Our Education System Sucks

[NowISeetheLight]

Student test scores plummeted after Covid. It's like Japan's "lost generation".

https://www.axios.com/2023/06/21/schools-students-reading-math-test-scores-decline

https://www.the74million.org/article/naep-scores-flashing-red-after-a-lost-generation-of-learning-for-13-year-olds/

But they were lousy before Covid too.

America needs to start investing in Pre-K and education. Other countries are way ahead of us in educational attainment.

Per a US News study in 2020 these are the best countries with the Best Educational Systems

Denmark
Finland
Japan
Canada
Sweden
Germany
Israel
Netherlands
Singapore
South Korea

I don't see America anywhere on this list. One article I read said this.

According to a Business Insider report in 2018, the U.S. ranked 38th in math scores and 24th in science. Discussions about why the United States' education rankings have fallen by international standards over the past three decades frequently point out that government spending on education has failed to keep up with inflation.

Pathetic. We are the richest nation on earth. But we are so focused on greed and capitalism we are sacrificing our future. Education is our future. For profit colleges, for profit charter schools, homeschooling with Nazi curriculum, WTF???

I see Finland #2 on the list. Finland has been ranked the "Happiest country on earth" the last six years. It's where my grandparents emigrated from in the late 1890s as children. They actually fund social programs and education and aren't obsessed with "stuff". What a concept. I've been reading about moving there as a backup if America goes completely MAGA off the rails.

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/27/1166180048/finland-is-the-worlds-happiest-country-for-the-6th-straight-year#:~:text=Finland%20is%20the%20world's%20happiest%20country%20again.,expenses%2Dpaid%20trip%20for%2010.

[vlyons]

1. Home schooling and Bible schools don't help

Teaching kids to memorize bible verses rather than solve calculus and chemistry problems

[Kaleva]

6. I don't know what good being able to solve calculus problems....

and chemistry problems would do me.

In the Navy I worked on and was responsible for weapons direction systems and after I got out, I serviced and installed heating and air conditioning systems.

My math skills are limited to addition, subtraction, multiplication and division and that is all I've ever needed. I don't know how to do math using fractions not can I convert fractions to decimals and vise versa

[Casady1]

9. Math is a form

of logical thinking. It provides for rational and structured thought.

[Kaleva]

12. But could one could achieve that with basic math?

[Casady1]

15. Didn't you just say

that you learned everything you needed to know by eighth grade?

[Kaleva]

20. Yes. Basic math classes ended up on completion of the 8th grade

[NowISeetheLight]

33. Algebra

I never had algebra in HS. In junior college I had to hire a tutor to get thru beginning, intermediate and finally college algebra. To be honest I've never used it in real life but learning it was good for me. I do remember the sense of accomplishment I felt learning something and getting the B+ in college algebra.

I was oriented toward reading. I was always bored in school. I remember counselors talking to my parents because I'd do lousy in class but score in the 98th percentile on the Iowa tests they'd give every year. When I joined the Navy I scored a 97 on the ASVAB test. The recruiter thought I should go nuke and I took the NFQT. I won't repeat the score but it wasnt even 50 LOL. I wasn't a math genius.

People can be good at one thing and not another. Learning new things is good but you dont need to learn everything. Countries like Germany that test kids and steer them into trades if that is what theyre good at are doing it right. The whole "everyone has to go to college" crap has to stop. Schools need to stop the "one size fits all" focus.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

46. You use algebra all the time

You just haven't made the association of it to what you're doing with numbers.

Calculating a tip at a restaurant is algebra. $85 * .15 = x, x = 12.75

Trying to figure out the sales tax of the meal and then adding the tip to figure out what the total bill will be for that meal (y) is algebra: (85 + 12.75) + (85*.0825) = y

y = 97.75 + 7.01
y = 104.76

If you've ever tried to figure out how much compound interest you'd earn on a savings account? That's definitely algebra.

Anytime you're trying to find an unknown, it's algebra. Some unknowns are simple, while others are more complex than others, but they're all algebra.

