WE'RE LOSING THE WATER WE NEED TO SURVIVE

[Fresh Water Falling]

When I'm watching a news report about the calving of an ice sheet into the ocean, it enrages me no end when the reporters talk only about sea level rise! Yeah, sea level rise is a problem, a big one, in fact. But what almost nobody talks about is that, when freshwater ice goes into the ocean, it gradually melts, and its water becomes salty, therefore undrinkable.

Desalination technology doesn't come close to replacing the lost potable, and it requires massive amounts of energy to achieve even those meager results.

That's all I have to say for now, but I WILL be posting on this issue again.

[roamer65]

1. Eventually the only major sources left will be the Great Lakes and Lake Baikal.

[peppertree]

7. And the Guarani Aquifer - hence the Bushes' purchase of 100,000 acres in 2006

This land - in remote, landlocked Paraguay - is nearly-worthless scrubland, but for one detail: it sits on some of the best (and most thinly-populated) points of access to the Guaraní Aquifer.

The world's third-largest freshwater aquifer, and one of its most-easily accessed.

You're right, though. What we were taught in school was (like so many other things) wrong: It's not running out of food we have to worry about - but fresh water.

[markodochartaigh]

21. And T Boone Pickens

was buying up water rights by the hundreds of thousands of acres in Texas in the 90's.

[peppertree]

35. That's right - another vulture

I remember hearing that when his investments went south in '86 (Pickens had gone all in, thinking the "Reagan boom" would last forever), people in Texas gave him a nickname he came to hate:

Slim Pickens.

[markodochartaigh]

41. In 10th grade I was in the same class

with T Boone's son, ironically "Environmental Health Science" the first year that it was taught. I had absolutely no idea who he was. We didn't get along. Looking back it seems so strange that T Boone didn't send him to a better school. I think that it has much more to do with a disdain for education than any faux populism. I transferred to a different school the next year. Looking online I found that about one fifth of our class didn't make it to 65.

[peppertree]

45. Interesting anecdote. Thanks for sharing.

T. Boone always seemed like someone with a chip on his shoulder - an issue he seems to have passed on to his son, from what you mentioned. Oh, well.

I can't say I grew up with anyone famous. One of my classmates did go on to be a Wall Street type, and is now in high-end commercial real-estate I believe.

He's been, of all of us, the most successful - and he was one of the quietest (and nicest) people in my class. I'm glad he did well.

[shrike3]

31. Thanks, I was trying to remember which water source the Bushes bought access to.

[peppertree]

36. You're welcome.

Bush even tried to set up a military base near that property - a move slowed down by locals once they caught wind of it, and ultimately nixed by Obama once Bush left office.

That said, they know what's coming - as do their pals the Saudis.

Why the greasy bastards are still being allowed to suck Arizona dry, is beyond me.

[erronis]

13. And we can see what happened to another "great lake" - the Aral Sea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea

Only 50 years of autocrats extracting what they could before it was another dry hole in the planet.

Expect the same for Baikal and perhaps for other great lakes. Of course many of these were not around several eons ago and were created by geological and climactic forces. Those forces will take care of this puny humankind, also.

[Igel]

25. Yup. A great Soviet achievement.

Thanks Stalin, Khrushchov, Brezhnev, etc.

[Xolodno]

38. And Lake Baikal is in Russia.

Always wanted to visit it. Figured it would be on my second trip to Russia after I did my first. We had plans to go to Moscow, Vladmir, Suzdal and St. Petersburg. Then visit Paris again for a week after Covid. But, war breaks out and going to Russia becomes practically impossible. Could still fly through other countries to get there, but I probably wouldn't even be given a Visa. And my bank cards would be useless, I'd have to acquire a lot of cash Rubles.

So Egypt it is this year. Japan or China will probably be next, but the way things are going, not even sure about China.

[moonscape]

49. Envy you Egypt. Is a bucket list

item I’ll not realize.

[Lovie777]

2. The poles use to help control the temperature of the oceans.............

the oceans are getting warmer.

[housecat]

3. must find a fast and affordable way to desalinate

[FalloutShelter]

4. And we're still washing our garbage for recycle thinking

we are helping.

The whole system is a do-over.

[pandr32]

17. + infinity

[H2O Man]

5. Recommended.

Thank you. We need to have serious discussions about the environment. Without serious changes, the other issues will not matter.

[Bumbles]

29. I have been saying this to whomever will listen for decades.

All the other issues are irrelevant. Someday, too late, we will recognize that, even those on the far right, the deniers. I fear we've hit the tipping point. Perhaps being eighty years old isn't such a bad thing.

