Dealing with mental illness: Two steps forward, one step back for a lifetime because we deserve it

[AZLD4Candidate]

Yes, I have been very open about myself on this website.

It started when my wife was denied entry into the country because of whatever reason CBP invented at SEATAC. It continued with my struggles to get my wife her green card and the fact I had to give up teaching in the US and my attempted run for AZ House because I couldn't bare dealing with being separated anymore because of the US Government.

It dictated how all of that broke me emotionally and psychologically and I suffered a suicidal nervous breakdown because of it. I am bipolar (severely). I am Asperger's. I have body dysmorphic disorder after being called fat, ugly, and disgusted by most EVERYONE I have come in contact with, including family. I suffer from extreme PTSD from childhood abuse, intensity bullying, anti-Jewish violence, and workplace bullying/abuse.

I have stated many times when there is a mass shooting that being an asshole isn't a mental illness. Mentally ill people normally direct their trauma inward and attack themselves. The most common:

1: Bipolar - we are crap in our own eyes and the only way we can deal with how low we are is to abuse ourselves because we deserve it.

2: Borderline - our personality was stolen from us before we developed it so we attach ourselves to whomever says they love us even if it destroys us, then we will push you away and hope you will stay but we know we deserve to be hurt and abandoned because we deserve it.

3: PTSD - we can't process the trauma we've encountered, so we abuse ourselves because we deserve it.

4: Eating disorders - we can't process the trauma we've encountered, so we take it out on our bodies because we deserve it.

5: OCD - we can't process the trauma we've encountered, so we isolate ourselves and push people away because we deserve it.

We are substance abusers because it's an escape. We end our lives because it's an escape for those we know we are destroying.

And we deserve it. After all, according to society, all we need to do is get over it, grow up, get help, and we'll be fine. It doesn't work that way. We are always fighting that monster in our heads that controls us. We hear it louder than anything else. We hear that monster's words and ideas louder because it's how we see ourselves when we look in a mirror.

Compliments are fake. They aren't real. The monster told us that and we listen. Praise is just a way to set you up for failure. The monster tells us that and we listen. The monster controls us. I know in our world of "free will" and "you decide for yourself" that society rejects this idea, but as someone who has bipolar run in his family, as someone who has attempted suicide a few times, as someone who has pushed almost everyone out of his life because he doesn't deserve happiness, I am here to tell you that free will doesn't exist in mental illness.

The monster says it, we believe it. The monster controls us, we do it. Medication, therapy. . .all wonderful, but to be honest, it doesn't do much. The monster is still there because mental illness is just that. . .mental. We don't know anything about it. Medication either stabilizes you, makes you a zombie, or deals with symptoms, not the cause or root. It's like cold medication. No cold medicine cures the cold, it just deals with the "cold symptoms."

As I write this, I feel myself sinking into another depressive episode. I feel it coming on. I feel the anger. I feel the hopelessness. I see the darkness growing. I am on medication, but it isn't stopping it. I am on cymbalta, paxil, trazodone, and ativain.

Mental illness isn't about "getting help." It's so much more. But thanks to how we treat mental illness in the world, we are looked at in the simplest, easiest ways possible:

1: you like feeling this way because you're used to it.
2: you want to feel this way because you just want sympathy
3: you refuse to get over it because you're weak
4: you just want drama in your life because you feed off it
5: you are a man. act like one.
6: you don't have a problem. you are the problem
7: you're too much negativity. go away until you can put a smile on my face
8: you're an adult. deal with it like an adult will.
9: shut up and suck it up. everyone has problems.

So, next time someone claims mental illness when someone does something horrific, remember that those of us with mental illness destroy ourselves.

As I write this, the darkness is growing. I feel there is no escape. The monster has control now. And it's telling me how to think and feel. And it tells me I deserve it all.

[Walleye]

1. You do not deserve pain and misery, I can tell by your writing that you are a thoughtful considerate

Person. I know the monster, impossible to ignore, but the fact that you care shows that you deserve nothing but a good life. Try and shrink the monster until you can hardly hear it. I do know how you feel

[intrepidity]

2. Very well articulated.

I can't disagree with any of it.