[NowISeetheLight]

47. How I Do It

If I have a $10 bill at a restaurant I take 10% of that ($1.00) then half of that ($.50) and add it together ($1.50 tip). No X or Y involved.

As for compounding interest there are great online calculators for that. The last time I used "algebra" in the way I used it in school was in school.

[ProfessorGAC]

55. That's Still Algebra

As soon as you added the 50% or 10%, that was algebra!
You may have taught yourself that, but you still did it algebraically!

[NowISeetheLight]

60. Junior High

I learned percentages and fractions in junior high I think.

[ProfessorGAC]

67. Since I Retired...

...I substitute math & science, grades 7-12. Mostly in the winter when golf is not an option.
7th and 8th graders do learn as you did, fractions, ratios, percentages & single variable algebra, with 8th graders getting some exposure to 2 variables where the "y" is given as a function of "x". They're not learning to truly solve for 2 unknown variables.
But, they are learning pretty much the same stuff you & I did at that age.

[NowISeetheLight]

70. I Wish

I wish I remembered it. I enjoyed learning something new. I’ve actually considered looking at algebra again just for the heck of it. The tutor I had at the learning center at community college was awesome. He was great. I remember asking him if he was going to be a math teacher and he said no, he was going into psychology. He just had a knack for it and was making some extra money. He would’ve been a great teacher.

[Johnny2X2X]

18. STEM is incredinly lacking right now

Science Technology Engineering Mathematics.

We are falling behind in engineering. We cannot find enough engineers to drive our economy forward.

IMO, college for STEM type degrees should be free, we cannot afford to keep not graduating enough engineers.

[JanMichael]

52. Then it shouldn't help anybody right? Ever the contrarian.

You are correct most HVAC installers wouldn't need calculus maybe not even English maybe not science certainly not social studies probably not history I doubt chemistry and so on and so on.

[Kaleva]

65. Where did I say it won't help everybody.

I have two step sons. One is a doctor who went through years of college. The other dropped out of hs and has his own construction company at the age of 28. Both are successful even though there is a wide disparity in the level of education each has.

[vercetti2021]

63. I was homeschooled

I learned more about actual history, science and about finances than you would in school. It depends on the parents you get.

[Biophilic]

2. We need to invest in schools and materials, but mostly we need to invest in teachers.

We need many more teachers. We need to give teachers our support in every way.

[2naSalit]

45. +1

They need to be respected.

[Debunk.Bunk]

3. yes

absolutely right

[unblock]

4. Locally funded education. How incredibly stupid

Most public education in this country is funded by local property taxes. And each state has its own requirements, further modified in each school district.

How much duplication and how many separate approvals are involved? Why not have a national program for at least most subjects? States should only care about things like local geography and state history. But math and chemistry and so on aren't different from town to town.

But hey, funding with property taxes means that rich white people don't have to think about their tax dollars going to fund education for poor black people so that's why we still do it that way. Nothing racist about it in the slightest

[jimfields33]

21. We are 6th in the world on education spending federally

https://research.com/education/public-education-spending-statistics#:~:text=Percentage%20of%20GDP%20Spent%20by%20the%20U.S.%20on%20Education&text=The%20U.S.%20reported%203.6%25%20of,percentage%20of%20GDP%20on%20education.


We not only give to schools locally, but federal government also spends 3.2 of our GDP annually. Not sure if money is exclusively the reason. There’s a bundle of reasons.

[ProfessorGAC]

56. This Site Shows It Even Higher

Over 6% of GDP for primary & secondary education. But, that seems high.
It does appear that's TOTAL spending, not just federal dollars.
https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/macroeconomic/expenditure-on-education-as-a-of-gdp-in-the-united-states/

[NowISeetheLight]

64. Kind of Like Healthcare

It’s like healthcare. Spend a fortune and get lousy results. Money is being allocated but it’s going to the wrong things.

I checked out the link you posted. I wish it had more detail. For example is it all education including colleges? If it includes colleges that are for-profit and/or expensive it explains why private spending is so high. I’d like to see K-12 expenditures, the numbers of students by category (public vs private) and the overall spending in those groups.