[H2O Man]

34. I worked with

Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman for decades. I was his top assistant on both environmental issues, and burial protection & repatriation. Knowing the Onondaga Council of Chiefs, the Iroquois Confederacy Council of Chiefs, and the Clan Mothers, I often thought that if more people were exposed to their teachings, we'd be in much better shape. That would include electing to represent us people who are not in the pocket of corporations.

My brother recently retired from his job at a university on the western coast. He often had lunch with the environmental professors. They told him that Americans generally have no idea what is coming our way.

I'm old, too. But my four children grew up with Paul as their third grandfather. I can still do a part, but it is in their hands now. My generation has failed them.

[hay rick]

39. Environmental catastrophe can destroy our democracy.

The current edition of American democracy is proving itself unfit to solve our environmental challenges. You can love our constitution (and the rights it enshrines) but if it starts to look like an impediment to human survival it will be discarded.

[H2O Man]

46. I remembr years ago

talking with Onondaga Faithkeeper Oren Lyons about the visions of Handsome Lake in 1798. Oren said that in a short time, clean water would become more valuable than oil. We are seeing this starting today. Far too few people understand that when corporations "own" water, there is no democracy.

[Hieronymus Phact]

6. Not only that

The melting freshwater is changing the pH balance of the ocean. That will have bad effects on the fish.

[Otto_Harper]

14. That's not a big deal. Its not like you could eat fish or anything. (NT)

[Hugh_Lebowski]

15. Not to the degree that increased CO2 in the atmosphere is (nt)

[markodochartaigh]

20. CO2 is acidifying the ocean, very rapidly in fact.

Coral reefs are the nurseries for many of the food fishes for coastal communities. Ocean acidification is a serious problem


https://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/feature/ocean-acidification-is-no-big-deal-right/

[orleans]

8. agree agree agree

i hate to say this but i really can not stand to hear news about our environment & climate

i am absolutely furious and heartbroken.

i tried and tried and tried to do the right things that would help this planet. as it turns out, my contribution for the past 40 years means absolutely nothing.

it was up to the big corporations and governments all along. and they've been selling their souls for money money money

[Mr.Bill]

11. It's no coincidence that we are the only beings on this planet

to invent and use money, and we are the beings most likely to destroy the planet.

[Kaleva]

18. You personally can work to adapt to what's coming

That's doable and is what I'm concentrating on.

[erronis]

9. I totally agree with your concerns, but we're not currently using the ice sheets as a major source

of freshwater. We are using the crumbling remnants of glaciers, especially in the Himalayas and Tibetan Plain - and, of course, they are diminishing too.

Just like the freshwater aquifers.

And as these aquifers diminish, brackish water from the seas will eventually seep in, creating salt wells/domes, that will be mined by some civilization in 3 million years to continue the cycle. (I plugged in 3 million - more likely 10-100 times that.)

[Caribbeans]

10. The Surprising Amount Of Water It Takes To Produce A Pound Of Beef

The Surprising Amount Of Water It Takes To Produce A Pound Of Beef

TastingTable.com | CLAIRE REDDEN | APRIL 13, 2022

In the early 2000s, Arjen Hoekstra created the water footprint concept. Similar to a carbon or ecological footprint, a water footprint measures the amount of water used in any process or activity. The results are staggering when accounting for the agricultural, packaging, and shipping operations involved in providing the food we consume. As it turns out, a surprising amount of water is used to get food from the farms to our tables — the most prominent water consumer being beef.

Because cattle come with mouths to feed, the production process of beef and other animal products tends to require more water than fruits and vegetables. Denver Water says a beef cow consumes thousands of pounds of grass, corn, and soybeans in its lifetime — and water is an essential resource to support all of these crops. That explains why the water footprint of meat from beef cattle is much larger than the footprint of meat from other, smaller animals.

...Whether industrial or pasture-raised, one pound of beef takes an average of 2,000 gallons of water to produce (though that water footprint is "greener" for pasture-raised cows because it incorporates the natural cycle of rainfall). To compare, Foodtank says that one pound of pork takes 718 gallons, while soybeans only take 206. These numbers show the resource-intensive state of the current beef supply system, which is only projected to grow along with the human population. But by acknowledging the amount of water the beef cattle industry consumes, we can begin to take sustainable steps forward...more
https://www.tastingtable.com/830861/the-surprising-amount-of-water-it-takes-to-produce-a-pound-of-beef/



Happy Barbecue!

FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN DESALINATION

There are around 21,000 (TWENTY-ONE THOUSAND!) desalination plants operating NOW around the world. There are maybe 2 or 3 in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination

[JudyM]

28. This needs to be talked about.

Here’s hoping that that lab-created meat that was approved last month catches on.

[Duppers]

37. Stopped eating beef 4 decades ago, for many reasons.

And persuaded hubby to mostly give it up.

Unfortunately I couldn't persuade my thirty-something yr old son (my only child), tho I still request he not eat it in front of me.

Not just for ecological reasons but for the fact I love cows.(Grew up on a dairy/tobacco farm where I became attached to the baby calves.)

I even feed my dog mostly chicken.

I'm very concerned & sad that we're killing so much of the environment.

[NickB79]

48. Unfortunately, virtually all desal plants globally run on fossil fuels

The largest ones, especially in the Middle East, are typically cogeneration plants fueled by natural gas.

Even when they're grid-powered, the local grids are largely fossil-fueled pretty much everywhere desalinization plants exist.

[swong19104]

12. The ice turns into salty water

so it goes from one undrinkable state (ice sheets) into another undrinkable state (salty water). We neither gained nor lost any drinkable water.

And desalination technology is improving. I believe Israel and several other nations in the Middle East have functional desalination plants that supply a good amount of their water. The cost will come down since the technology isn't that novel or difficult to manufacture or operate.

Another way is to reduce consumption as well as recycle waste water. The greater Las Vegas metropolitan area, plus all the tourists that come through, has a population of about 3M, but they have used less and less of their share of the Colorado River water over the past decade or so.

Get rid of lawns, golf courses, and standard industrialized farming/ranching. Find alternative means for cleaning cars (or get rid of cars altogether, as they're a major factor in greenhouse gases causing climate change that affect the drinkable water supply).

[Model35mech]

16. roughly 450,000 cubic kilometers of water evaporate from the ocean/yr

Sorry I edited that number... it was per day.

All that evaporated stuff is FRESH.

Now not all that water will fall as precipitation on land. But very large amounts of that freshwater do end up on land. And that is especially true if prevailing ocean wind rises over mountains as they blow onto land. Hurricanes also transport large amounts of freshwater onto land. Most of that water is from ocean evaporation.

The estimate for water falling on the planet as precip is estimated to be 505,000 cubic kilometres per yr., but that estimate includes several recyclings of evaporated water. And that evaporated water includes water evaporated over land, and water that is transpired by plants, so the part that is evaporated ocean is smaller than the total, but it's undoubtedly large.

None of these processes require any fancy desalination technology.

[Hortensis]

24. Right. Plus, water is not destroyed in these cycles, but

continues to be water.

Here's to incredible miracles.

[Model35mech]

30. Truly wonderful things.

[Zeitghost]

19. I don't think the ice sheets at the poles

Are a source of drinking water.

It's horrible that they are melting, but I don't think it's direct ramifications on drinking water will be a problem.

[Model35mech]

23. The drinkable reservoirs of water that are really being lost is ground water

Some of it is ancient and referred to a fossil water. Those deep deep aquifers recharge very slowly

Some states depend heavily on wells for municipal water, others depend on "surface water" from rivers, lakes and reservoirs.

Most of that water in the Midwest gets "used" and reused very many times before it gets to the Gulf of Mexico. If you live in a place that uses surface water chances are very good it's been through dozens of toilets and water treatment plants.

[hay rick]

40. Bingo.

I live in Florida. Our aquifers are being rapidly depleted. In addition to over-pumping, the aquifers are beset by sea level rise, salt water intrusion, and subsidence. The aquifers are also heavily used for irrigation water during dry months- supporting monoculture export crops-especially sugar cane.

[flamingdem]

55. Ugh. Sugarcane

Is there anyway to get rid of those polluters? I didn't know they're draining the aquifer as well.

[markodochartaigh]

43. The problem with the melting Artic ice cap

is that white ice reflects heat, dark seawater absorbs heat. When the BOE (blue ocean event) occurs it will be the equivalent of adding a trillion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere.

https://scripps.ucsd.edu/news/research-highlight-loss-arctics-reflective-sea-ice-will-advance-global-warming-25-years

[Zeitghost]

47. Yes, there are many problems with the melting poles

I just don't think drinking water is one of them.

[niyad]

22. Welcome to our DU family.

[Fresh Water Falling]

53. Niyad

I know that name! It's mythologiical, isn't it??? Goddammit I can't dredge it up!

