Republican genocide of their enemies has expanded beyond trans people

[NullTuples]

Last edited Mon May 15, 2023, 10:03 PM - Edit history (2)

YOU may now be vulnerable. It's not hyperbolic to say that Florida is no longer safe to travel to, or live in, if one has any perceivable indicator of not conforming to Christian / Republican ideals...or any other personal opinion, for that matter. But let's face it, only one group is going to use the law, and they'll use it to hurt people intentionally.

Anyone in a position of any power when it comes to healthcare in Florida can now follow the Catholic Bishops health directive of 2008; just sit back and passively let you die or come to further harm - without repercussion - even when it's their job to help you. If in their mind doing nothing helps to prevent you from sinning, it's the right thing to do. Or simply because they don't like you. Republicans have given up the pretense of it needing to be religion based. And similar to how COVID kills some but damages many more bodies, often for life, this new law will have a similar effect. Healing from injury, disease or damage is far more likely with timely treatment; this new law celebrates delaying treatment if anyone in the care provision chain doesn't like something about you. It's a very Trumpian invitation to anyone who wants to have power over others to use that power to abuse strangers and those who are already marginalized.

This has been posted elsewhere, but DeSantis signed into law CS/SB 1580, the "Protections of Medical Conscience Act".
Bill text is here: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1580/BillText/er/PDF

Addition: I just read a frightening comment elsewhere regarding this bill:

"And why not? Employers can refuse to provide medical insurance for drugs and procedures they disapprove of. . . . why not allow doctors and first responders to do the same thing?"

The implication being that this bill is exactly the sort of thing the current US Supreme Court may well support and encourage nationwide.

[Hortensis]

1. WHAT "genocide" of trans people? And WTF would anyone be doing here

chatting away on social media if it was real?

To me, hyperbole insults those for whom reality is causing real problems, as if they aren't bad enough if they aren't lying in a growing pile of bodies awaiting burial.

Kind of an insult to all of us also.

Reliable names and statistics for any believed to already have committed suicide because their treatment was stopped would be a caring and worthwhile action, if you could bring some. Their lives matter.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

5. Thank you

Hyperbole has become the stock in trade of a fair number of posters at DU.

[Initech]

15. I honestly wouldn't put it above the MAGA shitheads to commit crimes against humanity....

Should they slime their way back to the White House in 2024.

[BlackSkimmer]

39. Ditto.

This makes mock of the real genocide in this world.

[NullTuples]

8. Please stop claiming this is not a "real problem" & that trans people are not dying.

[Hortensis]

10. I did not say that. No to strawman arguments. If there's no

truth to support a position, dump the position, find truth, base a new, worthy position on it.

As I suggested, bring names of those who have committed suicide because their treatment was cut off so we can honor their deaths here and send their names to accuse whose policies contributed to them.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

18. You ARE saying that it's not genocide

To deny people healthcare, when it is targeted denial of care to a specific group of people.

You apparently don't know what constitutes genocide. Here, let me help you with how the UN (who know far more about the matter than you ever will) defines it:

a. Killing members of the group;
b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

So how is denying them necessary medical care not creating deliberate mental harm or subjecting that particular group to conditions "calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part?"

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

Maybe when you don't know what you're talking about, you need to leave the discussion to those who do.

[Hortensis]

19. I feel kind of like I opened and found myself staring down yet another rabbit hole.

My most frequent response is to ask my crazy neighbors to produce the bodies (children murdered by Democrats in their case), but a repellent force caused me to fly backwards.

ExWhoDoesntCare, this isn't really a post-truth world. Overstating and misstating a case so that it outrageously contradicted by reality (and misinterpreting in order to misuse a definition so that its creators would have to disagree) repels rational people. The usual response is to smile and nod and...leave the discussion.

Have a nice evening.

[Ms. Toad]

28. Are you seriously comparing legislation which is on the record targeting trans individuals

is the same as crazy neighbors claiming Democrats murdered children?

Just in 2023

Or simply that you don't believe this legislation is deadly to trans individuals?

(Either way it is offensive to compare it to completely fabricated claims of murder.)

[Hortensis]

29. No to strawman spins. If you can't

honestly produce evidence of genocide, MsToad, involving extermination of a whole population, what are you doing?

Caring people could only be glad that use of that word is just inflated political rhetoric that the current scope of this tragedy doesn’t begin to fit.

Thank all the forces for that. These are real people.

[Ms. Toad]

31. You created the strawman.

You compared the claims in the OP to your crazy neighbors accusing Democrats of murdering children. I didn't make that up, and it is offensive.