” The expenditure on education as a % of GDP in the US was 6.4% in 2020, an increase of 3.8% from the previous year. Between 2010-2020, the expenditure on education as a % of GDP in the United States decreased by 16.7%. In 2020, the US spent more than $1.3 trillion on education, with private education expenditure of $354 billion and public education expenditure of $984 billion.

[ProfessorGAC]

66. It Says In The Body Of The Text...

...it's for primary & secondary education, not higher education.
Still seems awfully high, though. With around 50 million K-12 public school students, it's around $27,000 per student.
Smoothed out across all states & districts, it seems high.
Until about 4 years ago, the district where I live, in a town of 6,000, was paying the Superintendent a quarter million a year. When he retired, the new super gets $145k.
So, right there we know thus district was wasting a hundred grand a year!
Like you said, spending money the wrong way.

[NowISeetheLight]

69. Missed That - Thanks

I missed that then. I looked must’ve just not seen it. I found online a listing of per pupil spending K-12 per state. A wide range. I realize less expensive places will pay teachers less and thus spend less, but these are huge differences. (Source - world population review.com)

PER PUPIL SPENDING AVERAGE BY STATE

New York. $24,040
DC. $22,759
Connecticut. $20,635
New Jersey. $20,021
Alaska. $17,726
Massachusetts. $17,058
New Hampshire. $16,893
Pennsylvania. $16,395
Wyoming. $16,224
Rhode Island. $16,121
Illinois. $15,741
Delaware. $15,639
Hawaii. $15,242
Maryland. $14,762
Maine. $14,145
North Dakota. $13,758
Ohio. $13,027
Washington. $12,995
Minnesota. $12,975
California. $12,498
Nebraska. $12,491
Michigan. $12,345
Wisconsin. $12,285
Virginia. $12,216
Oregon. $11,920
Iowa. $11,732
Montana. $11,680
Kansas. $11,653
Louisiana. $11,452
West Virginia. $11,334
Kentucky. $11,110
South Carolina. $10,856
Georgia. $10,810
Missouri. $10,810
Indiana. $10,262
Colorado. $10,202
Arkansas. $10,139
South Dakota. $10,073
Alabama. $9,696
Texas. $9,606
New Mexico. $9,582
Tennessee. $9,544
Nevada. $9,417
North Carolina. $9,377
Florida. $9,346
Vermont. $9,340
Mississippi. $8,935
Arizona. $8,239
Oklahoma. $8,239
Idaho. $7,771
Utah. $7,628

AVERAGE TEACHER ANNUAL SALARY BY STATE

New York. $92,222
Massachusetts. $88,903
California. $87,275
DC. $82,523
Washington. $81,586
Connecticut. $81,185
New Jersey. $79,045
Rhode Island. $76,852
Maryland. $75,766
Alaska. $73,722
Pennsylvania. $72,428
Illinois. $72,301
Oregon. $69,671
Minnesota. $68,491
Hawaii. $67,000
Delaware. $65,647
Michigan. $65,198
Ohio. $63,153
Vermont. $62,866
New Hampshire. $62,783
Georgia. $61,249
Wyoming. $60,820
Wisconsin. $60,453
Virginia. $59,965
Iowa. $59,262
Texas. $58,887
Maine. $58,757
Utah. $58,619
Colorado. $58,481
Nevada. $57,804
Nebraska. $57,420
Alabama. $55,834
North Dakota. $55,769
Kansas. $54,815
Oklahoma. $54,804
Arizona. $54,580
Kentucky. $54,574
New Mexico. $54,272
Idaho. $54,232
Indiana. $54,126
North Carolina. $53,644
Montana. $53,628
Tennessee. $53,619
South Carolina. $53,393
Arkansas. $52,486
Missouri. $52,481
Louisiana. $52,376
Florida. $51,230
West Virginia. $50,315
South Dakota. $49,761
Mississippi. $47,162

[Scrivener7]

5. One thing those countries have in common is that they

use what we know about brain development to determine curricula at young ages.

For example they don't start academics until around our second grade age. Before that it is all age-appropriate play and development of self regulation.

We, of course, work in opposition to brain development because a multi-billion dollar company tells us to.

