I think the decision against affirmative action bodes ill for reparations

[Model35mech]

Reparations will be an attempt to make a positive difference to correct historic wrongs. Which is to say an affirmative action. I doubt if that comparison (as incorrect as it may be) will go unnoticed

It seems that sort of terribly simplistic view is exactly the sort of simplicity that would appeal to conservatives under the research of Jost et al. on cognitive motivations of conservatives. Conservative SCOTUS is affirming most of Jost's et al.'s findings.

It seems the road to racial justice has just been pointed up a hill, how long it takes for the arc in the terrain (sensu MLKjr) to flatten that challenge remains an unknown.

[Autumn]

1. Reparations are not going to happen.

[Model35mech]

2. Or if they do, they will most certainly face court challenges

I'm not completely convinced reparations can't and won't happen.

I am convinced that reparations will be an issue that more deeply divides the political parties

[Effete Snob]

6. Divide which political parties?

Identify the political party which has this as part of its platform?

It certainly is something that people bring up with no connection to any actual legislation or definite program proposal.


So, let's be specific. Which parties and federal candidates for office have proposed anything definite that you believe is likely to pass a majority legislative vote and then be challenged in court?

[Model35mech]

8. Well, the republicans will certainly distance themselves from democrats

using this issue.

There may be other organized conservative parties I am unaware of that will support the position.

I don't think Dems will endorse this position at all, but rather will identify as opponents to it.

The result is more pressure on the wedge that divides these 2 parties.

[Effete Snob]

9. Yes, they also distance themselves from Democrats drinking abducted child hormones

But the fact remains that you have not identified anything that is actually "real" in terms of a divide between the parties on an issue.

What you have identified is a red herring that is used by shit-stirrers to stir shit.

[Model35mech]

11. What I identified is a parallel between reparations and affirmative action

What I suggest, and suggestion is almost every reaction to 'news' on DU, is that because of the way that Jost et al characterized conservative thinking, this will be a polarizing issue that will manifest itself in the construction of the barriers between parties that are conservative and liberal.

Read what I say, then do the oppo research before you try to stir a word salad against me.

[Demsrule86]

22. He is right...it won't happen and could hurt us politically. It is not popular. I think that is un

unfortunate but that is our reality.

[Happy Hoosier]

10. Direct reparations were never going to happen anyway. NT

[Model35mech]

13. That's an opinion on an unknown future, but I suspect

that even if indirect, any reparations that can be characterized as an "affirmative action" will face opposition facilitated by today's supreme court decision.

It's going to become very difficult for government to advance special treatment of any one political identity

[bucolic_frolic]

3. education and access to capital are an alternative to reparations

All 3 are diminished by this ruling.

[Model35mech]

5. Yes, I fully agree

[Initech]

4. This ruling was definitely made in favor of the right wing white wing.

And the white supremacists that voted for Fuckhead 45 can all go get royally fucked.

[Model35mech]

7. Right wingers, yes, but I think it facilitates arguments of more than whites

The very large white majority in this country pretty much guarantees that this decision will reduce competition for admissions for whites.

But, I can tell you from having served on admissions committees at several universities, there are a number of minority identities that end up over-represented in college admissions. Those groups will now be liberated from considerations other than 'objective' merit.

In the case of admissions at Harvard, for example, Asians were vocally opposed to affirmative action and brought court cases to stop it.

[roamer65]

12. The result of this ruling will be many more Asian and South Asian students.

The amount of whites will go into decline, espeically white men. In the very long term, it does not benefit whites…if admissions is done purely on merit.

[Model35mech]

14. I think it will mean asymmetrical addmissions for the "high-performing"

Although I am reserved to the point of skepticism about the ability of educational institutions to measure meaningful "merit" and the basis upon which it can be assessed.

Mostly this particular difference will be noted at 'elite' institutions that have high applications from prospective students who on the basis of objective measure seem to be very well qualified.

[Yavin4]

19. And if that happens, the "elite" schools will no longer be "elite".

By "elite", I don't mean academically. By "elite", I mean access to super rich, powerful families. Legacy admissions gives them access to these families. Without it, there goes the networks.

[Model35mech]

27. Well, it means admistions will succeed for those with elite merit

For many socioeconomic reasons students who do well on such considerations often come from the upper third of Americans.

Those students have educated/professional parents who have resources not only to assist with educational support but who also can provide access to enrichment of the students background

I can tell you from having served on admissions committees that these 'enrichments' do indeed significantly impact admissions of many students. Institutions want choirs, orchestras, foreign language speakers, athletes etc. Well to do families give their kids an advantage (though it is not always taken by rebellions children and I am sure hundreds of anecdotes can be made in that direction)

[Mr.Bill]

37. That is pretty much what happened

in California state colleges since affirmative action was banned there in 1996.

