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CousinIT

(9,251 posts)
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 08:34 AM Jan 2023

The biggest story you've never heard about today's federal debt

https://robertreich.substack.com/p/the-biggest-story-youve-never-heard

. . .

A half century ago, American’s wealthy financed the federal government mainly through their tax payments. Tax rates on the wealthy were high: Under Republican President Dwight Eisenhower, they were over 90 percent. Even after all tax deductions, the wealthy typically paid half of their incomes in taxes.

Since then — courtesy of Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, and Donald Trump — the effective tax rate on wealthy Americans has plummeted. Even as they’ve accumulated unprecedented wealth, today’s rich are now paying a lower tax rate than middle-class Americans. (The 400 richest American families paid a tax rate of just 3.4 percent between 2014 and 2018, while the rest of us paid an average tax rate of 13.3 percent.)

. . .

One of the biggest reasons the federal debt has exploded is that tax cuts on wealthier Americans have reduced government revenue.

. . .

Hence the half-century switch: The wealthy used to pay higher taxes to the government. Now the government pays the wealthy interest on their loans to finance a swelling debt that’s been caused largely by lower taxes on the wealthy.

This means that a growing portion of your taxes are going to the wealthy in the form of interest payments, rather than paying for government services everyone needs.

. . .

What should be done? Reduce the debt by raising taxes on the wealthy.


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The biggest story you've never heard about today's federal debt (Original Post) CousinIT Jan 2023 OP
K&R secondwind Jan 2023 #1
Look into a fair wealth tax. multigraincracker Jan 2023 #2
K&R 2naSalit Jan 2023 #3
The wealthy also buy off enough politicians to make sure that doesn't happen IronLionZion Jan 2023 #4
And many politicians themselves are rich. n/t area51 Jan 2023 #13
Tax the rich! Bluethroughu Jan 2023 #5
every single word. stopdiggin Jan 2023 #6
The problem is even bigger than just tax rates The Jungle 1 Jan 2023 #7
This!!! Wuddles440 Jan 2023 #9
Excellent points. I wish the damn media would cover this. All you said plus CousinIT Jan 2023 #29
Many rich don't have an income that can be taxed Kaleva Jan 2023 #8
Exactly What Happened During Eisenhower ProfessorGAC Jan 2023 #16
But the lower actual rate was the result of corps and wealthy businesses ... Whiskeytide Jan 2023 #30
THIS! SouthernDem4ever Feb 2023 #31
Absolutely ProfessorGAC Feb 2023 #34
True moose65 Jan 2023 #27
And it's important to remember the rich were not really taxed Scrivener7 Jan 2023 #10
No it wouldn't moose65 Jan 2023 #25
Which is why the meme is "NO NEW TAXES!!!!" Model35mech Jan 2023 #11
Yup. Starve everything they don't want to the point it's ineffective and incompetent KPN Feb 2023 #32
GQP sure wanted 30% sales tax across broad........... Lovie777 Jan 2023 #12
Sales tax is regressive, thus hurting the poor more than anyone else. When you look at Lonestarblue Jan 2023 #20
That's something else that Democrats should broadcast loudly moose65 Jan 2023 #26
Isn't this the same problem Greece had after the crash of 2008? Farmer-Rick Jan 2023 #14
Politicians know that if they take care of the wealthy they will be rewarded inwiththenew Jan 2023 #15
Ronnie Raygun strikes again! nightwing1240 Jan 2023 #17
Wish our side of the aisle KS Toronado Jan 2023 #22
totally agree! nightwing1240 Jan 2023 #23
It's how CA, 6th largest economy, went from being in the red to having a budget surplus. ancianita Jan 2023 #18
Eisenhower understood it - a high tax rate meant that wealthy Americans invested in the future FakeNoose Jan 2023 #19
We need to levy an assesment IbogaProject Jan 2023 #21
Note that corporations are taking advantage of the Fed Reserve's knee-jerk reactions Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2023 #24
You know, this issue might have some legs moose65 Jan 2023 #28
Raise revenue via the "Wealthy" in phases. no_hypocrisy Feb 2023 #33

multigraincracker

(32,698 posts)
2. Look into a fair wealth tax.
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 08:45 AM
Jan 2023

That would only hit the rich and wealthy. We could have a smaller income tax on working people so they would have some skin in the game. The wealth tax could even be only once every 5 or 10 years.

stopdiggin

(11,320 posts)
6. every single word.
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 09:32 AM
Jan 2023

On the other hand - I really have no desire to return to an Eisenhower era (in any stripe or incarnation). I would settle - and I think politicians I support should advocate - a simply more balanced, equitable, and transparent system of taxation for our country.

As a first step (as is already on the table) - a re-empowered, and adequately funded, IRS to go after the rampant non-payment of taxes that currently make a mockery of any pretense toward a level playing field. Let's re-institute a standard of people paying taxes that they owe. And prosecuting, and shaming, those that don't.