[Kaleva]

7. All the education I ever needed I had gotten by the end of the 8th grade.

The only class of value that I took in HS was Typing I and Typing II.

[Casady1]

11. College level

history and political science are not taught in eighth grade.

[Kaleva]

17. What would I do with political science?

As for history, I liked to read and my favorite subject was history. Particularly military history .

[Casady1]

22. basic math does not cover

deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning is the beginning of logic.

[Kaleva]

24. And yet I was able to repair complex weapons systems, heating systems,

and air conditioning systems. I was good at it . It requires the ability to think and deduce. Skills I learned by the end of the 8th grade .

[Casady1]

27. okay

you are one of a kind. Would you prescribe this for the whole country and every student?

[IbogaProject]

44. We had a president who was educated to around an 8th grade level

Things didn't get too messed up during 2017-20?

[Kaleva]

48. DeSantis graduated from Yale and Harvard

You think he'd make an excellent president?

If level of education was the main criteria, we should be supporting DeSantis over Biden

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

53. Your logical fallacy is equivocation.

It's the manipulation of a word that has multiple meanings to put words into the mouths of people who aren't saying what you are, and that word in this case is "educated."

Educated can mean either being knowledgeable after careful study, or it can mean having certification from an institute of learning. Those two things are not always the same thing.

Just because someone has a degree does not mean they are educated. It is entirely possible to squeak through a uni, even a prestigious one, and either learn nothing, or only retain it long enough to get through a class (or series of classes) and then dump it all once they have the degree in hand. That happens all the time, else we wouldn't have a plethora of idiots with Harvard degrees in the world.

Yes, it is possible for someone with no college degree to be "educated" in the sense of "knowledgeable" or "learned;" however, that person will rarely equal the extent of knowledge held by someone who did go to college and bothered to take advantage of the opportunity to learn whatever they could there. I can always tell the people who made good use of their college English or history classes by what they see in books, movies, and current events compared to people who did not attend college.

Anyway, DuhSatan is educated in the sense of having a degree, but he's uneducated in the sense of knowing anything worthwhile. Adam Schiff is educated in having a degree, and also in the sense of knowing worthwhile things. Unlike DuhSatan, Schiff has retained what he learned at uni, and then expanded beyond that, even, because he's the kind who cares about knowing reality.

Oh--and logical fallacies? It's uncommon for people to learn about them outside of the few brave souls who take logic or critical thinking in uni. Of course, some people do learn about them outside of formal education, but that doesn't happen very often. Certainly not often enough.

[Casady1]

26. Political science

covers political philosophy and that is why numbskulls think that current republicans contributed to the civil rights movement.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

49. Political science is a modern term for civics

And civics is nothing more than teaching you how government works and how it affects your life.

You're on a political board, and you seriously think that it's not important to know how government works?

[jimfields33]

23. It shouldn't be taught at those grades.

[stopdiggin]

25. I'm not sure of the purpose behind this post

But - safe to say, it is not a prescription for any sort of healthy education - either at a personal or societal level. And as for a democratic bulwark ...

(There are of course independent learners - outside the curve in almost all respects - and always have been. Poster is quite possibly one of these - and more power .... But that is not what the discussion here is concerning. At least that wasn't my take.)

------ ------

[Kaleva]

28. My argument is that not everyone needs higher education

This country has a serious shortage of workers in the trades. Jobs where one can excel with an education in the basics.

[Casady1]

29. Education is needed

for the general population to understand how our system works. This topic we are discussing is for the entire country and not an individual like you.

[Kaleva]

36. Didn't DeSantis graduate from Yale and Harvard?

"From Yale Law to Oath Keepers: Stewart Rhodes’s Unlikely Journey"

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/us/stewart-rhodes-oath-keepers-yale-law.html

[stopdiggin]

34. rubbish. Anybody that has the capability

for a full education - should almost certainly take advantage of it. If you want to go back to work 'in a trade' (an increasing number of which just happen to 'require' a certain degree of ability and education these days) - that's fine - go for it! Follow your bliss! But don't drag down and trap a bunch of your fellow citizens (students) down there in the manhole (through an educational lack) along with you.

