and chest.

By the following day, by way of previously signed release forms, the therapist learned that the client's story was -- much like everything she ever said -- a lie. In staff, the therapist said, "I knew it!" I laughed and said, "Oh no you didn't! You had tears flowing down your cheeks!"

The moral (or immoral, Isuppose) of the story is even in that setting, with a client that was diagnosed a sociopath, they can still fool people every so often. I'd wager that most everyone who has worked with sociopaths has had a similar experience, if they are honest with themselves.

Within a year of this, I sat in while federal prosecutors interviewed this client for a significant theft. As I recall, the client invested the $60,000 she stole in cocaine, enough to lay downa white line straight to prison. But I'll give her credit: she didn't miss a beat in that interview, and everything she said was an absolute lie. When caught lying, she simply came up with another lie instantly. The only honest thing she said was at the end: "Oh, well, no big deal. There's lots of sex in prison."

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
17. I think we've all met these people
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 03:08 PM
Jan 2023

but if we didn't have something they wanted beyond the thrill of getting somebody to believe a lie, we don't knw we've been conned. In my case, the pathological liar saw I wasn't buying a lot of the story and tried to embellish it even more, which was a big mistake. I had worked in a psych hospital, so I knew these people were out there.

Unless they've got money the liars con them out of, the worst damage they do is make people doubt themselves because these liars prey on the best human traits of compassion, empathy, and altruism to get what they want. Being conned by these people makes their victims hard and cynical, at least in the short term.

Most likely your teary therapist coworker spotted her pathological liar patient sooner rather than later. These people meet really well but they don't wear very well and the liar's appearance at a therapist's office meant life had become unlivable and help was needed.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
13. Good story, thanks. But the dystopian endings these days?
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 02:20 PM
Jan 2023

Imo need some plot work. After all, oblivion means...oblivion and crossing the Rubicon's passing a point of no return.

Problems big enough to scare whole societies provide big kicks in the pants that always cause societal changes and often big advances. Last century the U.S. and Germany chose very different directions, but both ended up with both. I believe where we are now is similar to where we were in the 1930s. Same old human race.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
18. Global climate change too!
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 03:11 PM
Jan 2023

Scary. Quick oblivion might sound preferable to the worst futures some are imagining, but I think the most possible big happening would be a pivot point to a new era, worse or better. The transition could be very hard for those who survive to live through or look much like the lives we've been living, new devices, new work, new leisure, new luxuries, etcetera, depending.

Reminds me that current estimates are that somewhat over 1 billion people of our species have now lived. It's something new that we'll be hitting 8 billion at one time before long. Instead of big disasters obliterating village- and town-sized populations as so common in the past, present and future disasters will sometimes kill far more people. But we're having a lot fewer of them, even with climate change causing a real surge.

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
15. I've met one of those guys, It was a long time ago
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 02:41 PM
Jan 2023

and I must've looked like the perfect target, skinny, wide blue eyes, fresh up from the south. Unfortunately for him, my bullshit detector had been installed some years earlier and was working well, so all he got out of me was some vague and trite sympathy for his tale of woe. He had more success with a roommate, whom I quickly clued in. It was almost a game, finding out which stories he'd tailored to which potential victims and letting them know how full of shit he was. He disappeared not long afterward and disappeared so completely (and we knew he lacked the resources to blow town) that we all figured he was operating under a new name.

Pathological liars have always been out there. It's impossible for them to stop lying without a great deal of early intervention, it's hard wired. The best thing you can do for these people is expose them, force them to keep moving, make their lives unlivable. It's the only way to get them to admit they need help. Mostly they don't and stay moving targets until the laws they break catch up to them.

Santos (or whoever he is) fits the mold perfectly, tailoring his story to the listener. Having those listeners compare the stories must be exquisitely painful to him, but I'm sure McCarthy is reassuring him he's untouchable as a Congressman and that when TFG is reinstalled in 2 years, he'll get a full pardon for everything he's ever done, even defrauding GOP big donors.

At some point, Santos (or whoever he is) will skip out with a large amount of other people's money and set up shop elsewhere. One wonders if he's learned his lesson, that a career in politics isn't a wise one for him. Besides, he's been there, done that. My guess is that his next stop will be as a tech/medical/hedge fund CEO who retired at 30 who lost his mom at 10 on 9/11 (old story that worked well) who developed the Covid vaccine and got the patent stolen, you know the drill.

The worst thing about these people is that they leave everybody around them feeling like fools for buying any part of the stories. That's too bad,most of these people could charm the birdies out of the trees and I've seen first hand how well they sell their stories. I admit I wanted to believe the pathological liar I knew, but my BS detector was pinned and gave me better advice.

Just know they're out there and hold onto your wallet and your virtue when someone very charming tells you an elaborate story.



Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
16. In the late 90's I shared an office with con-artist/pathological liar who was a CPA.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 02:56 PM
Jan 2023

I discovered she had posed as her attorney friend tp represent an 18 wheeler victim. We had her busted in a very crowded open court. In attendance were local reporters and the DA.

I checked and discovered she was not a CPA. Notified the IRS who immediately checked me out. One out of three clients were being audited which there were no random audits being done at that time.

Crazy, greedy, people. She did it for the thrill. She was a compulsive liar, she could not help herself. George Santos seems like that.

Kingofalldems

(38,454 posts)
19. I once worked with a guy -
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 03:21 PM
Jan 2023

Last edited Sat Jan 28, 2023, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)

who on his first day declared he recently played QB for the Maryland football team. He said on one play he scored a TD but the coach kicked him off the team because he was supposed to hand the ball off to the fullback. Since I followed football back then I knew it was a lie but he seemed to believe his own story. BTW he was fired after 3 weeks because he actually brought his wife in to do his work while he rode his new motorcycle.

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