[Joinfortmill]

3. I remember depression well...

That, alone, almost killed me. I wish I could help you. I did pray for you.

[berniesandersmittens]

4. Logged to to rec

As someone who copes with mental illness I understand.

Sometimes it's not one day at a time, or even one minute. It's one breath. In. Out. In. Out.

I understand the darkness you speak of.

Take care of yourself. You DO deserve to be happy. If not happy, then not miserable. So do I.

[Kaleva]

5. A big problem with mental illness is that the mentally ill dictate the treatment

I've been dealing with this for close to 20 years and it's a challenge

It can be a quandary when an ill person cannot recognize the situation they are in and all they learned from years of both in patient and out patient treatment and what others say to them during the episode goes out the window. .

The best I can do is to keep the person alive and put up with the verbal and sometimes physical abuse until this passes

[OldBaldy1701E]

9. I can tell you I wish that had been the case with the many times I sought help. It wasn't.

I especially remember the time I got into it with one counselor because I told him that anything that has withdrawal symptoms is addictive by nature. He swore that was not the case with SSIDs. We now know that it is, and I wish I had been around to scream it into that guy's face when that report came out. Just because you have a degree does not mean you know it all. And, just because you don't does not mean you know nothing about the topic. (A phrase that gets proven more and more every single day of my life).

Also, I apologise for the abuses you have received from people like me. No one should have to suffer the ancillaries of an illness like this.

[Kaleva]

11. I understand it's an illness

No different then someone suffering from cancer and in pain. Such a person lashing out is understandable.

[DenaliDemocrat]

6. As someone who lived with a bi-polar for 20 years

No. She was the most self-centered person I have ever known with grandiosity and an expectation fir accolades she did not earn. She was horrible to her parents, her siblings, and now - her children.

Your experience is not everyone’s

[AZLD4Candidate]

7. Yet, I use the word "normally." Exceptions to the rule are NOT the rule.

[DenaliDemocrat]

15. I don't believe what you describe is "normal"

I was in group therapy with lots of people living with bi-polar people. What I describe is normal. Bi-polar people are difficult to live with. All of us read a book called “Stop Walking on Eggshells” about forcing bi-polar loved ones to be accountable for their own behavior, stop tolerating the lies, not allow their shitty behavior which is often manipulative.

[AZLD4Candidate]

16. Well, you have your opinion. I have medical science.

[BlackSkimmer]

18. I wish I'd had that book years ago.

Reading this post and your other, I'm certain my sister is bi-polar.

You have described her lifelong behavior perfectly.

[Oopsie Daisy]

35. Thank you. The lies and manipulative behavior are difficult to tolerate.

I've had to put up with the suicidal ideaton and veiled threats will always work when attention is desired, only to be dismissed as "I was having a bad day" and "I didn't mean it" and "I'd never do anything like that". Blaming others for impulsive and reckless decisions (especially things related to finances, relationships, and other risky behavior.) Then there's the non-suicidal self-harm and rage and irrational rage and anger. And don't get me started about the alcohol abuse and other self-medicating behaviors.

I'll look for that book. Thanks for recommending it.

FOUND IT! SHORT AMAZON LINK: https://tinyurl.com/275y8vz4

https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1684036895/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=stop+walking+on+eggshells&qid=1692012741&sr=8-1

[yardwork]

38. That book is about people with Borderline Personality Disorder.

[DenaliDemocrat]

48. Bi-Polar almost always has a co-morbidity

And Cluster B/substance abuse are most common

The book applied…

[DenaliDemocrat]

49. Bi-Polar almost always has a co-morbidity

And Cluster B/substance abuse are most common

The book applied…

[yardwork]

39. Do you mean Borderline Personality Disorder instead of Bi-Polar?

[DenaliDemocrat]

45. She is bi-polar

And co-morbidity of narcissistic/histrionic personality disorder. She was in residential treatment for two and a half years because when manic - she was dangerous to herself and others around her.