I'm sorry, sir - but I have to disagree with your point - in its entirety!

[Kaleva]

38. Where did I say people shouldn't take full advantage of what's offered?

What I said is not everyone needs higher education . I have 3 siblings with hs diplomas who make 6 figures each . My youngest stepson is a hs dropout and he has his own construction company.

[stopdiggin]

59. glad it's worked out for you

Still can't imagine why you would encourage anyone else to (voluntarily) limit their potential and horizons. Particularly during young, impressionable, and formative years.

Or .. further, why you might think it is a solid prescription for either our education system, or society. Please take a look at what statistics have to say about earnings for people shy of a high school education.

[Kaleva]

68. You may have heard of people saddled with massive amounts of college debt

Their advanced education has not panned out for them .

Not everybody needs to go to a four year college.

As I mentioned, I have 3 siblings with high school diplomas who each made 6 figures a year. My youngest stepson dropped out of high school and now has his own construction company at the age of 28.

[stopdiggin]

71. college debt is a serious concern

and is still not a solid argument in favor of facing today's job market and economy - with a high school diploma or (as you previously suggest) something even less. I'm sorry - but as much as you point to personal experiences - the broader picture just simply does not back up your point of view. And plenty of evidence to say that you're just plain wrong.

Even the military is no longer accepting dummies that haven't graduated from high school. Tell you something? Some degree of education (and we're not talking typewriting, shop class, or base level addition/subtraction math) is of benefit to bearer, the workforce, and society as a whole. (just as the military has determined over the years)

And the fact that you doggedly argue against such a simple truth ... Frankly pretty discouraging.

But, with that - I think both of us have pretty much had our opportunity to say our piece ...
And, I'll bid you goodnight - and adieu.

----- -----

[Kaleva]

72. It is a fact that are shortages of people in the trades where pay is good.

"A sizable professional trades shortage exists in Michigan and is expected to continue through 2026. Professional trades will account for more than 545,000 jobs in the Michigan economy, and approximately 47,000 new job openings are expected annually in the state during that time.

Wages for professional trades occupations is 45 percent higher than other occupations – $54,000 is the median annual salary for these jobs!"

https://www.mitalent.org/skilled-trades#:~:text=A%20sizable%20professional%20trades%20shortage,the%20state%20during%20that%20time.

,Your comment

"Even the military is no longer accepting dummies that haven't graduated from high school. Tell you something? Some degree of education (and we're not talking typewriting, shop class, or base level addition/subtraction math) is of benefit to bearer, the workforce, and society as a whole. (just as the military has determined over the years)"

To excel in the military, one doesn't need advanced classes because that knowledge will be of little help to you in doing your job . A good knowledge of the basics is all that one needs. A strong work ethic, the ability to work as a team and willing to follow orders will get one further then calculus or trigonometry.. One brother of mine, with just a hs diploma, enlisted in the Air Force and ended his career as a member of the elite Thunderbirds team. After he retired, he immediately was hired by Lockheed Martin and is one of the 3 siblings making 6 figures

[NowISeetheLight]

35. Just Pissed

Part of it is just venting. My experience with our educational system wasn't great. It didn't serve my needs. Today I'd be considered "gifted" and have targeted opportunities for focused learning in areas I'd excel at. In the 70s and 80s they didn't exist.

The other part is I'd have those opportunities in some school districts. I grew up in a middle-upper class suburb of Minneapolis. My old district has opportunities now. Even today there are a lot of schools in the state where there still aren't those opportunities.

How many Jonas Salk and Louis Pasteurs and Stephen Hawkings are out there languishing in sub-par public schools because we don't provide opportunity? What could they achieve? I just think about what we could accomplish as a society without the greed focus.

[NowISeetheLight]

30. Typing

I remember 1979 starting the four YEARS of typing from 9th to 12th grade. My HS was kind of progressive with modular scheduling. Your parents got to pick half your electives but you got to pick the other. My Mom insisted I take four years of typing. I still remember the old selectric typewriters with those letter balls and the teachers name. By far that is the skill I've used the most in my life. I still type 70wpm plus. Typing needs to be a mandatory class.