 

The Jungle 1

(4,552 posts)
7. The problem is even bigger than just tax rates
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 09:53 AM
Jan 2023

The amount of tax money we give out in corporate welfare is stunning.
We cut the rich mans taxes and give his business piles of tax money. Pa. just gave a chemical cracker plant 3.65 billion in tax cuts! Pa lags the nation in job creation we lead the nation in corporate welfare.
Many companies pay low wages which means their employees must be supported with our public assistance systems. Some companies instruct their employees how to get the public assistance.
We must change this path.

Kaleva

(36,315 posts)
8. Many rich don't have an income that can be taxed
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 09:56 AM
Jan 2023

You could have. a 90% tax rate and many of the rich still won't pay much iif any in income tax. I think Jeff Bezo has an income of $80,000 a year.

ProfessorGAC

(65,090 posts)
16. Exactly What Happened During Eisenhower
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 10:52 AM
Jan 2023

Under 1% of people eligible for the 90% tax paid that.
The actual effective tax rate on high earners was about 46%.
Still way higher than now, but the 90% rate as a solution is mostly an illusion.

Whiskeytide

(4,461 posts)
30. But the lower actual rate was the result of corps and wealthy businesses ...
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 09:21 PM
Jan 2023

… putting a lot of their earnings into tax deductible categories like expanding facilities, labor and R&D. It created jobs and innovation. Now they mostly pay executives huge salaries and shareholders huge dividends. Not threatening to tax those earnings just squirrels it away for yachts and vacation homes.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for people making money. But we’ve forgotten - or ignored - how we can encourage progress and improve society via the tax structure.

SouthernDem4ever

(6,617 posts)
31. THIS!
Wed Feb 1, 2023, 12:04 AM
Feb 2023

Suze Orman always says "First People, then money, then things. Corporations follow 'First money, then things, then maybe people if we are forced.'

moose65

(3,167 posts)
27. True
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 08:49 PM
Jan 2023

Their outrage about income taxes is just a smokescreen.

In reality, the top 1% really don’t give two shits about income tax rates. What they really care about are capital gains tax rates and inheritance tax rates.

Scrivener7

(50,957 posts)
10. And it's important to remember the rich were not really taxed
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 10:08 AM
Jan 2023

at 90%. The 90% rate only applied to a tiny portion of their earning. So for example, today if we brought it back, it likely wouldn't apply to Bezos's first few hundred million, but it likely would apply to his third and fourth and fifth billion. So it's not like it was a painful tax and the rich were going wanting.

moose65

(3,167 posts)
25. No it wouldn't
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 08:44 PM
Jan 2023

Income taxes are paid on wages. Bezos’ salary is something like $85,000. His wealth lies in the stock he has, which he wouldn’t pay taxes on unless he sold it.

Model35mech

(1,552 posts)
11. Which is why the meme is "NO NEW TAXES!!!!"
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 10:09 AM
Jan 2023

The goal is to starve the Fed government so that it can be drowned in a bathtub.

Why would the R's want that? Because then their states will have equal power with a bankrupted Federal gov't.

Sovreign states with the right to refuse federal laws and regulations is their goal, because such 'states rights' was part of the Articles of Confederation and the Originalists -real- intent is to return to the original organizing document... the one that preceded the Constitution.

KPN

(15,646 posts)
32. Yup. Starve everything they don't want to the point it's ineffective and incompetent
Wed Feb 1, 2023, 02:21 AM
Feb 2023

do they can point to the failures of government and then starve even more government programs in order to privatize it all — even defense these days. So frigging transparent and at least half of all voters fall for the big scam.

Lovie777

(12,299 posts)
12. GQP sure wanted 30% sales tax across broad...........
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 10:40 AM
Jan 2023

that alone should have in GQP's base, let alone cutting to destroying SS, SSI, Medicare and Medicaid along with reducing, not raising wages, etc.

The viable conclusion, the wealthy and corporations pay their fair share of taxes.

But alas, the greedy who has brought politicians will fight tooth and nail to continue the steal.

Lonestarblue

(10,027 posts)
20. Sales tax is regressive, thus hurting the poor more than anyone else. When you look at
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 10:58 AM
Jan 2023

total taxes paid (sales, state, property, gasoline, etc.) many poor and middle income citizens pay a much higher percentage of their income than the billionaires.

I believe we need the federal government to continue investing in new industries, such as alternative energy, medical and drug research, and scientific research. But once funded programs tend to live In perpetuity as evidenced by the many billions we give j subsidies to oil companies every year, even as their product is helping to destroy the planet and fuel ever-higher damage recovery costs for worse storms and environmental degradation. Such programs need an end date, at which point Congress either renews of lets them die.