According to her therapists - bi-polar rarely exists as a stand alone disorder and is usually accompanied with a cluster B co-morbidity.

Honestly, I don’t know. It was the worst time in my life. I almost went bankrupt taking care of all of the expenses, the other children suffered, and as soon as she was out - she quit taking her meds and refused to go to therapy. See, she LIKES the manic episodes. However when you come home to a bunch of junkies doing crack and meth…

She may be ill, but she’s a horrible and dangerous person. I have no contact and don’t plan to unless she is medicated and in weekly therapy with an honest to God psychologist (not a counselor) and under a psychiatrist’s supervision.

[yardwork]

46. I'm so sorry.

The reason I asked is that there are people with personality disorders in my extended family. They cause a lot of problems for themselves and others.

It's difficult to create boundaries to protect myself and others.

It sounds like your ex is extremely toxic. I'm so sorry.

[DenaliDemocrat]

47. Not an ex

My oldest daughter.

Like I said - she’s sick. She’s also impossible to live with when she’s unmedicated.

I’m believe bi-polar has co-morbidities like 90% of the time, often in the cluster B.

I may sound harsh going no contact, but I believe alcoholism is a disease as well. I wouldn’t live with an alcoholic who refused treatment either.

Those of us in the group therapy had a lot of similar stories. They all liked the mania and hated the depression. For her, she said it didn’t feel “normal” - hence stopping her medication. However her “normal” basically put her parents and siblings in emotional, physical, and financial danger. You have to put your foot down at some point. It’s hard, but you can’t sacrifice five other people because one person’s “normal” is dangerous.

[OldBaldy1701E]

8. HAH!

These days it is more like no steps forward and a coast to coast train ride backwards. The only 'help' is for the rich and the general idea behind any mental help is perpetual. They don't want to acknowledge mental health as an issue because there is no cure and therefore the wage slaves can claim a disability. That removes another warm body from the machine. We can't have that, now can we?

Also, with respect, being bi-polar means you are on top of the world for one moment, and then down in the depths for the next. A manic depressive is one like myself, who is basically 'meh' for a while and then crashes hard and then eventually climbs backup into 'meh'. There is no joy or excitement in a manic depressive. There is no spark. There is just 'meh' or 'it is all for nothing and I want to die'.

If this nation wants to truly help the population when it comes to mental health, there will have to be some major changes to the very fabric of our society. The past 50-60 years have convinced me that this is not going to happen. So, that does not leave us 'crazy people' much hope. Which is why I want assisted euthanasia to be a thing. Then, those of us who cannot function in this world can opt to check out. "Why, that would open the gates to all kinds of people killing themselves. It would be horrible!" Yes, it would. It might also get this nation off of its greedy asses and trying to come up with some real help for those like me.

[mopinko]

10. pro tip if you have a friend who suffers from mi-

telling them to get help, but offering none, is a slap in the face.
i’ve struggled w depression due to my autoimmune disease. i currently dont speak to my kid sister cuz she has done this a couple times.
there r a million things she could have done over the yrs that wd have actually helped. i even reached out a couple times, only to have it blow up. the same can pretty much be said of all my sibs, but this is the 1 that i have been closest to, and who lives closest.
i’ve done many, many things for her and for them all. they’ve showed up for me zero times.

so what to do? remember that making decisions is hard when things r bad. just do something nice, something basic, like a bag of groceries or a gift card for a decent restaurant. walk their dog. better yet, bathe their dog.
just try to provide them something THEY want, not something u wd want.

or just call or visit, and listen. hold space for them to let some pain out.

but whatever u do, do not declare they need help, then give none.

[Kaleva]

12. Unfortunately, they often reject the help offered

Expecting everyone else to do what they want or behave like they want is unrealistic but they can't understand that while being controlled by the illness

[mopinko]

19. i saw this on fb the other day. it's about grief, but the same cld b said for mi-

it’s about y most offers of help dont get accepted, and how to get around that.