There have been over 500 laws introduced in 2023, alone, which are designed expressly to ensure that trans people cannot get proper care, that trans people are silenced, and that it is acceptable to discriminate against trans people. Every state but one has introduced such laws. Seventy of those have already been enacted into law, with about 370 still pending.

Suggesting this is not an attempt to eliminate trans individuals because a list of names of people already dead is not produced is like suggesting that requiring Jews to wear badge with a Judenstern, and restricting them to ghettos, was not something we should bhave been alarmed about or have spoken about in language which reflected the very real threat until a list of dead Jews was produced. By then it is too late.

If you are only interested in the individual "real people" you see as victims because you know their names, you are missing the big picture of what is going on in our country - in a way very similar to those in Germany who turned a blind eye to the overt beginnings of the extermination of Jews and others Nazi Germany.

[Hortensis]

33. I'm sorry to see you go this way, but...the nature of the times.

[Ms. Toad]

36. And I'm sorry that you can't see that anti-trans legislation introduced at a rate of 4/day

and enacted into law at a rate of one every other day is not a systematic attempt to eradicate trans individuals.

Insisting that it is not going on until you see a list of names, or that it is only only the specific named individuals - after they are already dead - whose lives matter is a pretty big blind spot.

[OneGrassRoot]

38. Would "attempted genocide" be more palatable?

There is no doubt to rational people that great harm to and eradication of their enemies is their ultimate goal with such legislation.

[yardwork]

26. Your comment is thoughtlessly, inanely cruel.

Many of us know gay and trans people who have committed suicide or died because of lack of access to healthcare, because of mistreatment at the hands of institutions, their own families, and so forth. All of this is a feature of the Republican platform.

So-called ministers stand up and call for the execution of trans and gay people.

If you're seeking evidence to share with your Trumpy neighbors, it's easy to find online. But your Trumpy neighbors already know this.

[obamanut2012]

20. I cannot get over how they keep saying this stuff

My God.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. .

WHAT "genocide" of trans people?

How else would you define denying health care to people because of who they are in an effort to eliminate them entirely?

Reliable names and statistics for any believed to already have committed suicide because their treatment was stopped would be a caring and worthwhile action, if you could bring some.

This reads like you don't believe it when trans people say not getting the treatment they need is harmful and that you need a body count to take it seriously. We already know the attempt rate among trans people is much higher than the general population. Waiting until there are bodies means waiting too long and it's unacceptable.

We also know that people who do get the treatments they need have much better mental health outcomes:

https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-shows-transgender-people-who-receive-gender-affirming-surgery-are-significantly-less-likely-to-experience-psychological-distress-or-suicidal-ideation/

The study, titled “Association Between Gender-Affirming Surgeries and Mental Health Outcomes,” compared the psychological distress, substance use, and suicide risk of 3,559 transgender people who had undergone gender-affirming surgery with those of 16,401 transgender people who desired gender-affirming surgery but had not yet undergone any. It found that transgender people who had received one or more gender-affirming surgical procedures had a 42% reduction in the odds of experiencing past-month psychological distress, a 35% reduction in the odds of past-year tobacco smoking, and a 44% reduction in the odds of past-year suicidal ideation.

[vercetti2021]

16. Uhhhhhhhh try legislating us out of existence?

Banning gender affirming care for minors is the beginning. You get them young before they have a chance and these kids are likely to commit suicide at much higher rates. Now they are trying to bend the rules for health providers to deny adults the same care. Also let's see...banning trans people from changing their names and gender, trying to prevent us from using the bathroom.

Shall I go on? Not to mention majority of states still have trans panic laws in place.

What genocide? Yall pretend it isn't happening. Take it from me...a trans woman. IT IS HAPPENING

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

17. You're responding to someone who thinks it diminishes rape

To use the term to refer to anything but rape involving a penis. Any surprise that the same person considers it "hyperbole" to say that denying people necessary medical care isn't genocide as well?

How dare you see genocide in something that's not life-threatening to that person?! Edited to add:

[obamanut2012]

21. Yup, if it wasn't using in a "traditional rape," then it isn't rape

And now this.

Jeebus.

[vercetti2021]

24. Wooooooooow

That's scary. Rape is rape, it doesn't matter whom it is.

[Ms. Toad]

27. Do you demand the same of people who correctly assert that abortions bans will kill?

That such bans are harmless (and shouldn't be talked about on social media) until a list of the dead is produced?

And isn't one of the challenges directed to "good" Germans is knowing but remaining silent?