[Kaleva]

39. I recall when we switched from manual to electric and back again

When used to manual, the teacher then switched us to electric. Ended up typing a whole bunch of extra letters until we got used to the touch. Then when we switched back to manual, it was like it took all our strength to hit one key.

[NowISeetheLight]

41. Manual

I remember we had a manual typewriter at home. It was awful. From the 60s or something.

[haele]

8. Teachers and Librarians have been leaving in droves since just before the pandemic

Attacks on education and proliferation of for profit educational systems that naturally cater to the most common denominator of profiteering - the agendas of legislative bean counters and religion,-based social engineers along with lazy taxpayers - are what is causing the drop in test scores and children's understanding of "the basics".
Pearson Education is just as bad as cell phones for kids, in my opinion. Pearson captures school administrators just as much as social media captures children.

Haele

[stopdiggin]

10. the countries listed

do not have (for the most part) the pockets of abject poverty that occur here. And ... I am not sure about the level of 'private schooling' in those countries - but do know that it is extremely prevalent (and growing more so) in the U.S.

It ain't exactly rocket science - but it does seem to be somewhat intractable, in an increasingly stratified society.

Your post is completely spot on. This is 99% about selfishness and greed - and a diminished social conscience.

[Torchlight]

13. I used to think the HS I attended was horrible.

Then I realized I was provided with many tools, resources and primers that I simply ignored at the time and conveniently forgot existed over the years since. I think it was so I could blame my less-than-stellar academic performance on everyone and everything but me.

[jimfields33]

14. Our population is huge compared to all of those countries.

You don’t see China and India on the list. We spend a lot of money on k-12 education. Sure we could spend more. But an entire paradigm would have to switch. Schools year round. 9-5 everyday. Saturday school like South Korea. A total revamp of the system. Perhaps a way to deal with kids who disrupt. Parental participation. A lot must and can be changed but do we have the stomach for it?

[brooklynite]

16. Not unique to US (public) education institutions

I'm on the Board of a high-rated school in Europe. COVID has had an impact on education results world-wide, for the simple reason that students weren't in school. Online learning from home is harder to oversee, and students can be distracted by the smartphones, tablets and other computer screens while theoretically reading. The High School Class of 2025 will be the first to be fully in school post-COVID. That will be an important reference point.

[NowISeetheLight]

37. Pre-Covid

How were things pre-covid for your school?

[brooklynite]

40. Some of the highest IB scores in Europe...and higher than the US average.

[Lonestarblue]

19. The article I read states that there was a noticeable drop in scores in 2012.

So what was happening just before then? In 2010 Republicans gained control of many school board and state houses. Many promptly started meddling in public education, though red states have always tried to mold public education to suit conservative beliefs.

The leftover cuts from the Great Recession probably were not restored. Charter schools were beginning to siphon money from public schools. Mainstreaming had become the primary education model, and if not done well it has a deleterious effect on the learning of non-disabled students.

Teacher salaries have not kept up with inflation, and many people have left the profession. A few years ago, education was so bad in Kansas after Republicans cut taxes for the rich and just kept cutting money from education that many teachers left the state. Kids were learning from social studies books that were 20+ years out of date and falling apart because there was no money for books. Republican policies definitely hurt education.

Things have not improved since 2012. Some states, like Texas, increased class size to avoid hiring more teachers. When this was done a Texas, a number of veteran teachers left the profession because trying to teach a class of 35-40 kids is not conducive to learning. Ideal class sizes are close to 20.

In addition, social media has had an impact on school behavior and on classroom disturbances. Kids also mirror the behavior of the adults around them, and we have a non-civil society that seeks violence to solve even minor disagreements. Most kids also now have cellphones, and parents demand that they have access to them so they can call 911 if an active shooter is trying to murder them!

We need an overhaul of our approach to education, but Republicans are not serious partners. They only blame unions for all the problems and want to get their hands on public monies by starting for-profit charter schools. What DeSantis is doing in Florida will not help education and is likely to make things worse as experienced teachers choose to leave and partisan school boards hire hacks who believe as they believe but have little or no teaching experience.