Hi Hugh,
A friend died, and I want to be helpful to his wife, but I’m not sure what to do. I told her that if she needed anything to let me know. Of course, she thanked me, but it’s been a few days now and she hasn’t asked for anything. I don’t think she will. I feel so helpless. What should I do?
[Redacted]
Hey there, [Redacted]. Thanks for writing. I’m really glad your friend has you in her life.
I get it. Grief is a funny thing. It’s the time in our life when we most need help, and also the time when asking for help is so hard. Not because we are ashamed to ask for help, although that happens sometimes too. But mostly because our brain just sort of shuts down.
When my Dad died, I looked functional. But I wasn’t OK. Not at all. And when the news got out, the ton of people flooding me with calls, texts, and DM’s was overwhelming. I really couldn’t function. I sat on the swing in our yard and just stared into space. People called and asked what they could do to help. I had no idea.
“Well, anything you need at all, let me know, OK?”
“OK”.
They hung up. I stared into space some more.
I had no idea what to do. What I needed. I didn’t even know what to ask for.
Then a friend sent a text. This friend had met Dad once but didn’t really know him. But still, she knew I was hurting. I saw who it was and almost put the phone down without reading the text, but I saw the message and it stopped me:
Will you be home at 8:30 tonight?
What’s weird is this friend lives 12 hours away from me.
Yes, I replied.
“K.”
10 minutes later, she said, “Instacart will be there at 8:30. Open the door for them.”
“What?”
“Grief Groceries.”
When Instacart showed up, they put two large bags of groceries on my porch. Frozen pizzas. Ice cream. Oreo cookies. Tinned soup. Stouffer’s lasagna. A gallon of milk. Like that. Things I could heat up if I needed a meal, or pig out on if I needed fat and sugar. Sometimes, you just need to eat half a box of Oreos.
Notice she didn’t ask if I needed any food. I would have said no. She just asked if I would be home.
Grief groceries.
Another friend, who lives out of town, asked Renee to name a restaurant near our house where we like to eat. There is a local chain near our house that is sort of a deli. When we eat supper there, we spend about $25. Renee told her the name of the place.
An hour later, there was a gift card in my inbox for $250. Yes, that is a lot of money, and I understand not everyone can do that. But the wonderful thing was that because it was enough for multiple meals, we didn’t try to save it for “the right time”. We ate there that night, and take out from there several times a week for the next month on nights when I just didn’t have the spoons to cook.
Both of those gift-givers knew something I didn’t know – that when you are grieving, you don’t want to make decisions. No, that’s not quite it: You can’t make decisions. You hit decision fatigue really fast.
So, I guess what I’m saying is, don’t ask grieving people to make big choices or decisions. “How can I help” is a big choice. But “Can I take the kids this afternoon so you can have some time to yourself” is a much smaller one. “Will you be home tonight?” is a small choice. “What restaurant do you like” is a small decision. Just showing up to cut their grass because you noticed it needed cutting is loads better than asking, “Do you want me to cut the grass?” Or, “I’m going to Target. What can I get you while I’m there?” is better than “Can I run any errands for you?”
It won’t always be like this. If you stick around, eventually they will surface and ways to be helpful will make themselves known. But in the first few days, especially, it helps to remove as many decisions from their plate as possible.
Take care,
HH

[Kaleva]

26. Grief and mental illness are not the same thing

The worst of mental illness can come on quickly and take hold. My wife can go from happy and cheerful to suicidal in a few hours. It's rare but has happened enough to where I'm always paying attention to her mood. 24/7. Sometimes a nap is all she needs to get past that. Other times she has had to be admitted for in patient treatment.


A neice recently lost her daughter to suicide. She was seemingly okay the day before her body was discovered the following morning.

[mopinko]

27. of course not. but the problem of not knowing how to help,

and wanting to, is.
that’s my only point. i thought there were some good insights here.