The policies which:
Ban gender-affirming care for youth and, in some instances, adults
Prohibit recognition by schools and state entities of an individual's gender identity
Require school professionals to report parents supporting their children in seeking gender affirming care
Require individuals to use the bathrooms of the M/F assigned at birth
Prohibit participation in gender-based activities
Requiring years of therapy and the absence of any mental health conditions before starting hormone therapy
etc.

Are every bit as deadly as the anti-abortion laws. Both because of the direct impact on the mental health of the individuals impacted, and in the demonizing of trans individuals which gives permission to those bullying and carrying out violence against trans individuals.

[Tommy Carcetti]

32. Agreed.

Terrible policy is terrible policy, but genocide is genocide.

People made the same specious argument about cutting Social Security benefits.

Which for the record is also terrible policy. But not genocide.

[BlackSkimmer]

40. Thank you. nt

[vlyons]

2. Think how many health professionals they can lay off

if there are fewer patients in clinics and hospitals. Cut way back on EMC too.

[RKP5637]

3. And it in essence brings back the legality of persecutions and tortures in a medical sense.

I had some minor surgery scheduled and I canceled it. I no longer trust hospitals in Florida. All it takes is some wacky doctors and staff and you are dead. For example, the angle of death and like, etc. In fact, I trust nothing in Florida anymore.

[Hortensis]

34. Well, I don't question that the intent of this legislation is persecution,

which includes denying medical care, no matter how they try to dress it up.

I'm concerned, though, that in future you could deny yourself needed modern medical care, out of an excess of suspicion and distrust. There are a lot of good people in medicine. Keep yourself well -- and others need you to also.

Someday, if we didn't stop them, people like them would support genocide. We need every voter healthy enough mentally and physically to make sure it never becomes more than a scary insight into how "it" happens.

[RKP5637]

41. Absolutely true!!! There are many good people in medicine. I had an experience a couple of years

back in a major hospital in Florida. I had major surgery. A few of the nurses were hostile to me, I have no idea why. Maybe something on my medical chart said LGBT. Whatever, they tried to detain some pain medication from me. They asked me my pain level after the operation, I told them, and they screamed all you want is drugs. A total WTF what they were talking about. Whatever, I escalated it and a pleasant nurse came in and give me the medication I was supposed to receive.

The guy next to me was pleasant. One nurse helping him kept making derogatorily LGBT remarks in conversations with him and his wife ... the curtain was closed. It was unpleasant to hear this crap when recovering from an operation, and one of them kept talking about how great Trump is and how he was getting rid of the democratic criminals.

I've since learned there is some affiliation with some of their higher ups or something with the proud boys. Anyway, that's a long story short. With these stupid ugly laws with DeSantis in Florida, I can imagine it would be a far worse time now. Florida has really become an ugly state, it is a shame. I also fear what states will look like with a republican win in 2024 for president, and the balance of congress. Hence my agenda to get out of Florida. It is just so weird and cruel.

The entire GOP agenda is hatefulness and ugliness. I find it incredible and shocking. I think they truly want the US to become a fascist dictatorship.

[Hortensis]

43. Wow, what a terrible, and alarming, experience.

And of course there are so many horror stories related to withholding pain medication.

Bottom line, though, any of us would be far better off with caregivers whose principles rule wherever they are than anywhere with the unprincipled types you describe. And both are everywhere. We all need to know our rights as patients wherever we are.

That said, beyond doubt relaxing and eliminating standards in the many red states now doing that is encouraging malicious people to act out more than they dared before. We know how they are.

Moving to seek healthcare elsewhere is an option for some, but talking with other people and finding good healthcare providers in our own area, and some recommendations for who to avoid, is an option for all.

[brewens]

4. When I was a kid, a guy from Idaho with hair as long as I have would have had serious

trouble in the deep south. I'd be one a them long hairs and a yankee!

[RKP5637]

6. With some of these MAGA people in FL, they just look at you and make quick decisions. Also, now

with the easy availability of guns and concealed weapons in FL you have no idea who you are dealing with. Likely much of it is safe, but then again some is not.

[BlackSkimmer]

14. Sure.

One of my closest friends in Florida was from Boston, with long hair, beard, tattoos all over and he rode a motorcycle. This was many, many years ago.

He still lives there as far as I know, and last I heard was doing quite well.

[NullTuples]

25. You just described the appearance of a member of Trump's MAGA biker gang

I'm not saying your friend is a MAGA biker, only that it's quite possible he feels right at home in Florida &/or people *assume* he is and so they leave him alone or celebrate who they think he is.