[niyad]

54. Original spelling-naiad, a Greek water spirit.

[Warpy]

26. Glaciers disappearing on land are the problem

since yearly melt supplies a lot of fresh water to countries like Pakistan and India. A lot of other surface water not fed by glaciers seems to be drying up, also, and this was planet wide last year due to a persistent La Nina pattern.

I'm afraid people whose lifespan is going to be considerably longer than mine now is will be living in very interesting times.

[LiberalFighter]

27. Too many people on the planet.

[roamer65]

50. 8 billion is TOO MANY.

[Duppers]

32. I've been posting about The #1 Issue the world is facing...

Global Warming/ Climate Change.

It's been unpopular here.

[RainCaster]

33. I worry about my aquifer going down

I'm in the country, on my own well. When the aquifer I'm on goes dry, I will be left with some very expensive choices.

I wish there was a way I could keep track of the water level in my well. I'd like to know ahead of time when I'm going to run out.

[NowISeetheLight]

42. Waste

Here in the Palm Springs Coachella Valley, I've seen good and bad. LaQuinta city leaders voted down a wave park.

https://www.waternewsnetwork.com/proposed-surf-park-in-california-desert-is-rejected-by-la-quinta-city-council/

Meanwhile, Rancho Mirage approved a Disney gated community "Cotino" with a 28-acre lagoon. They used a 2017 water analysis. DROUGHT?????

https://www.desertsun.com/story/opinion/contributors/valley-voice/2023/01/30/rancho-mirages-cotino-project-is-using-water-analysis-from-2017/69838263007/

This is the DESERT. The ocean is three hours away. I have cactus and agave in my front yard... and rocks. No grass. IT'S THE DESERT.

We have a decent aquifer here in the valley, but it's not forever. I'm just so disgusted at the waste of water.

[calimary]

44. Glad you're posting about this stuff.

You’ll get much more receptive readers here, and some of us can use the “ammo” in conversation and discussions. Hopefully as we do, perhaps the facts and reality will spread, and we’ll reach a few minds. Make it an ongoing project!

[intelpug]

51. Fresh water

I get where your coming from as far as sea level rise go's and maybe I am wrong but how are we losing Potable water? I mean water locked up in a glacier wasn't accessible anyway. To my understanding it did not evaporate to any extent and add to freshwater supplies, I can see how it's bad for cold regions to turn warm and mess with the weather but it seems that the water in them was in an inaccessible unusable form anyway. How do glaciers contribute to potable water?

[Progressive dog]

52. There is a thing called the water cycle

and the speed of the cycle increases with temperature. All our fresh water has passed through that cycle since the oceans have existed for almost four billion years. The water cycle provides an average of almost forty inches a year of fresh water in the part of New York where I live.
Also, the oceans average 2.3 miles deep according to NOAA. If all the glaciers melt, the USGS estimates a sea level rise of approximately 230 feet (about 100 ft per mile or 2%). Hardly enough to substantially dilute sea water. We do know that the salinity in the oceans has changed . The percent of salt in our blood is about 9 parts per thousand vs the 34 parts per thousand in ocean water today.

Think of the ocean as a soup that contains nearly every element present in Earth’s crust and atmosphere. The prehistoric seas must have been only slightly salty, but over thousands of years, rain has slowly eroded the rocks that make up Earth’s crust.

You see, water is a powerful solvent and can dissolve more substances than almost any other liquid. The dissolved minerals and salts from these rocks are carried by streams and rivers to the ocean. It’s estimated that these streams and rivers carry about 4 billion tons of dissolved salts to the ocean annually. Volcanoes and hydrothermal vents also contribute along with glaciers that slowly grind the earth.

https://hanfordsentinel.com/news/local/oceans-salinity-is-in-constant-flux/article_5ad2862a-c444-52a7-b7fe-c1401c1a8061.html

We are already draining aquifers so much that the ground is sinking

On America’s high plains, crops in early summer stretch to the horizon: field after verdant field of corn, sorghum, soybeans, wheat and cotton. Framed by immense skies now blue, now scarlet-streaked, this 800-mile expanse of agriculture looks like it could go on forever.

It can’t.

The Ogallala Aquifer, the vast underground reservoir that gives life to these fields, is disappearing. In some places, the groundwater is already gone. This is the breadbasket of America—the region that supplies at least one fifth of the total annual U.S. agricultural harvest. If the aquifer goes dry, more than $20 billion worth of food and fiber will vanish from the world’s markets. And scientists say it will take natural processes 6,000 years to refill the reservoir.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-ogallala-aquifer/

These problems will not go away if we stop burning fossil fuels. We have no realistic way to solve them.