[Kaleva]

32. I think your post provided great insights on helping those in grief.

[mopinko]

33. did u miss the part that i suffer from depression?

and that i thought it was applicable to me? depression and bp are all over my family.
ymmv. it’s different for everyone. but i dont get why this bugs you so.

[Kaleva]

43. Clinical depression cannot be helped by offers of help

"Treatment
Medications and psychotherapy are effective for most people with depression. Your primary care doctor or psychiatrist can prescribe medications to relieve symptoms. However, many people with depression also benefit from seeing a psychiatrist, psychologist or other mental health professional.

If you have severe depression, you may need a hospital stay, or you may need to participate in an outpatient treatment program until your symptoms improve.."

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20356013

In the treatments listed in the above listed article, it states that behaviour modification can help but that is dependent on the person.

"Different types of psychotherapy can be effective for depression, such as cognitive behavioral therapy or interpersonal therapy. Your mental health professional may also recommend other types of therapies. Psychotherapy can help you:

Adjust to a crisis or other current difficulty
Identify negative beliefs and behaviors and replace them with healthy, positive ones
Explore relationships and experiences, and develop positive interactions with others
Find better ways to cope and solve problems
Identify issues that contribute to your depression and change behaviors that make it worse
Regain a sense of satisfaction and control in your life and help ease depression symptoms, such as hopelessness and anger
Learn to set realistic goals for your life
Develop the ability to tolerate and accept distress using healthier behaviors"

[BlackSkimmer]

28. Not at all the same thing.

Thank you.

[Oopsie Daisy]

36. True.

I've observed how someone's circle of friends are whittled down until only the "most loyal" remain. The ones who tolerate (or dismiss) the unhealthy behavior. They'll say "oh, that's just Ken being Ken" and that has the effect of normalizing it and making it acceptable.

[Karadeniz]

13. Jeez, I wish I were a healer.....

[wendyb-NC]

14. Well said

I have dealt with depression, and a bunch of mental health issues, much of my life. I am on medication, counseling, developed coping skills, lifestyle strategies, and adjustments to constructively deal with this chronic mental health problems. Despite this I still encounter the darkness.

I stand firm, though, I have still got things I want to do. Things I have to do. That's a very good thing. I'll send some positive energy to you and a light to beckon you out of the darkness and peril. You deserve an abundance of compassion toward yourself. May you find some beauty to delight and encourage you at the times. Thank you, for posting, you don't this, in any way.

[MAJones]

17. Thank you

Lived this too. Self-loathing is the monsters name. He sleeps in my bed, runs my life and ruins my relationships. I am old though and will soon get away from him. The only real solution.

[twodogsbarking]

20. Not unlike an LSD trip unless you have been there you cannot understand.

Be kind.

[LuckyCharms]

21. One hell of a good post. n/t

[Sympthsical]

22. "cymbalta, paxil, trazodone, and ativain"

I'd question this. That's . . . a lot with a plethora of potential interactions. I side-eyed it as soon as I read it then asked my partner (PharmD). He also side-eyed it. Sounds like doctors just throwing drugs at a problem.

I'd get an outside opinion about that one. That combination may be contributing to some problems. But that's something only a physician who has seen you can determine.

[BlackSkimmer]

23. Yes, I'm no doctor, but that looks to be a troublesome cocktail.

[Sympthsical]

24. I just finished an extensive pharmacology program

That's been more or less my entire life for months. But I don't have the experience to say anything with authority, which is why I asked my partner. All of those drugs are fresh in my mind, with their interactions, all the different mechanisms of action and uses, so I was just kinda tilting my head at it.

He said he'd be fairly concerned about it and want to ask the doctor what's happening with all that. He then had several opinions I won't post here, because they're not helpful, lol. Not about OP, but about doctors and how they prescribe things.

[BlackSkimmer]

25. I've got no background in pharmacology or medicine, but even I was familiar with those drug names.

Because of my work in my career with vulnerable adults, I became very aware of the effect that poorly or overprescribed drugs can have on a person.

People tend to trust what a doctor prescribes for them and rarely do their own research.