For those who've forgotten:

"Meet the Vigilantes Who Patrol Trump’s Rallies"
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/donald-trump-2016-vigilante-security-213847/

"Donald Trump is backed by an ultra-nationalist biker gang"
(WaPo, paywall)

"Trump Warns: It Would Be ‘Very Bad’ if My Police, Biker Gang Fans Decided to Get ‘Tough’ on My Opponents"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-warns-it-would-be-very-bad-if-my-police-biker-gang-fans-decided-to-get-tough-on-my-opponents

[J_William_Ryan]

7. It's the Fascist State of Florida

Well done, conservatives.

[CousinIT]

11. This is intentional and it is Christian Nationalists' plan for the entire US....

You can read some of what their plans/attitudes are here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217913767

They have captured the courts. Now they're capturing public schools. And they have rigged/suppressed the vote/gerrymandered our elections and gutted the VRA. Frankly, I don't think the Democratic Party acted against this soon enough, strongly enough and though they may be more aware and fighting more strongly now, it still isn't enough. What if it's never enough? Because where the American Taliban (some here don't like my using that term either but it IS Taliban-style extremism so the moniker fits IMO) want to take the US is clearly outlined in their manifesto: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1657328729683632129.html

If we can't defeat this, THERE WILL BE NOWHERE SAFE for the majority of Americans - especially people of color, LGBTQ, migrants, women, the poor, or non-religious people, to even BE.

[RKP5637]

12. K&R!!! And this is with a democratic president and senate. Imagine with trump or desantis as pres.

and a gop congress.

[BlackSkimmer]

13. Where do you live in Florida?

None of my friends there are feeling in danger.

Curious as to where in Florida you live?

[obamanut2012]

22. I felt in danger and left

As did my wife.

[BlackSkimmer]

23. Where? North? South? Mid?

Certainly not the Keys, and south Florida is as gay friendly as can be.

Sorry you felt in danger. From what though? Neighbors? Co-workers? I just don’t get this.

All the years I lived there, I never once felt “in danger.”

[Tickle]

30. Wait, that's not what I read

I read the two pages that the link took me to. It's not genocide, it's about conscience decisions for medical doctors. Example, abortion, Dr don't have to take part in it. Trans operations would be another example. That's how I read it 😁 I wouldn't want one of those Dr to touch my child

[Hortensis]

35. Yup, legal protections those for denying care based on "medical conscience."

Amen to that last. No doubt a huge majority of the parents feel that way.

[Ms. Toad]

37. Whether or not I would choose to use the services of one of those doctors

is my choice. Or - I may not have another choice, depending on the limitations of my insurance.

If my employer has contracted with an insurance provider to provide gender-affirming care (or I have independently chosen a plan which covers such care), my insurer likely has a network. Especially in less populated areas there my only be one or two providers with the specialty that includes such care.

The bill allows doctors to refuse such treatment. If that doctor is the only one with that specialty within my network, that means that I would need to go out of network and pay a higher cost - OR - have it completely uncovered. It also allows the insurance provider to refuse to pay, despite the contract with either the employer or me. (It is likely that, during any existing contract at least, that the pre-existing contract would control - BUT - it would require a delay in care (unless the individual seeking coverage has the financial means to pay for it).

Anyone who is outraged that pharmacies can choose not to fill prescriptions for birth control or the morning after pill should be equally outraged by this bill.

[NullTuples]

42. That is genocide, it's just a quieter version.

As far as the scope goes, it is anyone in the entire chain of care, from insurance clerk to doctor to pharmacist that can prevent someone from obtaining health care that can be life saving.

The stated goal is to prevent trans people from obtaining that medically indicated care.

Here in Northern California, all major hospitals north of Roseville (near Sacramento) to the Oregon border are owned by or partnered with the Catholic Church. As such, they refuse to provide transgender health care of any sort. Same for anything connected to abortion or other care that would end a pregnancy. That leaves trans teens and adults with only two choices to get that level of care: Drive down to the Bay Area, which can be as much as a four hour drive, or move hundreds of miles to the south if they are able to do so. Consequently, young trans people move as soon as they are physically and economically able to do so. But not all are that fortunate, and thus are forced to endure the consequences of their bodies going through the wrong puberty, or living in a body that causes them sometimes extreme discomfort & anguish. Some don't make it. But that's not the only point, only an extra benefit from the bigots' point of view. The primary benefit driving the efforts is to erase trans people from society completely because we call into question certain bedrock assumptions conservatives hold dear.

[BrinksHomeSexcurity]

44. When it gets to actual genocide, that's when you start shooting republicans.

I don't think we're there yet.

[NullTuples]

45. I think perhaps you may be unaware of the full definition of "genocide"?

it's explained in detail here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217914460