Sadly, I see student scores onky getting worse.

[pandr32]

31. We should want to change this ASAP.

We're number one, right? Well, apparently not, but we should do all we can to do better.
How we compare with other countries is bad enough, but if we look at how we stack up state to state is an eye opener as well.

[Quakerfriend]

32. So true. The Repugs have been successful

in dumbing down public education, in particular & by diminishing the profession of teaching.

Bernie seems to be the only one who cares to push for higher starting salaries & free public colleges.

My MD cousin who went to public school in the northeast, and later raised his 3 boys in SC, was complaining about the poor education his boys got. He is a repug & hasn’t made the connection btw. the Repugs and their desire to destroy public education.

[FakeNoose]

42. Homeschooling more than anything relies on the abilities - and patience - of the parents

If the parents are lacking the knowledge or teaching skills in any area, the kids will miss out. Not all children were harmed during the blackout/quarantine time, but many were because of their parents' lack of preparation and follow-through.

Now who's getting blamed? The teachers, of course.

[NowISeetheLight]

43. Homeschool

I'm continually amazed at how anyone can homeschool. Have a 6th grade education? You're qualified!

[pfitz59]

50. Smart kids are bullied in America

Especially women. There is a strong 'anti-intellectual' strain in our heritage. A lot has to do with our national obsession with religion (faith over facts) and arrogant exceptionalism (don't tell ME what to do). I see no easy fix.

[betsuni]

61. +1

[Wolves ov Siberia]

51. Just made a quick list

From my vantage point I would say these are some of the issues:

No Child Left Behind
Restorative Discipline
Smart Phones
Parents that want to be young and cool
Decline in morals/values
Great Recession
Cuts in Education Spending
How Public School is funded
Loss of what's important in life (valuing sports over education)

[DFW]

54. My girls went through the German educational system until college

The system here is very Darwinian, and is designed to weed out the "inferior" students and prevent them from going to a good high school, and exclude them from a university level education. My elder daughter was so smacked down by the German system that she couldn't wait to get the hell out of here and over to the USA. She was told all her life that she wasn't "aggressive" enough, and would never amount to anything academically. Four years after her high school (equivalent, called "Gymnasium" here) graduation here in Germany, she called me up from the USA, just before graduating college, to ask me what the English word "valedictorian" meant, and why did it mean she had to give a speech in English in front of 3000 people? After a lifetime of her German schools telling her how stupid she was, it never occurred to her that maybe they were wrong, and she wasn't.

Her younger sister left Germany at an even earlier age to go to school in the USA, and never came back until the Cheney-Bush recession, when there were no jobs in her field to be had in the USA. Still, the fabulous job she got here in Germany had one major condition attached--she had to have a US diploma in her field. As dual citizens, my daughters had the advantage of being able to work where they wanted. And let NO ONE get the idea that here in Germany, school is "free." It is not. The buildings were not put up for free. The utilities are not provided for free. The teachers and professors do not work for free. Education is PAID FOR differently from the way we do it back in the States, but saying it is "free" here is from some book of fairly tales, and equally realistic.

As for all those happy countries, assuming anyone can get their brain wrapped around a language like Finnish (just try!), take a trip there some time. Swedish, the other official language, and one I speak well, is surprisingly confined to a few areas. Except for Russia, I have never seen a country with such prevalent alcoholism as Finland. In Denmark, they complain a lot, but I wouldn't call them unhappy, and at least I can make heads or tails of the language (not overly dissimilar from Swedish), so I could communicate with the locals. Most know English, but it's always better to find out what's on their minds in their own language. Finland can be a rather melancholy place. I was there for a week, from Turku to Helsinki to Jyväskylä to Kuopio, and had no burning desire to stick around.

[betsuni]

62. +1

[TygrBright]

57. That's because the GOP has been working diligently to dismantle it since the 1960s. n/t

[honest.abe]

58. My kid just finished kindergarten and I feel it was incredible.

I was amazed how much they are teaching kids at the K level. Reading, math, laptop skills, etc.

We are in PG county MD.