[AZLD4Candidate]

30. I think that too. unforunately, that's how mental health works

It isn't about making people better, it's about making people functional and productive.

So, drug them up to deal with symptoms. As my cynical self says, there is no money in cure, but there is a fortune in symptom control.

[Oopsie Daisy]

37. Sound advice.

[BWdem4life]

29. Books help me. nt

[elocs]

31. Since she was 17, my daughter has been diagnosed as schizoaffective: schizophrenia & bipolar.

She will be 32 this month & has lost her entire young adulthood to this vile mental illness.
She has been in one or another mental healthcare facility for over 3 years now, a virtual prisoner who cannot go anywhere on her own. Then a few years ago, the facility she is currently at now managed to have a guardian appointed for her who virtually controls her life. Then after a couple of years, this guardian forced her to sign a no contact agreement where she would have no contact with me, the person she loves & trusts the most. The guardian claims her behavior is worse after she sees me, but correlation is not causation.
Since I have no rights concerning her, they will not even answer my emails about her so I have no idea how she is or even if she is still alive. It's the not knowing that is heartbreaking.

But we are in Wisconsin, one of the top states for mental healthcare in the nation (I believe last year they were #1 in the nation). But she is in the system now and they don't want to let go. She gets $1000/month from SSI from which she is given a $100/month allowance.
I have found a lawyer for her who has worked with her before and he is trying to check things out for me. He said some things to find answers for and should be very easy to discover have been hard which puzzles him and makes him think that things are being covered up.
The sad thing is that she is completely isolated now from family, friends, or loved ones. But she knows that she is in my heart & mind, that I'm still here for her as I've always been.

Her birthday is on the 23rd, a week after mine and we've always separated our birthdays together. I've sent her a cake which I hope she receives. (Ironically, they allow me to send her packages, previously all from Amazon which does not say in the package who sent it. I have sent her things I know she needs, but I have also send things she would know were from me. She also can earn computer privileges. So what does she do when she gets on the computer? Duh! She emails me and we've sent hundreds of emails to one another over the past 3 months. But that has ended now without warning and I've heard nothing for a month now and nobody there will answer my emails. I don't even know if she is even still there.

[mopinko]

34. omg. that's hideous.

mothering a mentally ill child is a special hell. have a bp, and youngest had a dx of ptsd, but turned out to actually have epilepsy.
i have sooo many beefs w modern psyche. it’s still so crude. ppl still blaming moms, or letting their kids blame their mom. which validates the blame. when they were born that way. le sigh.

i hope the lawyer can help you. my kids dont talk to me. i cant tell them how sorry they will b some day. i see so many young ppl who have broken relationships w their parents. for them to try to destroy your relationship, i just cant believe they have her actual interests at heart.
go get em.

a du’er named droopy (tho he changed his handle and i dont remember the new 1.) has the same disorder. dont think he comes here any more, but we’re friends on fb. he got his under control, and is doing amazingly well. if u dig in the archives, he posted in the lounge a lot about his struggles. very good writer. i think he’s trying to get those stories published.

[AZLD4Candidate]

41. I have a broken relationship with my father, but he was abusive even into adulthood

Physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically.

It took me until I was 34 before I realized I needed to cut my losses.

[mopinko]

42. i absolutely understand that.

also understand that the losses remain.
i have a few strained relationships in my family. it’s my choice. but there’s still a hole there.
i think most of us, if we cld wave a magic wand and fix it all, wld jump at the chance.

but it’s just criminal to sever an intact bond. if they feel there’s some harm there, the right thing is to address that.

[yardwork]

40. I'm sorry that you're in so much pain.

[crosinski]

44. I'm bipolar too, and recently went through a depression.

I’m very sorry to hear that you’re going through a depression, and of course you don’t deserve it. There is no worse pain than the mental pain of depression. I take five medications and one of them stopped working. My doctor, who I see monthly, immediately suspected which medication it was, but it still took a month and a half to start feeling better. Do you have a doctor you see regularly? If not, finding one could be crucial for your long term mental health.