Obviously, we need a thorough overhaul of our tax laws and system. The IRS would be able to better ensure compliance if we got rid of most of the loopholes and arcane exceptions that wealthy people have bought for themselves over the years.

moose65

(3,167 posts)
26. That's something else that Democrats should broadcast loudly
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 08:47 PM
Jan 2023

Republicans LOVE taxes - taxes on the lower and middle classes. And they love them some fees, which is like a flat tax- everyone pays the same fee.

Farmer-Rick

(10,194 posts)
14. Isn't this the same problem Greece had after the crash of 2008?
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 10:51 AM
Jan 2023

Not just Greece but many other countries too. They refuse to tax the wealthy and their wealth extraction systems - the corporation.

It's a feature of capitalism. When the filthy rich get power in democratic countries they transfer their tax obligation to the middle class and poor. Then they scoop up all the tax payer subsidies, so that the middle class and poor don't get them.

The filthy rich like a debt ridden nation because who do you think is really lending our government the money when the middle class and poor taxation falls short?

This is how the filthy rich loot your country:

- they practically elliminate their tax obligations

- they take all available tax payer funded subsidies for themselves

- they loan money to countries and get interest back on monies they should have paid in taxes.

It's an extra special feature of capitalism that no one told you about.

inwiththenew

(972 posts)
15. Politicians know that if they take care of the wealthy they will be rewarded
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 10:51 AM
Jan 2023

Why do you think they get paid 6 figure speaking fees and are basically gifted seats on the board of directors of these large corporations? Or get some cushy consulting job after leaving Washington?

nightwing1240

(1,996 posts)
17. Ronnie Raygun strikes again!
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 10:54 AM
Jan 2023

He and that trickle down economy BS he sold American voters in 1980. President Clinton helped to get us out of that hole only to have Dubya shove us back in.

KS Toronado

(17,274 posts)
22. Wish our side of the aisle
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 11:42 AM
Jan 2023

would spend more time educating voters that trickle down economics doesn't work and how it affects
everything from the debt ceiling to their own paychecks. Robert Reich's video clips do a good job
of this and should be seen by everyone more often.

FakeNoose

(32,659 posts)
19. Eisenhower understood it - a high tax rate meant that wealthy Americans invested in the future
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 10:58 AM
Jan 2023

The one-per-centers of the 1950's - and there weren't so many super wealthy people then - got tax breaks when they invested their money in business ventures, new factories, community improvements, etc. It wasn't that the government sucked up all the money - no! American business owners voluntarily invested in the future of our country and our economy. They created new jobs, new products, new factories, improved scientific research, more efficient farming practices, and so on down the line.

All Americans benefited from these corporate investments, since this was back when the "trickle-down economy" really worked. Our American economy grew like nothing ever seen in history. Until it stopped. Dead cold. The wealthy got greedy. During Reagan's first term the one-per-centers got the tax laws changed to benefit them and only them. Since the early 80's we've seen the rich getting richer and the rest of us either standing still or losing out.

I know I'm simplifying this to make the point. But it's a story we all know because we've lived it for most of our lives. Until the U.S. tax structures changes, it's hard times for about 95% of us.



IbogaProject

(2,816 posts)
21. We need to levy an assesment
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 11:42 AM
Jan 2023

In HOA, condos and Co-Ops when it's time to do a big repair or upgrade every owner gets an assesment. We need to counter the GOP suggesting spending cuts with a proposal that we levy a progressive assesment and reduce the amount currently owed. Bring the focus to each and every major GOP tax of the last 50 year's. Make this 'ceiling' look as stupid as it is. We make our proposals to be either Asses The Wealthy or Repeal the GOP Ceiling. And remind people that pro German Republicians passed that law 100 years ago to weaken our military. Its their artifice and it's their created mess.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,379 posts)
24. Note that corporations are taking advantage of the Fed Reserve's knee-jerk reactions
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 02:37 PM
Jan 2023

Price gouging and record profits trigger the Fed to do what they always do -- raise interest rates. This pisses people off, who then reinstall Republicans who cut corporate taxes.

moose65

(3,167 posts)
28. You know, this issue might have some legs
Tue Jan 31, 2023, 08:52 PM
Jan 2023

Most of us have never even thought much about this. Thinking about it, it’s outrageous that the rich have had their taxes cut, and they invest in government bonds so they can squeeze even more money out of the government.

A higher tax on them would help to mitigate this somewhat.

no_hypocrisy

(46,136 posts)
33. Raise revenue via the "Wealthy" in phases.
Wed Feb 1, 2023, 07:53 AM
Feb 2023

Start with revoking Trump's and Bush's tax cuts.

Move on to Reagan's tax cuts.

The entire premise of the accumulated tax cuts has been wealth redistribution.

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