[Yavin4]

15. There is a way to construct a reparations plan that could win a majority of political support

Direct cash payments is simply not possible since you cannot trace everyone's lineage back to slavery, and there will be tremendous backlash against it.


However, you could have something like granting HCBUs federal money that will make admissions either very low cost or free to African Americans. Something like that could win a majority of support.

[JustAnotherGen]

20. See mine below

Zero cash payments.

Its what I prefer - and it deals with Jim Crow - easy to identify descendants.

[Demsrule86]

26. I don't think so...

[Yavin4]

28. Care to expand?

There are historical precedents of the govt granting land for academic study. This would be similar.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. It depends on how Reparations are meted out

A 36 year tax credit if you, your parent, or grandparents were alive in America and black on the census
between 1932 and 1968 allows no cash payments. It clearly identifies who is eligible, has a workable solution for identifying recipients, and touches those impacted by Jim Crow and the New Deal (red lining as an example). It can't be means tested - just a simple 3-5% descendants tax credit for 36 years. I'm 50 and have no children - my credit would sunset when I die.

Pretty simple solution which would put more money in black parents' pockets for tutors, SAT prep, etc etc

[Demsrule86]

18. It won't ever happen.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. I said

The same thing about Obama and Harris.

I also had a lot of white women who voted for Trump tell me "oh Trump won't touch abortion".


I have faith in generation Z - and it would offset Student loan forgiveness.

[Demsrule86]

24. Apples and oranges my friend. There is no way to do this fairly...and no one would be happy. It

is also vastly unpopular.

[JustAnotherGen]

34. No its not

The Democratic Party did it to us with the Raw Deal - its on my fellow Democratic Part members to own it - and work with me to fix it.

I'm sick of my money going to ungrateful white people who are laughing about this ruling. On top of the SALT Cap - SCOTUS is telling me black kids are less than.

I'm cheating on my taxes this year.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. Also - I just told you how to do it fairly

1932 - 1968 - New Deal Years (36) and the supposed end of Red Lining.

My dad and grandparents were on the census as black in 1940, 50, and 60.

Its not about slavery - its about Jim Crow. And Jim Crow was everywhere- in particular after WW 2.
If the the Census isn't a good way to find out who was black in those three years -

Then why do we have it?

[Model35mech]

23. "Won't Ever" is a very very long time in political life

However, it IS often invoked when making an argument that something cannot happen within the current window of political opportunity.

attempting to create a feeling of hopelessness in the opposition is a classic feature of political argument that seeks to enable what "Won't Ever Happen" to truly not happen while opposition's rhetoric still echoes.

[Demsrule86]

25. Oh please let's be real here. I do not say it would not be a good thing. But given the lack

of public support, we would lose every election for a decade if we tried this. It will not happen.

[Model35mech]

29. Well it could be that current Overton window for this could be closed

for a decade, or even more.

But windows of political opportunity can be opened or even smashed.

None of us really knows the future. No matter of our absolute certainty

[JustAnotherGen]

36. Thank you

I'm A professional black woman and MANY in my circle are of the same economic status.

A tax credit reparation is very popular among us . . . black female Democratics.

You know - the base.

[Model35mech]

38. I want to keep hope about this issue alive

even while I know it will be challenging.

[Demsrule86]

17. Reparations will not happen.

[Model35mech]

30. Repetition does not strengthen an argument.

Readers of this thread should well understand your position, but will have rather less grasp of your reasoning.

[Hekate]

31. Ya think? This SCOTUS is the fever-dream of those who replaced Thurgood Marshall with C Thomas

By the time they replaced Ruth Bader Ginsberg with The Handmaid, their work was almost complete — to throw away every sign of progress, going back well over a century. A world where everyone knows their place, by God.

[Model35mech]

32. Yes, it's been a decades long project of the Federalist Society

particularly under the leadership of Leonard Leo.

They've created a SCOTUS dominated by radically conservative catholics. Although for most of the last century people were concerned about Jews on the court. No one was on guard against that influence of Opus Dei and other radically catholic ideologues. People were more fearful of evangelical protestants

Now we find ourselves waking up to the reality that all but one of the few 'protestants' (once dominant on the Court) actually have personal histories within the roman catholicism, and all the conservative justices hold strong (when not radical) religious beliefs.

But this too shall pass. But first the nation, in particular the US Senate, must see the problem that has been created: a judicial court philosophy that places service to the rules and beliefs of religious institutions ahead of the laws and the needs of the People of the nation.

Likely something that won't be rectified in my remaining life.

[Hekate]

33. Took a long time for us to get into this hole, & with all the dirt being shoveled on top of us...

… it will take a long time for us to dig ourselves out.

Like you, I doubt I will live long enough to see it rectified. I’m just an old Liberal, and feeling more than a mite discouraged today.

Joe Biden said something in his shirt speech just now that I’ll hang on to: “This will not break us.”